Episode 89
FCG089 - Automatic FCPX (feat. Wes Plate)
Automatic Duck was a staple in the FCP7 decade, the definitive tool for moving sequences between applications that were seemingly incompatible. Wes Plate was the force behind that application and between 2011 and 2013 he was a full time employee of Adobe. This past summer he took an epic journey of 7000 miles, 6 weeks. a dozen states and one little application, Final Cut Pro X. On his trip he decided he wanted to find out what everyone was talking about and decided go dig deep into FCPX. This episode is the story of his journey.
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Featuring
- Chris Fenwick
- Wes Plate - @wplate
Transcription
00:00.001: So Automatic Duck was the definitive way of getting a timeline from one application to a seemingly incompatible other application.
00:00.001: I think he signed it R R R Eubelos, but at any rate, I was like, oh, wow, those are like those are people.
00:00.001: Oh, and the other thing too was uh I I wouldn't have if your podcast came in because I used the Alex Alex4D Grow Shrink.
00:00.001: But it's a whole workflow that I've developed in terms of using After Effects and Final Cut 10 together.
00:00.001: I sort of roughed it in there, and now that I'm doing my magical trimming where I'm finessing things, I've decided that I want the sound of that clip.
00:00.080: Final Cut and Avid users who didn't have that Adobe connection.
00:00.080: Premiere is always looking at that file.
00:00.080: Final Fat 10 does all that stuff.
00:00.160: And being able to port it to, say, After Effects in order to do what Premiere now does on the sort of what do they call it, dynamic link.
00:00.160: It was so much easier when we could say the late 90s.
00:00.160: I'm doing okay.
00:00.160: And Danny, I apologize if I have given too many specifics as you have asked me not to.
00:00.160: we just sort of kept that whole attitude of we're real people solving real problems.
00:00.160: I think I've told this story before, but in the early days of Premiere, I was having problems with it.
00:00.160: I'm a bit of a completist.
00:00.160: After Effects work, or I was working with an After Effects artist who I'd provide them with an After Effects project.
00:00.160: and they were trying to get the AAF file or whatever from Express Pro into DS, and none of their transforms or their picture and pictures were coming through, and they were really frustrated.
00:00.160: It had all the picture-in-pictures, the titles came through.
00:00.160: Automatic duck was just taking up all my time.
00:00.160: Now, did you like travel around and do user groups and show it off and demo it and stuff as well?
00:00.160: It was sort of a new thing to do.
00:00.160: I kind of had my own goofy way of doing it and like using software just seemed like extra work.
00:00.160: And I was like, oh, okay, well, let's go start at the beginning.
00:00.160: with that CS6 release.
00:00.160: Automatic Duck and Adobe joining a strategic alliance or strategic partnership, something like that.
00:00.160: Any changes in After Effects to go into my editing system until I'm ready.
00:00.160: From After Effects inside of Premiere with the latest update that just came out, you will have the option to take a dynamically linked comp that, as you said, probably won't be playing back in real time.
00:00.160: For her, for the school.
00:00.160: So all my clips are now three seconds.
00:00.160: They're just, they have too much.
00:00.160: the last time as a professional video editor where you know editing was fun.
00:00.160: We'll like head out on the road, you know, maybe do it for like a you know, it'd probably have to be like a week.
00:00.160: Yep, Adobe Premiere, totally powerful, overkill for my little fun videos.
00:00.160: They are answering many questions over the course of this clip.
00:00.160: The ingest tool that comes with Creative Cloud.
00:00.160: I don't know how I'm going to do that in the final cut 10 words.
00:00.160: or just you know in the range of hours of stuff, I can go back to the bin really easily and find it.
00:00.160: I call that the Fincher.
00:00.160: And there'd be like multiple windows and somehow related.
00:00.160: So yes, you can hover and see time code.
00:00.160: You know, it's like good.
00:00.160: Yeah, and you could do that, right?
00:00.160: It doesn't work the way I want it, oh, yeah, I guess that would work.
00:00.160: and I just don't have time to like turn it on and play with it.
00:00.160: the Chris Fenwick, I don't have automatic ducks, so this is how I solved all my problems.
00:00.160: MatchFrame back into the bin and matchFrame and export a ProRes.
00:00.160: Does make sense for a certain kind of workflow, but I'm also frequently working as an editor in conjunction with
00:00.160: An After Effects artist.
00:00.160: Finder where it says, Yeah, yeah, no, this is being used.
00:00.160: Do some more editing, and then I'll hear the chime in the background.
00:00.160: in Final Cut 10.
00:00.160: But I've but I also find that it takes at least with me and my experience I can assemble something together so quickly in Final Cut 10, I just it blows my mind how fast it makes me, kind of like some of your guests.
00:00.160: you know, having to double-click the audio to so I can drag it out ahead of time.
00:00.160: Are posted both Final Cut Grill and Digital Cinema Cafe and any other shows that we may produce in the near future.
00:00.160: the course of your editorial, you want to see, oh yeah, here comes the sound, blah, blah, blah.
00:00.160: Now if you were paying attention in there, I literally invented an idea.
00:00.160: So, anyway, let me know if that interests you.
00:00.240: I always find it interesting to get somebody's first impressions as they start to learn.
00:00.240: So anyway, that's going to be West Plate.
00:00.240: And one of the things, and I'm just going to say this because it is a known kind of like thorn in your side, and they will freely admit it.
00:00.240: that they were not happy.
00:00.240: But frankly, I would be using them even if they weren't sponsors of the show.
00:00.240: You're the first person that I remember having a conversation about like software companies, right?
00:00.240: Up and it always puts it in the same relative place to the browser window, which is covering part of the browser window.
00:00.240: like even just on the website that I didn't realize about some of the things about their licensing.
00:00.240: How do you even meet this guy?
00:00.240: like very early.
00:00.240: beginning of July and I'm like, Oh my god, I'm way behind Well, it's kind of like a plague.
00:00.240: So l l you mentioned automatic duck and if people don't know, and I probably will mention this in the intro of the show, but um kind of I don't know wanna I don't wanna say claim to fame is this utility that you wrote.
00:00.240: workarounds and I had a pretty good system for rebuilding a time line.
00:00.240: if we could figure out a way to get these OMF files read by After Effects.
00:00.240: A sequence from Final Cut Pro 3, which had just shipped, and bring that into After Effects.
00:00.240: thing that I had kind of forgotten about, but just talking about it reminded me.
00:00.240: And then when Apple shipped Final Cut Pro version 4, I think they called it Final Cut Pro HD, we actually made an import plug in that would allow people to take Avid sequences and import them into Final Cut.
00:00.240: and finishing on a Media Composer or finishing on a symphony.
00:00.240: We were pretty successful, busy until about 2011.
00:00.240: It doesn't seem, and again, I'm totally naive.
00:00.240: Sure.
00:00.240: My dad was in charge of engineering, and there was at one point, I think he had five people working with him when we at one of our busy times.
00:00.240: Right.
00:00.240: I think they I believe they call it like render and replace, which allows you to actually render it because let's face it, a lot of After FX comps won't play in real time.
00:00.240: And so render and replace will leave a QuickTime movie in your timeline, but still give you access to the dynamic link or somehow magically like that.
00:00.240: And instead of going to After Effects and rendering it, you can perform the render there directly inside of Premiere Pro.
00:00.240: Back into the dynamically linked comp, which then you can edit original to go back to After Effects.
00:00.240: Create, you know, send it to the dynamic link thing.
00:00.240: Yep, that's exactly what I do.
00:00.240: Yeah, absolutely.
00:00.240: Well, I think it was partly because of your podcast.
00:00.240: Or on drugs, as some people would say.
00:00.240: At the editor's retreat earlier this year, a friend of mine gave me a really great suggestion, which was to
00:00.240: To use Final Cut 10 on personal projects.
00:00.240: I had just happened to seen something online, a guy showing how you could do slideshows in Final Cut 10, where you select your clips in the timeline, press Ctrl D, and then you can specify the duration of the clips and time.
00:00.240: Really?
00:00.240: So, grow shrink, control D, and all of a sudden now I have a slideshow that is really, really good.
00:00.240: I mean, it blew my mind how quick this little project got put together.
00:00.240: Finally, get the magnetic timeline where I was not fighting it.
00:00.240: I felt so good when I would do a trim and it would act as I expected it to.
00:00.240: That's proof that this is not a professional app.
00:00.240: And then at one point along the way, I decided, you know what, I'm going to go ahead and do a simple little video in the Adobe workflow just so I can sort of try it.
00:00.240: BF Oklahoma.
00:00.240: and then take that file and then separately upload it.
00:00.240: So, I'm going to just lay this out.
00:00.240: It could be really fun, where you're you're away from everything, you have your laptops, you get some power strips hooked up to the generator in the motorhome.
00:00.240: Don't, you know, and again, you know, I don't get any money from Apple for doing this.
00:00.240: I just think it would be really fun.
00:00.240: the normal kind of work you've always done and do it still in Final Cut 10?
00:00.240: But, you know, I look at, you know, I've got this big long I have all these interviews of these people who aren't very uh they don't speak very well.
00:00.240: But if you were to just lay stuff out in a time line and log it there, that's one way to do it.
00:00.240: But you don't see the text in a marker in the timeline view.
00:00.240: Searching by tags and searching by markers, now you can read the text of all of your markers.
00:00.240: Normal markers and then to-do markers.
00:00.240: I would assume that in the near future, maybe we'll have additional colored markers and things like that.
00:00.240: With markers, chapter markers, and to-do markers.
00:00.240: I will admit that normally we are doing inter but we almost always have interviews transcribed and I'm given paper edits and
00:00.240: I cut from time code and the paper edits.
00:00.240: One of your previous guests, I think he's been on twice.
00:00.240: I think part of it is to know exactly where the clip came from in the whole grand scheme of the footage that was shot.
00:00.240: Like I say, if I'm doing a composite and I do a lot of these things where sometimes I'll do a split screen and break the frame up so that I can
00:00.240: There's plenty of extra room in that gray zone, and it would be cool if there were a preference that said give me pro timecode or something.
00:00.240: It's like the first time I do it, it goes, Hey, look, the browser is active.
00:00.240: img underscore thirteen eighty two, right?
00:00.240: To me, it's now when you're looking for timecode, are you then looking at everything in list mode and looking at the timecode in column and scrolling down and go, oh, I want to look at this clip?
00:00.240: to either copy and paste clips or to yes, to right click on a clip and say replace with Atrophics Composition.
00:00.240: In this particular case, I uh let's see, it was the Badlands South Dakota video.
00:00.240: And then bring it into After Effects.
00:00.240: Sort of to motion track onto the frame an outline of the state of South Dakota with a little arrow or something pointing to show exactly where the Badlands is, in case you don't know.
00:00.240: I know that there is an overriding philosophy that quite often we try to take a clip of video
00:00.240: You know, here is the clips that the After Effects artist is now going to work on.
00:00.240: I render the movies.
00:00.240: How do you deal with the fact that After Effects doesn't want to overwrite a file that is being used?
00:00.240: Teach me, school me.
00:00.240: important, but you know, Apple has Siri technology, and I have to think that one of these days, you know, we're going to find something like that in Final Cut 10.
00:00.240: Yeah, I mean, I get that.
00:00.240: And anybody who sits at a PC and says, What do you mean, man?
00:00.240: Yeah.
00:00.240: Maybe I'm talking about this grander trimming.
00:00.240: If you could sneak in the back door at Apple and sneak into the room where the editors are working on Funnel Cut 10, get past marketing and all the guards and everything, and you could get them to build the West
00:00.240: And then the episode number, so like 074, it's a mini-linked thing that'll take you right to the episode guide.
00:00.240: But anyway, you can see the Austin Flack demo.
00:00.240: So, when you right-click on a clip and say expand audio, and it shows you a single track representation of all the audio that is in that clip.
00:00.240: Get your head around.
00:00.240: Now, if I do, you called it a reversed L cut.
00:00.240: Right.
00:00.240: Oh, no, it was a lot of fun.
00:00.240: you'll actually see an audio track for each one of the tracks of audio in there.
00:00.240: Yeah, that's right.
00:00.240: But if we could get enough people to do it, I would be totally willing to do like an R V road trip with a bunch of people who or a handful of people
00:00.240: That wants to dig deep and dive deep into Final Cut 10.
00:00.240: So, if that's something that is literally of interest to people, and I gotta imagine it's gonna be expensive.
00:00.240: And I think we should maybe we'll do like you know have people send and you know, here's what we'll do.
00:00.240: We would rent ourselves like a Winnebago or whatever.
00:00.320: Anyway, on the show today, I have a very I'm very excited to have Wes Plate.
00:00.320: Wes's software.
00:00.320: And I go, yeah, come on the show.
00:00.320: and he shot a bunch of a bunch of video and he cut it all in Final Cut 10.
00:00.320: type it wrong because I for so long was saying premium beats, that will take you to the right website too.
00:00.320: And he has specifically asked me not to talk about any details.
00:00.320: And they go, yeah, Wes is really great.
00:00.320: And I was like, Oh, it's it keeps ca crashing every time I try to capture and I get this message from somebody and they said, Make sure your capture window is on your primary display, not your secondary display.
00:00.320: A bridge, so to speak, for After Effects that would bring an OMF file, which is like a super EDL from Avid Media Composer.
00:00.320: And right around 1999, I talked to my dad, who was a programmer at the time.
00:00.320: But yeah, that's kind of what Automatic Duck was.
00:00.320: So what was and this is going to sound really naive, but what was taking up so much time with Automatic Duck?
00:00.320: engineering what the features needed to be in the product.
00:00.320: So um I and I have to apologize.
00:00.320: You know, near religious.
00:00.320: That did the final cut and avid importing that we used to sell was then absorbed into After Effects and started to be bundled
00:00.320: you could do the dynamic linking in and out of Premiere.
00:00.320: And so what we were doing when we were the third, when we were totally separate, was we were trying to provide a similar workflow for
00:00.320: Yeah, and I think now and I d and I apologize to the Adobe users out there because I don't keep up on all of it, but I hear little bits of it.
00:00.320: And I'm totally open to having another pro Adobe person on to set me straight when I completely screw up facts.
00:00.320: bring it back in, and then even Adobe employees had said to me, Yeah, just render it and lay it back down on top of the dynamic lane
00:00.320: All of this work involves having good workflow and all that.
00:00.320: And you had you had sent me an email and said, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna kind of dive into the final cut while I'm on my road trip.
00:00.320: People like you had discovered this new drug.
00:00.320: Embrace the magnetic timeline.
00:00.320: and shoot video and edit at night and have lectures and teach and wouldn't that be fun?
00:00.320: I'm not there yet to do professional work in Final Cut 10.
00:00.320: Talking through some of the things that you f that you where you feel like, yeah, you said your own words, I'm not quite there yet.
00:00.320: That someone's going to pay me good money and be using Final Cuts N.
00:00.320: Knowing what my interview subjects are saying in the clips that I have in the bin or that I have in the timeline.
00:00.320: where the the content of the comment marker, I just did a little quick as I was listening doing logging.
00:00.320: And so when I'm thinking about a big long interview clip in Final Cut 10, which by the way, I do like the browser.
00:00.320: I can't imagine how I'm going to be able to really quickly say, oh, I need to find the part where she's talking about the treatment of that particular disease.
00:00.320: They all get to the point where they say, I have to stop holding on to the way I used to do it.
00:00.320: You know?
00:00.320: You know, so I mean, it does trim.
00:00.320: And, you know, in one of the first episodes I did, you've now listened to it if you're up to 60, whatever.
00:00.320: in the browser and then bring that clip into your timeline.
00:00.320: So and then if of course if you can search by, you know, just filter it, just show me my red markers, just show me my green markers, that would be really cool.
00:00.320: What you're talking about.
00:00.320: take y if you had three interviews and you were asking about, you know, the new hospital, if you asked everybody about the the new parking lot, you could keyword all the parking lot responses and then they would be, boom, all in one keyword collection.
00:00.320: You could also, besides keywording it, you could favorite it.
00:00.320: Yes.
00:00.320: So I will like you mentioned, I will match frame back into the bin.
00:00.320: Number one, for whatever reason, it always seems like I have to match frame something twice.
00:00.320: banned, it would constantly be filtering your search results down to what you've typed.
00:00.320: Which, you know, I'm always looking for another reason to get back on the Media Composer just to keep my chops current.
00:00.320: That I was going to say, because I have talked about this, it's the kind of overlying philosophy of
00:00.320: The other, what is it?
00:00.320: And because of the way we have grown up around this stuff and I've grown up around it um I've been using After Effects I think since like version one point five or two or something like that, um when I think it was still Cosa actually.
00:00.320: Now, that being said, that's not what you're talking about.
00:00.320: Oh, yeah, okay.
00:00.320: a a a a time line, a five minute time line with a dozen chroma key soundbites.
00:00.320: you know, it would be great if we had the ability to take, you know, a Final Cut XML and somehow make that open up in After Effects.
00:00.320: The tutorial that I did about, I think I called it like poor man's dynamic linking.
00:00.320: And Final Cut will just constantly be updating to the most recent version of it.
00:00.320: Yeah, I mean, it may be, but I'll say that quite often I will, you know, compose, render, toggle back to
00:00.320: Okay.
00:00.320: But when I hear about people like adjusting something four, five, six, eight times, I'm thinking, why does it take you so long to get it right?
00:00.320: I don't, I'll be honest, I just don't get it.
00:00.320: And again, I don't know anything people don't.
00:00.320: You know, so at any rate, I said to him, I said, do me a favor, Austin, make me an emo, make me a screen flow.
00:00.320: And then there were other people, other listeners who were like, What are you kidding me?
00:00.320: And so I get it.
00:00.320: Okay.
00:00.320: Okay, although I don't understand it because apparently I cut video like a chainsaw, although I don't fully get it.
00:00.320: It is not a real thing to me.
00:00.320: To lead in.
00:00.320: And if I had, if they could build that West feature for me, that would save me a lot of clicks and would make me happy.
00:00.320: What is it, expand audio?
00:00.320: And some of the selected pieces that I was most proud of are being collected there, as well as other new things that have happened since I've been back from the trip.
00:00.320: So, I'm going to just throw this out to the community.
00:00.320: If you guys are interested, if we can get enough people, and unfortunately, this would not be an inexpensive trip.
00:00.320: and use the um subject header uh road trip, okay?
00:00.320: Make any comments about the show, use the tab on digitalcinema cafe.
00:00.320: Travel a few hundred miles, find some interesting sights, shoot some video, have some lecture time, if you will.
00:00.320: But if that's something that people would want to do, maybe we should plan that for next spring.
00:00.400: Okay, and primarily it was a a passageway, a secret passage, if you will, from various NLEs
00:00.400: to other NLEs or to like After Effects, correct?
00:00.400: into After Effects.
00:00.400: met the folks from Apple and we started working with them on some plugins for Final Cut Pro.
00:00.400: We were in development of our plugin at the time and they somehow got a hold of me and we imported their Avid sequence into Final Cut Pro and
00:00.400: Gotcha.
00:00.400: without having to render a QuickTime movie first.
00:00.400: I have always been of the mind to render a QuickTime movie out of After Effects just because to me it's.
00:00.400: All that.
00:00.400: Instead of using the letter A for the selection tool, use the letter P for the position tool, and then just break apart all your audio so it's down below, and boom, you got Final Cut 7 again.
00:00.400: But, you know, when I f was finally done and I wanted to upload that video to YouTube, I had to send it over to Adobe Media Encoder
00:00.400: Two motor homes and twenty people or something, and it's a concentrated
00:00.400: That would make it so the next time you have something similar, you go, okay, Fenwick, I'll give it a go.
00:00.400: Every person that I've ever talked to, when they get to the point where they go, dude, I'm full on in.
00:00.400: And what he would do is he would bring his, I think he was doing string outs.
00:00.400: You know, roughly trans transcribe what is in the next sentence or paragraph.
00:00.400: And you can actually just scroll through it and read it.
00:00.400: The ability to have colored markers.
00:00.400: So um so let me ask you a question.
00:00.400: Not in Final Cut 10, exactly.
00:00.400: Into After Effects to do some work.
00:00.400: I can't think of examples.
00:00.400: Well, I think there's probably one I think I've got lots of little nibbly things, but there's probably one other major thing.
00:00.400: Um, although and I gotta say, I'm like the one Final Cut 10 user out there who hasn't delved into the TrackX and
00:00.400: My workflow is to export my movies to a single spot from After Effects.
00:00.400: Is a lot of times we'll have one after effects like you're saying, you have one After Effects artist who is dealing with that.
00:00.400: I'm not sure you can even do that.
00:00.400: is yes, he talked about script sync and the other thing that's Phrase Find, I think it's called, or something like that.
00:00.400: Your demonstration, Austin to Chris, why I'm an idiot and why I need to learn about dynamic trimming.
00:00.400: But then I get to the trimming part and I feel like that's where it really slows down.
00:00.400: And I gotta think that that affects the way I edit.
00:00.400: If you try that, if you do that in your normal primary storyline, you're going to visually see the audio precede the clip.
00:00.400: Pretty powerful.
00:00.400: you know, several days of talking about nothing but final cut.
00:00.480: Pro Tools, OFF, AFF and NOP World for the last, you know, oh, say fifteen years, you probably have used
00:00.480: And that was a giant deal in the l how do you how do you even say this?
00:00.480: So at any rate, back from his epic 7,000 mile road trip
00:00.480: And um I you know, it's I I you know I dig premium beat.
00:00.480: These, you know, monoliths of people, you know, I mean, that and and they're like, oh, yeah, no, automatic duck.
00:00.480: active online in the in the uh pre-Twitter, pre-Facebook, internet days.
00:00.480: And so we got started on it and kind of there were some fits and starts.
00:00.480: A typical piece for me was usually only about 10 or 11 sound bites that I'd have to bounce off of After Effects and bring back in.
00:00.480: So, so I apologize.
00:00.480: been hired or absorbed or sucked into the Adobe ecosystem back, I think, in like twenty eleven?
00:00.480: Four, five, and six.
00:00.480: my chroma key background on video one, my chroma key foreground on video two, my uh box over the shoulder on video three.
00:00.480: Down to New Orleans and back over the course of six weeks, 46 days, I think was the total number.
00:00.480: And did all the little editing of these little films in Final Cut 10.
00:00.480: Making things pretty simple.
00:00.480: It's not a bad idea.
00:00.480: Do you feel that it is or do you you said you got over the wall do you feel that you could do your
00:00.480: I cut it in Premiere Pro, which is what I've been doing most of my professional work in lately.
00:00.480: And using the timeline index in the lower left-hand corner of your user interface, that stuff is all searchable.
00:00.480: Interestingly enough, the very first interview I ever did for the show, but I just didn't publish it first, he was doing a long form documentary.
00:00.480: But it's not a horrible way of working.
00:00.480: Filter out the rejected clips, or you can only show the favorite clips, or you can only show the unused bits.
00:00.480: But um but but those are the ways that I organize things in the browser.
00:00.480: But that's how I organized things.
00:00.480: has commonalities on that name.
00:00.480: Or just e uh yeah, I mean it's dynamic link, I guess, is involved.
00:00.480: Oh, okay.
00:00.480: Do you want to, and for what you're talking about, yes, you totally want to do that in After Effects.
00:00.480: And another clip of video, and take those into After Effects because we want to do some crazy transition between those
00:00.480: but it will update to the most recent, I'll say, iteration of it, I think is a more accurate way of saying it, because it's still called mycool lower third.
00:00.480: With the exact same name, with the exact same path.
00:00.480: Boots so quickly that maybe it's just worth quitting Final Cut, rendering and then bringing it back up.
00:00.480: Walk away from dynamic trimming for the time being, is that um and Austin and I talked about this a lot on his episode, episode 74.
00:00.480: I do it when I'm like I'll be listening down to a sound bite and go, you know what, I'm done listening to you, and I'm option close bracket.
00:00.480: Wes's perfect feature, what would that be?
00:00.480: Before the start of the secondary storyline.
00:00.480: You trim some black in there or do some other things, but it just ends up being four steps that are going the other way that then you have to undo to get the thing you want.
00:00.480: So, um, let me know.
00:00.480: And thank you for leaving the little stars.
00:00.560: Yeah, and but but it but and and that was different because I just I just noticed the name.
00:00.560: I have been in the I will say I have been in the same cafeteria with him, but I've never met the guy.
00:00.560: I don't know if I'm doing a disservice to the community or if I'm helping, but I've kind of gotten myself into this commitment of doing a Monday and a Friday show.
00:00.560: So, um and now somewhere in there, now I and and this is totally off base, and I'm just curious.
00:00.560: They'd have a couple of layers that they want to send to After Effects.
00:00.560: But yeah, I just did everything there.
00:00.560: Road trip training seminar where you travel through the Southwest.
00:00.560: When I got back home from my RV trip, I cried because I was in my office saying, I don't want to be here.
00:00.560: You know, I'm just I'm a fan.
00:00.560: In the browser, it's when I started to wrap my head around that, that's when I abandoned.
00:00.560: six kind of fast turnaround customer videos that we didn't have time to transcribe.
00:00.560: When I'm editing, I always want to see my source time code.
00:00.560: And so tell me why do you want to see the time code?
00:00.560: I don't see a reason, especially when I'm looking at the the menu or the the the control bar I believe it's called
00:00.560: To treat and then do this composite with this animation of this graphic on top of it.
00:00.560: I guess what I want is either a very similar thing to what Final Cut used to have, send to motion, or I'd like the ability to import a Final Cut 10 XML into After Effects.
00:00.560: And right now I know there's some nerd who has the whole old files of COSAs flipping through it.
00:00.560: On another station, and he's just constantly feeding you updated elements and whatnot to drop into your timeline.
00:00.560: And I gave him the hour.
00:00.560: That there is a difference between a Comcast DVR and a TiVo.
00:00.560: Oh, and here's a trick about the website.
00:00.560: But I find that most of the time my edits are right where I want them.
00:00.560: And I'll see if I can describe this because visually it's easy to show, but to describe it maybe less so.
00:00.560: Because all of a sudden you don't see that anymore.
00:00.640: So I'm very excited to have Wes.
00:00.640: Toward the end of the interview, like the second half or so, there was a little bit of back and forth.
00:00.640: There is a training sort of element to this, and I don't want to come across like, oh, I know everything, because I really don't.
00:00.640: And that's pretty cool.
00:00.640: I guess, at least my memory tells me it was a fairly positive reputation.
00:00.640: picks up.
00:00.640: Well, now just I want to make sure I'm clear that as terms of a developer, I was certainly not that.
00:00.640: Okay, even back even long ago before Premiere was even a really really good professional editing system.
00:00.640: stuff, but you helped them do other things.
00:00.640: To sponsor a and it'll have to come up with a clever name.
00:00.640: And that you could do range-based, even though it's a long interview.
00:00.640: And that's that is that's that's one of the things that I feel like it also prevents me from feeling really wanting to embrace it because I don't know
00:00.640: Number one, are you familiar with the fact that the timecode window of the timeline shows you the time code of the timeline?
00:00.640: Getting them back, I'm still gonna be rendering a movie even in Premiere just because of the way I work, but just taking a clip and sending it from the NLE into After Effects is just so easy with Premiere.
00:00.640: That's the kind of thing that I'm going to blow your mind here, Wes.
00:00.640: And I import those into Final Cut using the leave in place functionality.
00:00.640: And I wonder if that's a Final Cut 10 issue.
00:00.640: So Final Cut becomes the editorial tool and the graphics playback engine.
00:00.640: And let's even say it's in a secondary storyline.
00:00.640: It took me a long time to feel comfortable to go ahead and right-click on that clip and say collapse.
00:00.720: They never catch up.
00:00.720: Adobe benefited from the technology that Automatic Duck had developed.
00:00.720: We started this interview.
00:00.720: What are some of the things that kept you from doing this latest job in Final Cut X?
00:00.720: better aligned performances of different people in the frame.
00:00.720: But I'm sharing that now with the the listeners.
00:00.720: Yeah, and also the other thing too is that I mean, I think the what you're describing of using motion as a builder to make effects to use in Final Cut that you can reuse, I think that
00:00.720: But that being said, there are many people on the other side of the fence that say, dude, I don't know what you're talking about.
00:00.800: Danny at Premium Beat, and Danny is one of my contacts there.
00:00.800: We will join.
00:00.800: As long as you can hear me, all right?
00:00.800: I did a few different jobs.
00:00.800: So, yeah, I took that advice and started doing a couple of small things on my own and started to just wrap my mind around it.
00:00.800: Along the way, I had some cameras and would occasionally make a little video.
00:00.800: Yeah, I had a I had a great time on the trip and Final Cut 10 was a real fun part of it that made me enjoy telling the stories as I was traveling.
00:00.800: And then if you put the mouse over a clip, then you see the source time code of the frame that you're parked on.
00:00.800: make reference to the file name.
00:00.800: So, it's going to show me 1380, 1381, 1382, 1383, 1384.
00:00.800: To varying degrees, After Effects-related stuff going on.
00:00.800: Anything else?
00:00.800: And I am not privy to the magic of dynamic trimming.
00:00.800: But there are many people that feel very passionate about the and I'm going to use lowercase D, dynamic trimming
00:00.800: That's it for this week.
00:00.880: And so I go to Launch Premiere and I just happen to notice the creators of Premiere and in the credits there on the splash screen and it says Randy Eubelos.
00:00.880: in terms of edits and references to media, that if only After Effects could read that file, I would be sorted out.
00:00.880: CS55 was out and CS6 was just about to come out, if I remember right.
00:00.880: You need to there's if you right-click on it, there's some option, I can't remember what it is.
00:00.880: Please just give it a chance.
00:00.880: I have actually changed my own workflows and gotten faster and more efficient just by having conversations with people that basically teased me about doing string outs.
00:00.880: Interesting.
00:00.880: Yes, that's true.
00:00.880: You understood what I was saying there about typing in almost the whole file name, right?
00:00.880: I mean, I've like I mentioned before, I mean, I have found some good experience with trimming in Final Cut 10.
00:00.880: Or it could be a compound clip, or it could be a multicam clip, and you will be able to see in the audio inspector all of the audio tracks that are available to
00:00.960: If I remember right, the official terms that were put out in the PR was something about.
00:00.960: And I think it just ended up being where, you know, between every all the tools that I had at my disposal, it ended up being a really great project for Premiere.
00:00.960: You know, and it's totally searchable.
00:00.960: the stuff that's in the bins in ways to help you find it later.
00:00.960: He actually is doing offline editing, which is essentially what I mostly do.
00:00.960: I'm so glad I'm not alone on that.
00:00.960: And it filters it all down, and now I just have those clips.
00:00.960: Or even what is the I think can you do a playback loop where as you're playing it, you hit I or say I want the edit here
00:00.960: It may be, but I find and maybe and I'll be honest, Wes, maybe I am a complete hack and don't know what I'm doing.
00:00.960: And so I think that it's very possible that there is some of that going on.
00:01.040: Or if you're like uh the guest we had on uh last week, um, Danny Rubio.
00:01.040: I know exactly what this conversation is.
00:01.040: But what I think what Apple would like to see us do is to use something like motion to actually build a transition that goes from generic clip A to generic clip B.
00:01.040: What's it dynamic?
00:01.040: I see that you're very passionate about it, and I'm not going to try and take the food away from the dog.
00:01.120: How are you?
00:01.120: They offlined it in, I think it was Express Pro, which was the lower cost version of Avid at the time.
00:01.120: There was an article I read by Walter Biscardi out there in Buford, and he tells this story about how you had just
00:01.120: So, well, I should probably just back up to say that I was curious about Final Cut 10.
00:01.120: I'll cut some of this out because this is a bad interview.
00:01.120: I would recommend, and I don't know if I put the Final Cut 10 demo that somebody made on the same website with Austin's, but if you go to digitalcinemafe.
00:01.120: Very cool.
00:01.120: But it would be I think it would be a blast.
00:01.200: If it's okay, I usually just jump right in and start the show very low key.
00:01.200: And you're seeing that.
00:01.200: So I'm going to do a reverse L cut.
00:01.200: And I don't know that it would be really formal, but it would be an intensive time with a bunch of geeks that want to learn Final Cut X.
00:01.280: Automatic Duck started well, we started working on it in real earnest towards the end of 2000, and we had our first product shipping at NAB 2001.
00:01.280: And you know, bring your time code in column over to the left so it's it's visible.
00:01.280: Yeah.
00:01.280: And then when I want to make updates and revisions to those graphics, I
00:01.280: Yeah, I I I don't ever need to do anything even remotely like that, but I see why you might like that.
00:01.280: So, when you look at your audio inspector for any given clip, a clip could have A, it could be one of these new cameras that has like eight tracks of audio, Crazy Town.
00:01.280: Use with that clip.
00:01.360: Like his Twitter number is like, you know, two million or something.
00:01.360: And again, it's slightly different, but you just range base keyword it.
00:01.360: And I think what I ended up having to do was maybe find the media file in the Finder, bring it into After Effects.
00:01.360: And so the option, you know, this whole idea of should I do the effect in After Effects or should I do the effect directly inside of my NLE, that's not even really a conversation because I'm teamed up with somebody.
00:01.360: Let me ask you one last question, Wes, and thanks for doing this.
00:01.360: Yeah, very cool.
00:01.440: So now did so and again, I'm just sort of deconstructing this historically.
00:01.440: I wonder if that's possible.
00:01.520: Hello, hello.
00:01.520: I'm trying to listen to everything.
00:01.520: Back at that time, I was editing in Media Composer and was constantly taking sequences into After Effects, either to do myself
00:01.520: But we were doing all that back in the late nineties and it was pretty tedious, although I was able to come up with some pretty good
00:01.520: I mean, the thing is, there is so much to see in this country, and there's so many interesting people to talk to and tell stories about.
00:01.520: Yeah, that is one way to do that thing.
00:01.520: And I think that it has many of the features and sure, probably not all of them.
00:01.600: I think one of the things that led us to be successful during that phase was that personal connection that we were able to create with our users.
00:01.600: What were you doing there, or can you talk about any of that?
00:01.600: It was just a really simple little thing that involved some, it was like a slideshow with some video connected to it, some time-lapse stuff.
00:01.600: So I had a it was just a really good experience.
00:01.600: Especially if I have clips on top of each other, or if I've got a composite that I'm setting up and I need to know the relationship of source time.
00:01.600: I don't know, you know, and and it was very it was a very interesting interview, and and I got a lot of response from it because one of the things that he went off on
00:01.680: And he goes, oh no, I'm not ready.
00:01.680: Where you are looking, well, I just want to see the time code.
00:01.680: You could hover and go, Oh, that's hour 14, and then scroll down the list and look for hour 14 and then go here we are at 2 p.
00:01.680: At any rate, so that's one way that people would say to do it.
00:01.680: But it's updated because I rendered it once at 2 o'clock and once at 2:30 and once at 3:15.
00:01.680: All right.
00:01.760: Did he invent that?
00:01.760: If I was really smart, I'd have those.
00:01.760: Right.
00:01.840: I'm doing great, and I'm excited to talk to you.
00:01.840: It seemed like it was antithetical to everything people believed in.
00:01.840: So that's one of the new things.
00:01.920: And so it was fun meeting you at NAB.
00:01.920: I mean, people absolutely loved it.
00:01.920: So here's a question that every that I hear all the time.
00:01.920: It then gets collapsed down to four.
00:01.920: And there was even one feature.
00:01.920: And it is a bit of a cop-out.
00:01.920: And then if I need to update it, I just overwrite it.
00:01.920: If you want to see some of the fun projects that we did over the RV trip, you can go to westplate.
00:02.000: They're not crazy about the current pop-up player.
00:02.000: Oh, that's too long.
00:02.000: And so, um, anyway, that was that's when I finally said, okay, I'm starting to get it.
00:02.000: Yeah.
00:02.000: In fact, this even happened on one of my little fun things over the summer.
00:02.000: Okay, so this is quite controversial.
00:02.000: And then there was the hardcore avid people going, You don't know what you're talking about.
00:02.000: Yes, it does it, but it doesn't do it as well to the Final Cut 10.
00:02.000: And one of the things I think I said to Austin is, you know, I did many, many years of live switching before I ever started editing.
00:02.000: You don't see it, so I think it's not going to happen.
00:02.000: Take care, Wes.
00:02.080: Yeah, I hear you.
00:02.080: Well, no, all you got to do is listen to more than two per week, and you'll catch up.
00:02.080: Yeah, so I mean there's a whole lot of cha cha cha to do that and but let's face it, you know, I don't mind that because you know what we do here is hard and it and it is a
00:02.080: You know, a lot of people want to fight it in the beginning.
00:02.080: Yeah, and and it's kind of like uh it's sort of like the iTunes well, it actually I guess everything on the Macintosh search is the same way.
00:02.160: He developed a piece of software called Automatic Duck.
00:02.160: He's a great guy.
00:02.160: So I was really a good editor and Avid also in Final Cut Pro.
00:02.160: And then some of our technology for importing AAF and reading the AAF files was eventually brought into Premiere Pro.
00:02.160: Somebody will probably steal my idea.
00:02.160: Like maybe we'd have like, you know, 15 or 20 people meet in LA, we'll rent a couple of motorhomes.
00:02.160: This is kind of cool.
00:02.240: And it was like 1 a.
00:02.240: Right.
00:02.240: So you might want to use those in different ways.
00:02.240: Good.
00:02.240: Right.
00:02.240: I'm gonna glaze over part of it.
00:02.240: No, it's not.
00:02.320: I've listened enough to this show to know exactly what you're going to say next, but I will step into your trap.
00:02.400: Let's go now to our interview with Wes Plate and his initial impressions of Final Cut 10.
00:02.400: I was marketing, I was sales, I was answering questions and doing support, and I found myself pretty busy
00:02.400: But I traveled to all of them.
00:02.400: He's from the UK.
00:02.400: Okay.
00:02.400: Like Motion X or Track X or something.
00:02.400: And because that's the way I always did, you know, like so for many years in my Final Cut 7 workflow, I would do, you know
00:02.400: I really wish that I could do a JKL playback in while I'm trimming, so I can actually play forward with the edit and play backward with the edit instead of having to use the mouse or the keyboard.
00:02.400: Thanks again for listening.
00:02.480: Hey, welcome to another episode of Final Cut Grill.
00:02.480: So it wasn't that terrible, but I just realized that Final Cut 10 had been taking out a lot of steps for me.
00:02.480: I would listen to it and I would drop markers and key phrases.
00:02.480: Okay, so that's good.
00:02.480: So again, Wes, I'm glad we finally got to do this.
00:02.560: Exactly.
00:02.560: I don't want to misrepresent because it almost sounds like you're saying
00:02.560: Like you even said, I was totally jazzed the first time I did a trim and it actually worked the way I thought it was going to work.
00:02.560: No, no, I understand.
00:02.560: I said, You are telling me Avid will always be used for reality television.
00:02.640: I also want to mention just today, like literally 20 minutes ago, I got an email from
00:02.640: Great.
00:02.640: I mean, these guys were just absolutely thrilled that we were able to get so much done.
00:02.640: How about now all my clips are two and a half seconds?
00:02.640: So I'll tell you one thing, and this is a common discussion point that comes up when I have this talk with people offline.
00:02.640: I understand you want to see it all the time.
00:02.720: I'm up to like, I think, episode sixty or something like that.
00:02.720: That's always been just an Adobe thing, and that's also we've had nothing to do with that.
00:02.720: I'm literally just a fan of the software and I like talking about it.
00:02.720: And to-do markers are kind of cool because you get that little checkbox where you can say, yep, I've done it, and it changes its status in the timeline index.
00:02.720: I don't know.
00:02.720: I get it that if you use dynamic trimming in the true avid sense, it is a religious experience, and I'm never going to talk you out of it.
00:02.720: Thanks again.
00:02.800: It was a a way to make all the tools that everybody uses talk well to each other.
00:02.800: I might be one of the one guys that was deep into Final Cut and After Effects that actually never used Automatic Duck.
00:02.800: But times when, you know, just earlier this year we had
00:02.800: And again, I'm not trying to be confrontational.
00:02.800: So I apologize.
00:02.800: So I've got a clip which is above my primary storyline connected down below.
00:02.800: All right, Chris.
00:02.880: And I feel silly saying the oughts, but that's what they used to say, the oughts.
00:02.880: I never gave you any money.
00:02.880: Now that's going to replace it with a magic comp thing inside the thing.
00:02.880: Of course, it trims.
00:02.960: Sounds great.
00:02.960: And even before then, I mean, I can remember one of the first
00:02.960: Interesting.
00:02.960: You don't want to stop, don't, don't kill, don't shoot yourself in the foot.
00:02.960: What is the word?
00:03.040: Sure, I can do my little ranges, but how am I going to subclip and then mark the name of the subclip so I know what answer they're giving at that point?
00:03.040: And this is interesting.
00:03.040: I was able to type in, as I was listening, sort of what the answer was so that when I'm looking at the clip in Premiere, I can see the comment and I can read the text, and I have them all as subclips.
00:03.040: And he's like, oh, Chris, you don't know what you're talking about.
00:03.040: I'm not defending the trimming capability of Final Cut 10.
00:03.040: And again, I don't want to go back down the battle, but I get it, and I get that it's a real thing.
00:03.040: Okay?
00:03.120: So he went on like an epic road trip vacation with his family.
00:03.120: But the idea of offlining on an Avid and finishing it in Final Cut Pro was crazy.
00:03.120: And what he'd do is he would do markers and he would
00:03.120: Anybody who wants to find a specific episode.
00:03.120: Contact me, email me at Chris at Digital Cinema Cafe.
00:03.200: Yeah, it could be.
00:03.280: It's good, really.
00:03.280: That's where you have to go and do the searching inside of the index.
00:03.280: Or maybe it is an overlay like it was in 7.
00:03.280: It might be, because it's holding onto the file saying because I can do Command Shift D in the render queue in After Effects, which will duplicate that render
00:03.360: But even still, it could take a few hours to get a complex sequence rebuilt.
00:03.360: One of the last things I did was I was working in the product management team on a product called Prelude and an iPad companion app called Prelude Live Logger.
00:03.360: Now, the other way, that dynamic link, the ability to take an After Effects comp and play it directly inside of Premiere.
00:03.360: And that render is when I'm saying it's ready.
00:03.360: I can't remember how I stumbled upon it, but I was listening to it and everywhere.
00:03.360: And I really wanted, I wanted to know what that high felt like.
00:03.360: Until you use it a couple of times, you go, mm, yeah, that's not so bad.
00:03.360: So, if you were to log your stuff in a timeline, now, and I'm just launching my computer here so I can double-check something else for you.
00:03.360: What you're talking about, I would totally do that in After Effects.
00:03.360: My PC works exactly like your Mac.
00:03.360: So if I drag that out prior to my video, and I understand that's a little weird in a secondary storyline.
00:03.360: Thanks a lot.
00:03.440: Awesome.
00:03.440: Not everybody used our stuff.
00:03.440: So that way I'm not trying to dive into something that is mission critical.
00:03.520: So that's actually a really powerful trick where I'll just I look at the file name and I type it in, and now I'm right there, exactly what you're saying.
00:03.520: I don't know.
00:03.520: And just overwrite the file even though Premiere is using it.
00:03.520: So, what I want to do is, I want to have leading audio for that particular thing.
00:03.600: And I'm like, and it was weird because it was like, I think of companies as
00:03.600: It's the story of my life.
00:03.600: Yes, screw you, now show me the clip.
00:03.600: And other people made Final Cut 10 dynamic trimming demos.
00:03.600: I love a good road trip.
00:03.600: Thank you so much for all of the comments that you leave on the iTunes.
00:03.680: m.
00:03.680: So in seven, did you always have the time code overload overlay thing going?
00:03.680: I don't think he did, but I know that he talked about that in one of his behind-the-scenes, and so I've always related to him.
00:03.680: So when you just say expand audio, you get a single track representation of all of those tracks mixed together.
00:03.760: We've been trying to do this for a couple of months.
00:03.760: It's probably just a little different than the way you've done it with other apps.
00:03.760: And I see this happen all the time.
00:03.760: And maybe it and maybe it it it leads me to believe that, well, that's as good as it's gonna get, 'cause in a live thing you can't go back and fix it.
00:03.840: We both have that complaint.
00:03.840: And you could and if you had a an immediate reference to the time code, you could look at it in list mode.
00:03.920: and I'm just editing on my laptop, having so much fun.
00:03.920: Here's just the answer to the first question.
00:03.920: Do you do top and tail?
00:03.920: Okay, so this is a small thing, but it it bites me just about every project that I use.
00:03.920: It's a great community of people, and we will do something special.
00:04.000: What's a day in the life of an automatic duck developer like?
00:04.000: So I started listening to your podcast as just a way to sort of get my mind wrapped around it.
00:04.000: There were some nights where I'd be editing at like one o'clock in the morning, sitting out in the middle of some RV park in, I don't know.
00:04.000: And so I will want to see how the left side of the frame is four frames different from the right side of the frame.
00:04.000: You know what I do a lot of?
00:04.000: I'm g please s I tell you what, somebody make the bonehead starter tutorial for Chris Fenwick and post it for me because I would love to have somebody show me how to use that.
00:04.000: You have to watch the tutorial.
00:04.000: Magnetic timelines, the next clip right up against it.
00:04.000: It's actually going to happen, people.
00:04.080: That's right.
00:04.080: I'm sorry about that.
00:04.080: Follow with me here, people.
00:04.080: I can remember when Final Kit 10 first came out, there was a feature that kind of I think a lot of people were crapping on, saying, you know, this share menu with the ability to share straight to YouTube.
00:04.080: Just because I don't know the I don't know the tool that well.
00:04.080: I'm like, oh, look at that, that's cool.
00:04.080: Several episodes ago, episode 75, I had a guy named Austin Flack on the show.
00:04.080: And of course, I'm using my hands that nobody can see.
00:04.080: It'd be a small enough group that we could travel comfortably, not not live in the Winnebago, but we could travel comfortably
00:04.160: You know, you are an interesting character in my mind because.
00:04.160: And I had been using After Effects long enough to know that there was a whole plug-in community around there.
00:04.160: We had talked to this one user in Los Angeles who had done a fairly large documentary.
00:04.160: It was a good time.
00:04.160: And this is something that literally, like just in the last month or two, that it I really felt comfortable with.
00:04.240: And anyway, I I just always have that memory.
00:04.240: You know, I love the way this show just sort of evolves organically.
00:04.240: And now Premier has the updated thing that's going to play back.
00:04.240: No, not this week.
00:04.320: Is it Thomas?
00:04.400: It's kind of like uh the Walkers and Walking Dead.
00:04.400: And I can remember people looking at me going, like, what do you mean you don't use our medicine?
00:04.400: So dynamic linking is not based on the automatic duck
00:04.400: I was feeling like I was understanding it.
00:04.400: And I totally understand when people say, Yeah, I don't want to rethink the way I work.
00:04.400: If you just want to literally visually browse it, you can just scroll down through it.
00:04.400: One of the things that I do all the time, exactly what you're saying, I want to find stuff that's near it.
00:04.400: But yeah, so that's another way of filtering down.
00:04.400: So, at any rate, but I do stuff all the time.
00:04.400: And it's just all of these these small trims that I'm doing to sort of smooth things out after I've got the assembly done.
00:04.400: com.
00:04.480: Yeah, I did.
00:04.480: So that's that nice.
00:04.480: And I would assume, I don't know anything.
00:04.480: I really appreciate chatting.
00:04.480: So that that's something that I think people need to be reminded of.
00:04.480: So that was fun.
00:04.560: And that's a pretty low number.
00:04.560: In fact, when we started, it was the very first product we had in two thousand one was a
00:04.560: Oh, sure.
00:04.560: So it was it was a great revelation.
00:04.560: I think that's one of the things in the latest release.
00:04.560: And so the fact that I am not able to easily see source time code in Final Cut 10 is a real troubling thing for me.
00:04.560: Blow it.
00:04.560: And if you keep track of your files with good folders and naming and stuff, it's not that hard.
00:04.560: And so I think there's a real opportunity there for you.
00:04.560: But he talked a lot about dynamic trimming.
00:04.640: I don't know exactly what that means, Danny, but I'm looking at it and I can't wait to click on this thing.
00:04.640: And this is back in like the AOL chat room era, right?
00:04.640: But it was around two thousand that we really got started.
00:04.640: Yeah, so it was on that project where I finally made it to the top of the learning wall you talked about.
00:04.640: We are inventing this as we go.
00:04.640: There's a little green tab on the right-hand side.
00:04.720: So go check out Premium Beat.
00:04.720: And I've seen whole tutorials where people would say, look, just lay a black slug on your primary video track.
00:04.720: And I was again continuing to just like
00:04.720: Or are you just saying, nope, it's good for home videos?
00:04.720: Because, you know, that was the big feature in Final Cut 7 over 6.
00:04.720: I'm sorry.
00:04.720: Ah, I totally get I totally get what you're saying.
00:04.800: It's like unrender or something, and that turns that rendered file
00:04.800: Oh, yeah, I have that in my list of complaints.
00:04.800: So I will often choose Premiere as my editing tool just because it is so, it's just so fantastic to take some clips, send them into After Effects really quick.
00:04.880: I think I've invented a million great products that other people made money off of.
00:04.880: And there's a few problems with that.
00:04.960: This is 089.
00:04.960: And they he sent me a frame grab of the new website.
00:04.960: Yeah, and I've had talk with actually Adobe employees who have said prior to this feature that what they would do is they would start with
00:04.960: And then the other thing is, is if you right-click on that thing and say expand audio components
00:05.040: Um well, you can you can chastise me.
00:05.040: And so we were doing a lot of this kind of work that I think today is a bit standard, where sometimes you can't tell where the editorial left off and where the graphic design.
00:05.040: No, the yep, Adobe always had a really great communication mechanism between Premiere and After Effects.
00:05.040: And maybe we can figure out workflow ideas and organization ideas?
00:05.040: Hello, Apple.
00:05.040: And I think that it would be epic.
00:05.120: I'd love to meet him someday.
00:05.120: In fact, I think back then the user group circuit was still a bit of a new thing.
00:05.120: No.
00:05.120: And I thought to myself, if I had done this in Premiere, if I did this in Media Composer, it would have been a nightmare.
00:05.120: You know, that's when I knew that I was making progress.
00:05.120: Final Cut 10 is great for just fun, simple things.
00:05.120: I wanted to do a little thing in After Effects.
00:05.200: Ever edited at all.
00:05.200: It goes off to After Effects.
00:05.200: I don't really do a lot of finish work.
00:05.200: So, are there other things where it kind of kept you from jumping in?
00:05.200: Of course, I could always match frame, but sometimes that doesn't help me because I want to know what was near it in the bin.
00:05.200: I and maybe it's because I can't see the time code.
00:05.200: I basically just keep updating the movie in the folder in the finder.
00:05.200: That's it for this Monday.
00:05.280: Now, if you don't know that name, I promise you, if you've been in the Final Cut, Avid.
00:05.280: I talk about them all the time, but uh because, you know, they pay me to.
00:05.280: And then I think it was by the end of two thousand one, we actually had a plugin that would take
00:05.280: And then later we had an After Effects plugin, pardon me, a Final Cut plug-in that allows you to go to Avid.
00:05.280: That's okay.
00:05.280: Sure.
00:05.280: So, this is what we would do.
00:05.280: And if I get enough response, um I'll make this happen.
00:05.360: I'm sure it wasn't, but I do know that the ecosystem around Automatic Duck was
00:05.360: Thomas Grove Carter, maybe?
00:05.360: Now I'm not saying it's wrong.
00:05.360: Even that I usually think of dynamic link as coming the other way.
00:05.360: I would just match frame back into the bin where that clip came from and export from the bin a partial clip.
00:05.360: A Mac user looks at them, rolls their eyes and says, Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.
00:05.440: He was like, Well, it doesn't do this.
00:05.440: So like you you you click to play something and it pops
00:05.440: And they're like, Yeah, I know we hate it.
00:05.440: So, that's that's sort of what we did.
00:05.440: Yeah, it it's that's one of the huge benefits.
00:05.440: And this is kind of a little Fenwick trick.
00:05.440: Yeah, you should totally do that in Premiere.
00:05.520: Now if you're new to the Final Cut 10 world, you may have never heard this.
00:05.520: Then they'll duplicate them and put them right on top of those original layers, lasso them.
00:05.520: Now, I have since gotten away from doing string outs.
00:05.520: Oh, yeah, I can see that.
00:05.520: Correct.
00:05.520: And I wanted to bring up um
00:05.520: I'm putting words together that don't belong together and it takes trimming.
00:05.520: So, Digital Cinema Cafe is where all of our shows are
00:05.520: I've been bugging you for a few weeks now.
00:05.520: I love a good road trip, and I love talking to people about Final Cut 10.
00:05.520: And this might be a total pipe dream.
00:05.600: And there's a little bit of like uh
00:05.600: I mean, people could get around, people could get behind the idea of offline editing and Final Cut 3.
00:05.600: And so the plug-in for After Effects
00:05.600: And I basically set out to continue my Final Cut Pro journey.
00:05.600: I believe those markers come with you.
00:05.600: Right?
00:05.600: Right, yeah, absolutely.
00:05.600: But I know that
00:05.600: And I don't know that it's feasible.
00:05.680: Is that all right?
00:05.680: Yeah.
00:05.680: But if you are using a dynamically linked comp.
00:05.680: Because I use After Effects almost every day.
00:05.680: Now, I won't say version because version implies that I'm changing the file name by adding a version number to it, and obviously it can't do that.
00:05.760: I actually met a guy who was like under a hundred once.
00:05.760: That's okay.
00:05.760: I remember when we met at NAB and you weren't entirely sure even how Automac Duck worked.
00:05.760: I've, for some time, I've been wondering.
00:05.760: I want to be back on the road.
00:05.760: I have just been working on a project that I'm hoping we're almost done with, a little corporate piece.
00:05.760: And of course, that's a total false economy because it takes twice as long or more to actually cut it.
00:05.760: I'm just saying that, and this is a great example of
00:05.760: SpaceX.
00:05.760: You don't have to leave your stuff expanded.
00:05.760: I love the idea of an intensive
00:05.840: And so when I started Automatic Duck, it just worked out pretty well that a lot of those relationships followed me in as customers.
00:05.840: I never knew anybody that that knew Randy.
00:05.840: I joined Adobe in 2011, and I think the official CS55
00:05.840: I'm placing a line in the sand.
00:05.840: And it took me five minutes to get it set up.
00:05.840: Well, I'll start with that one.
00:05.840: Okay.
00:05.840: And then I do it again, and it goes, Oh, yeah, I was getting to that.
00:05.840: Oh, that's very cool.
00:05.920: He had told me that he was playing around in Final Cut 10.
00:05.920: So the last episode I heard you were mentioning something about
00:05.920: I did some very rudimentary Googleizing this afternoon and
00:05.920: So you can't do like a whole lot of Route 66.
00:05.920: And I actually was thinking, boy, this might be the time that I should make the switch.
00:05.920: Well, you and I did not talk before
00:05.920: I agree.
00:05.920: Please fix.
00:05.920: And you know, and the other thing that's very important, and we do this on some of the more graphics-heavy projects that we work on here at Slice.
00:06.000: So that's another level of filtering down
00:06.000: You know, I'm not going to do that.
00:06.080: He was working for Hewlett-Packard, and I said, I got this idea for something that maybe would be a little side project for us.
00:06.080: Okay.
00:06.080: Now, of course, I still am just barely there.
00:06.080: Maybe like do part of Route 66 or something.
00:06.080: But those are the kinds of things that are super helpful to you because markers are not just markers.
00:06.080: So that you know that.
00:06.080: So I actually do that a lot.
00:06.160: Okay, so that's the background.
00:06.160: You know, you're giving me I'm sitting here listening to your idea and my mind is like exploding with
00:06.160: I really wish I could talk them into backing up one of their big old money trucks to my door and dumping some out, but
00:06.160: There's plenty of capability right here in Final Cut 10 as well.
00:06.160: Imagine you've got a connected clip.
00:06.240: And so I was like, yeah, I want to hear your experience.
00:06.240: And so a lot of avid editors knew who I was and I had uh developed
00:06.240: Oh, and I should say by 2004, I also had pretty much stopped editing because
00:06.240: Now I don't think that's necessarily the best way.
00:06.240: I feel like sometimes I actually know what you're saying.
00:06.240: Send in comments if you want to like, you know
00:06.320: The latter part of the first decade of the 21st century, 2005 to 10.
00:06.320: You can't see the new website yet, but the old website is there too.
00:06.320: I think this is a big deal.
00:06.320: You know, I was talking with Scott Simmons the other day, and he had said that he had gotten onto Twitter
00:06.320: Yeah, right.
00:06.320: It's like, oh my goodness, I just caused a war, an internet war.
00:06.320: And there's a difference between the Macintosh user experience and the Windows PC user experience.
00:06.320: And then I'll I'll also say and then we'll
00:06.400: No, totally cool.
00:06.400: Oh my God.
00:06.400: In fact, I used to tell people back then that
00:06.400: I just want to say that to my friends at Apple, who I believe listened to this.
00:06.400: I'll go into the little finder box in the browser and I type one three eight.
00:06.480: So that being said
00:06.480: I totally get it.
00:06.480: I see, yeah, you're right.
00:06.480: I'm just curious because I'm not really time code-y centric.
00:06.480: But I'm imagining, I mean, it's kind of like it's the finessing where I'm
00:06.560: Good grief, rapidly approaching 100.
00:06.560: And then if you decide that you need to go back to After Effects to make a change
00:06.560: I'm going to go magic, magic, keying, key light, whatever.
00:06.560: I think that would be cool.
00:06.560: So it's very, very simple.
00:06.560: And I think the way that I would do it, and this is a hack, and this is actually
00:06.640: Right.
00:06.640: Yes.
00:06.640: And it's really just a matter of, oh, I didn't think of actually searching for the file name almost.
00:06.640: And this actually prevents me from even using Media Composer sometimes.
00:06.640: Must be a final cut issue where it's holding that file open.
00:06.720: Of course, back then it was like Final Cut Five and Six, and then eventually seven.
00:06.720: I just want to be clear about that.
00:06.720: But that is that a lot of projects that I work on have some
00:06.720: And I watched it.
00:06.720: And I am saying that and I am giving the Mac like experience to the Avid as opposed to the
00:06.720: But the last question I'll ask you, and I don't know at episode 60, whatever, if I've gotten to this pattern yet.
00:06.720: Send a message and we'll do a little cut down.
00:06.800: I'm like, Well, what if you did this?
00:06.800: But premiumbeat.
00:06.800: So, again, totally naive, but it makes sense when you explain it that way.
00:06.800: So if I look at my timeline, I might have
00:06.800: Oh my God.
00:06.800: But see, you can make your timeline index wide.
00:06.800: Because it'll show I mean, it's smart enough that it's going to show everything that's got a similar name.
00:06.880: Yeah, it's funny.
00:06.880: So they always had that.
00:06.880: And when it came time to actually crafting the story, I did it through the Timeline Index.
00:06.880: And of course, now my ins and outs are all gone.
00:06.880: It's a whole sound familiar.
00:06.880: And yeah, those are good.
00:06.880: We would fly to a city and/or location that has interesting sights around it.
00:06.960: So that's one of the things, one of the several things that are changing with the new website he has told me.
00:06.960: They just keep, you know, killing each other and there's just more and more of these episodes and it's kind of a sickness, I know, but I've been doing two a week and
00:06.960: Tell me about that, what your trip.
00:06.960: In June, a friend of mine asked me to do a video
00:06.960: So that then now I'm on a road trip over the summer.
00:06.960: I was like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
00:06.960: I don't want to go to bed because it was fun.
00:06.960: You could marker it and have little keywords like, oh, I really like this.
00:06.960: And when you start realizing how that works, where you can
00:06.960: Well, I guess, yeah, but I guess that's, I guess maybe when I'm talking about trimming.
00:06.960: Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
00:06.960: And we'll be back Friday with another episode.
00:07.040: Yeah, Wes is a great guy.
00:07.040: But when he was talking about doing offline editing, that kind of really piqued my interest because
00:07.040: That is so easy.
00:07.040: So I.
00:07.040: I get that.
00:07.040: Tell me why.
00:07.120: Yeah, exactly.
00:07.120: And then the company existed.
00:07.120: Yeah, so actually, so CS6 came out at NAB.
00:07.120: Very lawyer approved.
00:07.120: We'll call it like the Final Cut 10 Journey, right?
00:07.120: So I could probably get in on that.
00:07.120: Yeah, so maybe in that case, uh, I mean, at least in my experience, Final Cut 10.
00:07.120: Does that make sense?
00:07.120: I don't know.
00:07.120: So that's one thing that every time, and I've have you have to, you can work around it by
00:07.120: Yeah, I think I will say this about
00:07.200: And we traveled like 7,000 miles.
00:07.200: By the way, I did the logging in Prelude, which is the
00:07.200: If I can tell that it was shot at 10 a.
00:07.200: Right.
00:07.200: And they're like,
00:07.200: What I concede that because I see the passion in people like Austin and others
00:07.280: com.
00:07.280: Like, no, Fenwick, that's never going to happen.
00:07.360: I wanted to know what is it that you discovered that the rest of us just aren't getting.
00:07.360: Is that what it is?
00:07.360: So I think it's very similar.
00:07.360: I don't know
00:07.360: You know, thank you, people at Telestream.
00:07.440: I don't want
00:07.440: That if you have markers on a clip in the browser, you bring it in the timeline, they certainly do show up.
00:07.440: Okay, and the other thing is, is you can do like there's three different types of markers.
00:07.440: So I do a lot of HDSLR and I think this works with other camera uh footage as well.
00:07.440: Yep.
00:07.440: I think you've mentioned that on the show before.
00:07.440: It's like, okay.
00:07.440: Oh man, you got to get privy.
00:07.520: Danny's brand new to editing, and he had never heard of Wes or Automatic Duck when that came up in our conversation.
00:07.520: And then in NAB two thousand one, after we were shipping this solution to get from Media Composer into After Effects, that's when I
00:07.520: Gotcha.
00:07.520: And, you know
00:07.520: I see this is my future.
00:07.600: But there are a few things I know, and it's fun to share once in a while.
00:07.600: I like being able to see all the thumbnails and I like seeing everything there.
00:07.600: That's good.
00:07.600: com/slash films.
00:07.680: But uh I'm stoked to see this and uh you know they have great music and you know there's there's a lot of stuff on here.
00:07.680: And don't forget Command T, and you have all your dissolves done.
00:07.680: It totally does what I need to do.
00:07.680: But you can already kind of do that with chapter
00:07.680: And I would lay them out and I'd cut them for time and length and stuff, and then I would just match frame back into the bin and export a ProRes.
00:07.760: And he would just put, you know, a sentence or two into the text of the marker.
00:07.760: I feel the same way.
00:07.760: But yeah, the ability to take
00:07.760: It was just taking one section of clip.
00:07.760: 2 or something like that.
00:07.760: And it, boom, it cuts it off and it ripples the it and it uh
00:07.840: Even at large companies like that, they are real people behind it.
00:07.840: Oh, they all are.
00:07.840: You can't trim the audio portion of a clip.
00:07.840: And even Wes said, oh, dude, it's so expensive.
00:07.920: And I was thinking about it actually when I met you at NAB.
00:07.920: Listening to the joy and the excitement in your voice.
00:07.920: When you start to
00:07.920: Yeah.
00:07.920: In Premiere, I had a pretty cool workflow going where I had subclips and comment markers.
00:07.920: And then here's another thing that I'll do.
00:07.920: And now I have like a subset of the clips that are immediately around the clip that I was just looking at.
00:07.920: And thanks for joining us.
00:08.000: Hi, Alex.
00:08.000: com, go check them out.
00:08.000: And there was a chat room for Adobe Premiere.
00:08.000: Oh, that may be too much.
00:08.000: So you recently went on a vacation.
00:08.000: And this is interesting because, in the process of making this show, this is episode 89 now, Good Grief.
00:08.000: Right, right, right.
00:08.000: What have we got?
00:08.080: Um
00:08.080: David Fabello, and I believe it was like episode five or six or something like that.
00:08.080: And I feel really bad.
00:08.080: I remember you saying that before, and I remember thinking, what's wrong with him?
00:08.080: Those are
00:08.080: When I'm assembling?
00:08.080: It'd be, you know, it'd be a good trip.
00:08.160: And he's like, Oh, yeah, that's a good point.
00:08.160: So I knew enough about the OMF file format to know that it had all the information that we needed.
00:08.160: And they wanted to finish it in an Avid DS, which was their finishing solution.
00:08.160: Is that the thing?
00:08.160: The whole idea of
00:08.160: Let me just double check something here.
00:08.160: So the way I do, so you mentioned a couple of things.
00:08.160: You can tidy up your timeline.
00:08.160: It's always so encouraging to hear what people have to say.
00:08.240: And then
00:08.240: Now, have you listened or have you watched?
00:08.240: You actually did one trim and it did what you expected.
00:08.320: Yeah.
00:08.320: I did it several years ago and I spent a month driving the whole thing.
00:08.320: So you can search for, oh, where's the part where he said bandage?
00:08.320: And so if I'm working in FinTen and I'm gonna and I want to send a portion of a clip
00:08.400: Yeah, you should get to know him.
00:08.400: I've been listening to your podcast, and I'm
00:08.400: That helps you.
00:08.400: I do as well.
00:08.400: Okay, so it's a whole workflow.
00:08.400: And maybe I am a hack.
00:08.480: But I did everything else that wasn't engineering.
00:08.480: Well, those are useful.
00:08.560: I can just send my video straight to Vimeo or straight to YouTube.
00:08.560: That's one way to do it.
00:08.560: He's an LA-based, avid editor.
00:08.560: So if you go to digitalcinemacafe.
00:08.560: It's got to be um viable, it's got to be I I it I'm not going to do this out of my own pocket.
00:08.640: But you know, there was this one
00:08.640: I had developed my own kind of archaic workflows and
00:08.640: I know that at least at CS5
00:08.640: We got time here.
00:08.640: What else?
00:08.640: Yeah.
00:08.640: So since you cracked open the overwrite discussion.
00:08.640: Like 11 more episodes to episode 100?
00:08.720: But I think that one of the new features now is a
00:08.720: Isn't that awesome?
00:08.720: It's right here.
00:08.720: And if you add one more character, it goes, Oh, I guess it's not this guy, it's not
00:08.720: I didn't have a way to do that.
00:08.720: And that's essentially the way that I work in Premiere because I'll render about my movie.
00:08.720: But that's kind of where I put my fun projects.
00:08.800: And maybe it's just I'm sure it's just my own knowledge of Final Cut 10.
00:08.800: m.
00:08.800: Always.
00:08.800: Okay, so weird.
00:08.800: m.
00:08.800: iTunes used to do it too.
00:08.800: No, no, I don't see your name here.
00:08.800: And I'm like, yeah, okay, I got that.
00:08.800: It's amazing.
00:08.880: I mean, it seems like it's like, okay, so let's just do this and make that work and then you get the programming done.
00:08.880: So, what I would do
00:08.960: So go check it out, premiumbeat.
00:08.960: It was a big, big, big trip.
00:08.960: I mean, I was.
00:08.960: I think we did that on digital convergence.
00:09.040: You obviously don't know what you're doing.
00:09.040: Yeah, wondering.
00:09.040: But I'm getting the idea here.
00:09.040: I think that when you label when you drop markers on a clip,
00:09.040: or at 12, if it's time of day time code or
00:09.040: And I've never even shared that with anybody around the office.
00:09.120: I saw that one for me, Fenwick.
00:09.120: And yes, I know I should have just bought Automatic Duck, but I don't know.
00:09.120: I was in it all day today.
00:09.200: Yeah, I guess.
00:09.280: But when you do two a week like we've been doing, it goes pretty quickly, doesn't it?
00:09.280: But I agree.
00:09.280: And then you could start scrubbing through that one.
00:09.280: No, no, yeah, you're right.
00:09.280: And frankly,
00:09.280: Yep.
00:09.280: One of these days I'll get better at doing these wrap-ups.
00:09.360: Alex Golner still says ought.
00:09.360: Are you kidding?
00:09.360: And I mean, it was one of those things where I was, sure, I had all the power.
00:09.360: Okay, so let me ask you a question because you're kind of touching on something that is um that I
00:09.360: These people, they're wonderful people.
00:09.440: Okay.
00:09.520: Most notably, this was used in taking a Final Cut 7 timeline.
00:09.520: Yeah, there's some sort of language in the file.
00:09.520: But I am willing to entertain the idea that maybe it will.
00:09.600: Well, it does help if you have a big commute.
00:09.600: So, like, if you wanted to.
00:09.600: And so it wasn't very ideal.
00:09.680: Well, we, the company still exists, but we.
00:09.680: And I can remember going around to these users groups in 2001 and 2002.
00:09.680: It's all duplicated on five
00:09.680: I can't remember
00:09.680: Yeah, so as long as you're using the timeline index.
00:09.680: It will.
00:09.760: And I'm like
00:09.760: Well, I
00:09.920: So, yes, you could do essentially
00:09.920: Explain to me why you want to see the time code.
00:09.920: There's another thing.
00:09.920: So, for that episode or the show notes, I'm trying to say.
00:10.000: So yeah, so we were in development at the CS6 cycle at that point.
00:10.000: I don't know.
00:10.000: When you're trimming.
00:10.080: Okay.
00:10.080: It just might be a little bit different.
00:10.080: And I apologize, you can skip forward a couple of minutes if you've heard me yammer on about this before.
00:10.080: So whatever.
00:10.160: Alliance based on strategy.
00:10.160: And so I had this one section of video that I wanted to.
00:10.160: Now, it there it it's not going to hurt it to leave it expanded because sometimes in
00:10.240: Where somebody referred to you by name.
00:10.240: Right.
00:10.240: Okay, explain to me what you were trying to do in After Effects.
00:10.240: You're never a registered user, whatever.
00:10.320: How about if we spend a little time
00:10.320: But literally,
00:10.320: com
00:10.400: Not because those programs suck, but because there's for something simple.
00:10.480: com/slash, and then a capital FCG for Final Cut Grill.
00:10.560: How are you doing, Wes?
00:10.560: You're an idiot.
00:10.560: So what I always do is
00:10.560: My family took a motorhome and drove from Seattle, which is where I live.
00:10.560: You need to know why you put it there, and colors help you do that.
00:10.560: If you would start to type the name of the
00:10.560: I get that.
00:10.640: mov, and it's a ProResk four by four file or whatever.
00:10.640: Okay?
00:10.720: I mean, I just am not quite to the point where I feel confident.
00:10.720: Okay, so there's a few ways to do what you want to do.
00:10.720: That'd be cool.
00:10.800: It looks really cool.
00:10.800: Make me a screen flow of
00:10.800: Westplate.
00:10.880: And we'll get like
00:10.880: Is that how you do it?
00:10.880: They've even sent me the software.
00:10.960: I'm sure you hear that all the time.
00:10.960: I.
00:10.960: I do that too.
00:10.960: Right.
00:10.960: And this is an important thing to kind of
00:11.040: S signed, Randy Eubelos.
00:11.040: And so while I was working at Adobe,
00:11.040: I don't care if you do have the Freddie Mercury playback engine behind it.
00:11.040: I think Premiere Pro just recently got.
00:11.040: So I need to be able to say, hey, I'm done with this section or whatever.
00:11.040: And there I haven't figured out a way to get around it entirely.
00:11.120: But I just
00:11.120: And I know that in how I did it in my Adobe world.
00:11.120: It's interesting.
00:11.200: But
00:11.200: I do it when I'm.
00:11.200: But I fix stuff all the time, and I don't think I'm a total hack.
00:11.280: Yeah.
00:11.280: And I think what you are assuming
00:11.360: So I tested the product.
00:11.440: com.
00:11.440: You know, it's like, oh.
00:11.520: Oh, yeah, exactly.
00:11.520: Alright, later, later.
00:11.600: One of your
00:11.680: At any rate.
00:11.760: Yeah, I I got you.
00:11.760: com/slash films.
00:11.760: So, anyway.
00:11.840: I mean, I had been pretty
00:11.920: And apparently if you
00:11.920: Oh, here it is.
00:11.920: Exactly.
00:11.920: Is probably a better question.
00:12.080: I want to make sure I use that.
00:12.160: The great Karnak.
00:12.240: Like, when am I going to finally do it?
00:12.240: You'd expect that.
00:12.240: Yeah.
00:12.320: Actually, I think
00:12.320: There's chapter markers and
00:12.320: I was dumb.
00:12.320: But
00:12.480: Right.
00:12.480: So.
00:12.640: But let's say my clip name was like
00:12.720: And I had this feeling that.
00:12.800: Wha when did when did you write Automatic Duck?
00:12.800: Using Dynamic Link.
00:12.960: I told
00:12.960: And and that's why I'm not.
00:13.040: So
00:13.120: And I couldn't remember at the time
00:13.520: Okay.
00:13.520: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:14.160: Um
00:14.400: It