Episode 90
FCG090 - Color Grading and FCPX (feat. Zeb Chadfield)
From VHS cuts only edits to FCPX, Zeb Chadfield has done it all over the years. As a broadcast colorist and the last eyes on a piece before it goest to air, Zeb has a unique view of what Final Cut Pro X does, and does well. This discussion spends a fair amount of time on coloring and Davinci Resolve workflow.
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Featuring
- Chris Fenwick
- Zeb Chadfield - @PanoptikTV
Transcription
00:00.001: You can record directly into Avid compatible MXFs, so you don't have to import them or anything.
00:00.001: She usually quite often will just will send the tape out and just here digits for me, you know?
00:00.001: Let me just type here Tour de France.
00:00.080: DaVinci Resolve has a really, really powerful one.
00:00.080: Took that into Final Cut 10 and then sent it from there into Resolve.
00:00.160: Disgusting like obsession, and what's really funny is my friend Carl Olson, who I used to do digital convergence with
00:00.160: Huh, what?
00:00.160: Didn't really recognize him, and then I saw his badge said Alex, and I was like, Are you Alex 4D?
00:00.160: The exchange rate was probably two to one or something, so it's probably about four grandma.
00:00.160: like each way um for um for the office really that's nice it's pretty sweet um yeah so um
00:00.160: Free for experience, weekends, and after work, and all that.
00:00.160: to me and then um my sort of approach with that because I work in finishing so I don't I don't um cut um I I always I've kind of
00:00.160: get my head around the back end, how how all that works, because um, you know, if you can't understand that, then it's very hard to fix problems if you encounter them when you're down your in the finish.
00:00.160: And so for people that don't know, a Terranex is a it's like a single rec unit box.
00:00.160: for conversion, right?
00:00.160: if when H D came along, everyone went, Yeah, we're getting rid of all these stupid frame rates and we're gonna go with um we'll have internationally twenty four or forty eight
00:00.160: it's just make would make life easy and and everything would um be cross compatible with um with cinema and back and forth.
00:00.160: But over here, it wouldn't it wouldn't necessarily be a problem depending on what they're running.
00:00.160: can get pretty pretty.
00:00.160: you know, all that kind of stuff.
00:00.160: everything I have right now and start using this, they're they're saying that this is this is where they're going.
00:00.160: that says use proxy media and I would be linked to the source media.
00:00.160: Film on my iPhone with my nephews.
00:00.160: Cut properly, but literally anything I could chuck in there.
00:00.160: Uh, what was it?
00:00.160: I'm in sync and make sure everything's you know, I need to do that that live and be able to hear
00:00.160: I'll check everything ten times to make sure it's perfect.
00:00.160: chain like up to sixteen channels, I think.
00:00.160: grading panels is is a bit slow for my liking.
00:00.160: Center over to Final Cut 10 and it was flying.
00:00.160: Final Cut.
00:00.160: Yeah, yeah.
00:00.160: We used to have to do at Navid, where you would have to go through each shot that has an effect of some sort and mix that down, and then you could send it through and link back easily enough.
00:00.160: used that before Apple Portal.
00:00.160: That was my sort of first big Resolve job on the new Mac Pro.
00:00.160: That was my first one with the new beast.
00:00.160: to render by comparison to during three times real real time.
00:00.160: You call it a LUT.
00:00.160: Potentially turn into a bunch of fiddling, but I mean, you could do that, you would do that into that's like a pretty standard sort of DIT workflow a lot of the time.
00:00.160: XQ, was it XQ that just came out not so long ago?
00:00.160: a dead pixel or something like that, I can just chuck that straight onto the whole time line as an as an effect, and that's going to fix the dead pixel wherever it is using the plug-in and resolve.
00:00.160: Fantastic.
00:00.160: Because software keeps updating and technology keeps changing, and I keep wanting to utilize the best parts of whatever software I need to.
00:00.160: He's actually very happy with the software.
00:00.160: But the ten one two, ten one three version, the main thing, it really is a big deal.
00:00.240: Hey, we have a fun show today.
00:00.240: It's all about the resolve, final cut, and the back and the forth.
00:00.240: the temp files and he was like, hey, can you get the uh can you get me the the things, the uh the full res versions?
00:00.240: in order to talk to um Zeb in in uh London.
00:00.240: I just uh downloaded uh th three songs for a little five-minute piece that I was cutting uh uh just today.
00:00.240: So thank you Premium Beat for supporting what we're doing here.
00:00.240: to to uh hunt you down eventually.
00:00.240: colorists and the coloristos.
00:00.240: Like I tell you, you know, wi when you I'll give you a little uh hint here.
00:00.240: Yeah.
00:00.240: in like Australia or England or any other English speaking countries.
00:00.240: you do have quite a lot of uh Australian and Kiwi and British guests and stuff, so I'm guessing you know people everywhere are listening.
00:00.240: It's daunting.
00:00.240: and on and recording shows and stuff, but he's got this crap icon photo and that doesn't look a single thing like him.
00:00.240: They're your friend, or you know them, and you're like, Oh, hey, how's it going?
00:00.240: And then uh my dad always just says that I'm out hanging out with Tom Cruise and things to people, so I feel really weird.
00:00.240: uh the Fast Show and um and Monty Python and uh all that kind of comedy, British comedy, young ones and um and started shooting stuff with my friends uh on one of those big old VHS um JVC cameras.
00:00.240: Yeah, it was all I just I didn't know any of the stuff existed 'cause we didn't have like I didn't have the internet like I'd never used a computer till I was about 18.
00:00.240: For us with your parents, right?
00:00.240: off a friend who was g actually going to university.
00:00.240: I was down in Australia in like 2002 and I remember having a conversation with a guy at a computer store once and he said
00:00.240: He said because of Internet speeds and the way that you guys were pay down well, you guys, I'm l I'm sorry, I apologize, I'm lumping all three.
00:00.240: I don't think I had broadband ever when I lived in New Zealand.
00:00.240: Yeah, got dodgy copy of Final Cut.
00:00.240: it was the stunt coordinator and wanted to chop together choreography to show the director and sort of show how it would look on screen.
00:00.240: setup, so that was really easy.
00:00.240: whole system's just uh discontinued and and they replace it with something completely foreign.
00:00.240: for me doing that side of the job, you really have to understand the complete sort of underworkings of everything.
00:00.240: did avid conforms and sort of, you know, um batch capturing from all the tapes from digis and all the rest of it just to
00:00.240: People you'll have a tech, and you could very much like you could say, Hey, this is freaking out.
00:00.240: But it's not for me, it's not very time efficient.
00:00.240: excuse me, if you've got a program that's all shot rushes and everything's done nice and it's really simple, but you know, um about probably sixty, seventy percent of what I do is documentaries that's filled with archive and you know you've got wrong frame rates and
00:00.240: you know, couple that with a hyperdeck or a KyPro or something, and you can just run stra straight through into Media.
00:00.240: you know, from what I understand, we should try the Terranex.
00:00.240: and you have to kind of track down where it all went wrong, and it just becomes so much more work because the hardest thing is you get a bunch of they're doing their job, but a lot of junior operators
00:00.240: It's easy to do.
00:00.240: You're about to start me on like a rant and my my big cup of coffee that I've just um dr drunk is probably going to be kicking into.
00:00.240: And they won't really understand.
00:00.240: conversions and stuff that I spend a lot of my life dealing with.
00:00.240: you know, you I've travelled sort of all over America and most of the places you go there's there's still not H D and and and there's still um
00:00.240: four, three, four, three tallies all over the place, same throughout Europe.
00:00.240: or anything.
00:00.240: tech thing and it's not really relevant.
00:00.240: And when on one page they're telling us that every frame the start of each part needs to come in on the first frame
00:00.240: frame of picture has to be at like I forget what it was, something like forty two zero zero, but forty two zero zero doesn't exist.
00:00.240: No, you don't do that.
00:00.240: People importing H.
00:00.240: Yeah, so that's goes back to that.
00:00.240: a tool like Final Cut does in terms of making these things easier or problematic in terms of true broadcast work.
00:00.240: Anyway, playing with it and seeing just right from day one, they have that proxy on off tick box and automatic creation of proxies and optimized media.
00:00.240: cameras all from different manufacturers and you know, it's it's getting crazy.
00:00.240: have it optimize your media or have it create your proxy media and just have that tick box turned on and then work away
00:00.240: As you would.
00:00.240: Anything that's wrong with it is actually wrong with the source.
00:00.240: Yeah.
00:00.240: make sure that stuff actually gets to go to air.
00:00.240: caption that's just over over the safe area, all that sort of stuff.
00:00.240: Media.
00:00.240: proxy or or you know s somewhere just the stuff I choose to proxy like yeah because in this particular piece I had GoPro footage I have DSLR I had I think I had some ARI in it
00:00.240: things.
00:00.240: put my fingers on the they kind of didn't have a lot of the stuff that just made you know it just makes the end result better without the extra work you know so if I can if I can do that like anything I can um use to to do that
00:00.240: options.
00:00.240: the M and E and make sure it's at the right point and I've got the right material on there and sort of like a quality control sort of thing.
00:00.240: Like, I need to launch Final Cut here.
00:00.240: hopefully if I've got two days, sometimes they'll cram it all into one day.
00:00.240: do a mix down and then bring in an EDL to chop it up.
00:00.240: I think they do have a really refined like it's almost like they're sharing some some some knowledge in the in the backrooms of Black Magic and
00:00.240: Yeah, auditions.
00:00.240: So you could bring that XML into a separate track and then just manually just make your way through and just blade tool every cut point and copy the transitions across.
00:00.240: accessing the raw source media.
00:00.240: into Resolve link to the media.
00:00.240: Post place, and they are sort of been trained up at the moment to do all that sort of stuff.
00:00.240: broadcast world for most things.
00:00.240: A different metaphor.
00:00.240: What do they call it?
00:00.240: act with color.
00:00.240: Just again, it's a speed thing.
00:00.240: we could do the grade and online at the same time, and then I can sort of quickly export the grade straight into the online and then play out at the end of the
00:00.240: that was a big deal for me.
00:00.240: the day to to file for delivery or to tape whatever.
00:00.240: And then if you named him a certain way and put him in a shared location, he could go, Oh, yeah, let me you know, here's the exteriors, here's the sit down interview, here's the confessional, here you know, whatever.
00:00.240: Yeah, yeah.
00:00.240: with like a proxy workflow in mind.
00:00.240: with the use of LUTs, because obviously, it used to be just used if you were outputting to film to just compensate for the color change that you would get from different film stock.
00:00.240: I guess previs, maybe, to use a word from our graphics friends.
00:00.240: And it's the same with any red it's not just an Apple friend thing.
00:00.240: you know, the craft is kind of the same regardless of what you use.
00:00.240: um how to move things.
00:00.240: and output titles, like done all the titles for a program a couple of months ago and output all the files with alpha channels straight out of ten.
00:00.240: into Avid just because the text in Avid's really soft.
00:00.240: Zeb, you're going to have to come back.
00:00.240: I guess they call it like NLE agnostic or probably grade system and NLE agnostic.
00:00.240: The color boards get three.
00:00.240: Of the way Apple Color worked.
00:00.240: of what the color board is.
00:00.240: for wheels.
00:00.240: Let's go now.
00:00.240: And you can click on that guy, and you can leave me a little voicemail, and we can roll those into the show.
00:00.240: I've talked about this many times on the show.
00:00.240: Choose whatever you want.
00:00.240: No, we'll be back Monday the end of the weekend with another episode of the Grill.
00:00.320: if you will, at their upcoming website upgrade.
00:00.320: And you know, he's got a ton of followers and a very interesting feed with all kinds of little tidbits about broadcast television and things like that.
00:00.320: Yeah, I used to I do that all the time with v you know, people always say, you know, one of these days we're going to have interactive television.
00:00.320: find I I'd spend more time trying to figure out which album to listen to next, whereas now I could just have a steady stream of podcasts.
00:00.320: Somebody else tweeted me just the other day saying, Whatever you do, don't stop doing shows.
00:00.320: Yeah, well I mean that's how I heard about your show as well, 'cause I'd listened to Convergence and I listened to the episode where you were talking about the starting one, and then I sort of kept my eye out for it.
00:00.320: You know, the grow was just I don't I don't know what I was thinking when I started this one.
00:00.320: But so then Carl pointed out that you can actually go and change your iTunes settings to different countries.
00:00.320: This last year at NAB, this guy comes up to me, goes, Chris Fenwick and I looked at him and I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't
00:00.320: And I'm looking I'm like, I I'm sorry, I don't recognize you.
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: realized that I could maybe use you know how you could do a you could do a pause on the record deck and then spool the other one and then hit play and then unpause and you would get a really nice clean cut going between decks.
00:00.320: And I grew up looking after penguins.
00:00.320: But at least in Australia, the way that they were paying for their Internet speed was that and this just seems so archaic, but
00:00.320: Yeah, I don't know.
00:00.320: And it was so expensive that he said it was actually more expensive to steal a copy of Photoshop than it was to just go to the store and buy it.
00:00.320: I think we're on dial-up the whole time.
00:00.320: So he chatted to me, and then he wanted me to come and train him to do editing, to chop together.
00:00.320: And so and obviously, with any editor that's used to editing in one system, you get a bit grumpy about making a move to a different system or if you're
00:00.320: Again, that's part of the longer story, but I do I grade an online and that's become my my favorite parts.
00:00.320: it's you know, he's so down at the you know, the frame level, it's that whole back in.
00:00.320: Somebody around who really knows all of it.
00:00.320: Like, it's pretty much the standard, and that's by Nalan Wilcox.
00:00.320: So I'm actually I'm a big advocate of the Terranx.
00:00.320: beta SP and you have to quote unquote bump it up to H D.
00:00.320: At this stage, like I'll try every other option because, of course, I always want my mundane things that I don't really want to be fucking around with to speed up if I can.
00:00.320: we monkeyed around and came up with a software solution, and I can't remember exactly what it was now, but I was even saying
00:00.320: Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:00.320: They said, Oh yeah, and we have to have it we have to have a fifty frames per second, which I guess would be twenty four interlate.
00:00.320: They probably just have a a standard that someone's just pulled from something else and just told you to adhere to it and not really thought about why they're asking you to do that or
00:00.320: the making versions that are cross compatible with SD down conversion for broadcast and all that kind of thing would just be an a nightmare.
00:00.320: Layout artist copy and pasted it, but they never went in and actually put in the actual values.
00:00.320: Not when the green value is that l is that high.
00:00.320: Something and but you know, typically people just import it and think they've imported it right and not really question it and
00:00.320: Yeah, so I mean, in when Final Cut X first came out, I got it on day one, and I was working at a big post house at the time.
00:00.320: just kind of poo-pooed it.
00:00.320: um just for that.
00:00.320: that working in tallywork where you're on shared storage and space is limited and the amount of rushes that people are shooting is just going up and up and up and up and up, we're getting stuff back on ten or fifteen different
00:00.320: solid proxy workflow built into the app is huge.
00:00.320: All the people that come before me from screwing everything up.
00:00.320: So what you're saying is that the proxy allows the editor to just edit, and then you have access to all of his raw media.
00:00.320: And it was some red.
00:00.320: at least in my world, I'm not really worried about performance issues.
00:00.320: because I didn't I had so much media that it was completely inconceivable that I was going to proxy all of it.
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: um and doing you know nice moves and um A to B moves and you know, all that kind of stuff.
00:00.320: quicker and easier.
00:00.320: Let me ask you a question.
00:00.320: Mute a uh uh I'm using the same word two different ways.
00:00.320: you know, play forward and all that kind of stuff.
00:00.320: You know, can be 100% confident what I'm delivering is the exact right assignment.
00:00.320: Fully admit, I'm kind of making this up because I don't do what you're doing.
00:00.320: Okay, so Zeb, if you don't mind, I'm going to ask you a question for my friend Ben Consoli.
00:00.320: Through resolve and back.
00:00.320: um classic ten avid premiere wha whatever, chuck it into Resolve, do my grade, send it back, do you know, and then the next day I I you know
00:00.320: look right and link correctly.
00:00.320: you pregrade it in ten.
00:00.320: a red job, which was originally cut on Premiere, and then I found Premiere was being a bit clunky, so I thought I'd give it a test in Final Cut ten.
00:00.320: But yeah, so yeah, getting it back from Resolve.
00:00.320: And not using scene detection, but by using the XML, you're going to cut up the master kickout.
00:00.320: So since version seven zero three, there's a setting when you're exporting an AAF, you can say mix down effects to V one.
00:00.320: But the rest of the source media will just link to the source media.
00:00.320: they've got some cool stuff in there.
00:00.320: Wow.
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: One third a forty-five minute show in fifteen minutes, essentially.
00:00.320: Yes, whoever is doing bringing all the media into whatever editing system you're using, they could be applying them, or you could output the media straight from Resolve for the edit with the LU applied
00:00.320: the engineers, and I've said it a hundred times on the Panoptic feed, like they they just don't sleep.
00:00.320: How would you grade that as a as and again, bro how would you rank that on a scale of one to ten?
00:00.320: falls short?
00:00.320: You're probably going to be, you know, comparatively, it's probably going to be a similar sort of speed.
00:00.320: It's a patch, if you will, that where you can use, I believe it was the tangent panels to a great degree but not a complete degree with Funnel Cut ten.
00:00.320: Yeah, definitely.
00:00.320: you really need support for some sort of color wheel input device thing, which all the color grader boys really dig.
00:00.320: So, hey, you know, maybe we could get that.
00:00.320: what some people are referring to, like Oliver Peters refers to it as the 10.
00:00.320: Where are you storing the proxy media?
00:00.320: Um, that's it.
00:00.320: Episode 080, episode 80, about 10 episodes ago.
00:00.320: All right, so I think that's it for this episode.
00:00.400: return.
00:00.400: Final Cut 10.
00:00.400: Know where I know you from.
00:00.400: And um it's I'm the weirdo from the family who who does um strange um T V stuff.
00:00.400: learn this craft that I'm passionate about.
00:00.400: It was dodgy because I got it from the friend.
00:00.400: Everybody had a dial-up account, which was basically essentially free download.
00:00.400: Marches on, and now we have LTE downloads in our iPhone.
00:00.400: Yeah, I mean our our setup I think was a bit different to that but yeah, I don't really remember much of it when I was interesting how time
00:00.400: Um, I got the Teranx ob obviously 'cause of the price, but the quality of of the conversions is is so good.
00:00.400: you know, eight units or whatever of rack space tied up.
00:00.400: What the fuck is wrong with this?
00:00.400: Is twenty four frames in the US and twenty five in Great Britain.
00:00.400: Just explain explain like I'm five, which is a meme on Reddit.
00:00.400: And you start going through them.
00:00.400: But I was a little disappointed that the proxy checkbox was an all or nothing.
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: whole system or whole storage system.
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: from whatever NLE you're going to, you can just take the direct like source media straight in and back.
00:00.400: Ken Burnsy stuff on stills and captions, credits, clocks, slates, you know, the bars, bars and yeah, all that kind of stuff, and then create textless elements at the end of a program.
00:00.400: if you want a surefire way to get your cut straight out of whatever NLE you're in and then into a grade and then back to the NLE and know that it's all going to
00:00.400: Sorry, it's just for me should be done prior to me getting to it, really.
00:00.400: linked grades if they're if resolves accessing the same media and you use remote grading, it will automatically grade across the clip.
00:00.400: um next time you hit a shot and stuff like that.
00:00.400: of doing everything at full res.
00:00.400: So I would rank it about three, but n but not because of the software.
00:00.400: Again, that's much quicker than using the same plugin in Avid.
00:00.400: So, I'd be really interested to give that a go when I get some spare time and see what kind of results I get from that.
00:00.400: To use, but I've kind of gone off a nice tangent now.
00:00.480: the obsessive nature with which that you go to the iTunes and you look at the top two hundred list
00:00.480: to help out with some stuff.
00:00.480: any of that stuff had come out.
00:00.480: Needing to do standards conversion and arcing and all the rest of it.
00:00.480: in that sort of world, you're doing like hardware based frame conversions, right?
00:00.480: your uh b panoptic, you know, time code calculator.
00:00.480: Yeah, they'll have fifty fifty I I mean standard um yeah if I had delivered twenty four P to them would it w what would it do in the projection there?
00:00.480: Allows the editor, and let's be clear.
00:00.480: to go back and check things.
00:00.480: Afterwards?
00:00.480: I had thought, well, you know what?
00:00.480: And that was enough to allow me to deal with the red footage in a way that was smooth and doable.
00:00.480: Jack essentially on the back of that piece of hardware.
00:00.480: Would speak to properly.
00:00.480: Can you walk through the workflow from taking a time line in Final Cut 10 and getting it
00:00.480: My I've got a lot of people, especially people that have more time than me, are going to sit there and go like, oh, you can't do that.
00:00.480: If you go through the process, watch so from Final Cut 10, and I have done it plenty of times when I'm sort of testing workflows and stuff, and I did a
00:00.480: And anything that's in effect will be mixed down to V one.
00:00.480: Did a grade in Resolve and then kicked out a little what do they call it in the color world?
00:00.480: setup, video, hue and saturation.
00:00.480: That's the only place it falls down to the table.
00:00.480: Do you envision a future where you could do the you know, had all the power of Resolves color grading inside of Final Cut 10?
00:00.480: That ha, that's that's a very good idea.
00:00.480: Where the software stores its render files and its and its media files.
00:00.480: Two a week for as long as I can.
00:00.480: Summary shows on BBC in England.
00:00.560: Um, podcast wise?
00:00.560: And then when I started um uh when I started using um the big VHS camera and shooting stupid stuff with my mates
00:00.560: And they were doing a comedy sketch series, which was the main draw as well, because that's obviously what I really wanted to eventually get into doing.
00:00.560: When I was talking with Austin Flack, the avid editor, he was even admitting, he goes, Oh, yeah, there's a lot of that, you know, edit assist stuff I have a real hard time doing because
00:00.560: Kind of looked at it all a little bit differently, you know, and the way, you know, the obvious thing is that they're not telling me that I have to give up
00:00.560: Trying to replicate that with a new version of Media Composer that's going to be coming out, that's going to finally get resolution and independence, but it's not true resolution independence.
00:00.560: the draconian measures that are foisted upon you from the engineering staff
00:00.560: And in the States, PBS was the most difficult to get stuff through through or at least it used to be back when I used to work at a PBS station, where
00:00.560: Again, I just sort of knew that I would have to wait until broadcast monitor support came along so I could sort of interrogate everything properly again, see it pixel for pixel and all that kind of stuff.
00:00.560: And I can lay that up in Final Cut 10, and I can get the roles set right, and I can do almost everything.
00:00.560: Yeah.
00:00.560: And then also the and we all know that these things crop up, the little things that like, ah, yeah, they don't tell you this, but make sure you click on this box and do it in this order.
00:00.560: So I would probably take how would I do it?
00:00.560: Again, you could use scene detection, but um everything I do is about getting it done quickly.
00:00.560: So I'll use some method for chopping it up and resolve and then cracking on and just getting it done.
00:00.560: Yeah, so I don't know how they would relate to the colourboard.
00:00.560: So the the developers are really great.
00:00.560: To if you were, if your hands were tied and the only option you had was to do all of your color work in Final Cut 10
00:00.560: Hi.
00:00.560: we keep our library file very small and much more network friendly, if you will.
00:00.640: My little workflow tip, which is a tutorial on their website about how to swap those out.
00:00.640: like anything to do with the technology and a bit of comedy.
00:00.640: It's weird to think that literally I mean, I 'cause I can even look at the stats.
00:00.640: Yeah, the uh Alex Forty, yeah.
00:00.640: and then went over there and I worked for Apple for a while and I figured I'd use that to make contacts.
00:00.640: I'll always you know, I'm not s one of these guys that's going to sit here and just go like, Hardware's the best and it always will be.
00:00.640: through hardware is just twenty times faster and easier and better than any other result that I can get.
00:00.640: We've gotten rid of our last tape deck.
00:00.640: or it may be like, you know, twenty four I, twenty four P or whatever, and just have that as a standard and it and it you know
00:00.640: And when you do that, the the the you know, do it wrong.
00:00.640: And I'll have my SDI signal going into my reference monitor and also an SDI signal going into an audio D embedder, so I can have all the separate tracks going out into a mixer, and then I can sort of enable and disable tracks as I please.
00:00.640: Hmm, how would you do that?
00:00.640: Avid doesn't support 4K, so I will be doing a conform and resolve.
00:00.640: Would that would you be and I realize maybe not would it be acceptable for you to grade with the color board if you had panels?
00:00.640: the balls and all the buttons and whatnot, they kind of relate directly to what you're seeing on screen.
00:00.640: Again, thanks, Ben.
00:00.640: I think the way it works with color is fantastic, and the vignetting and inside-outside masks and all the rest of it, it's brilliant.
00:00.640: media encoder from Adobe and I'll try Compressor and I'll try Sorrens and Squeeze and Episode.
00:00.640: MVP Darrell.
00:00.720: Huh?
00:00.720: I'll try and I'll do like a a a short background story and then maybe if you if you're interested and want to talk it over more, we can do another show just about that 'cause it's um yeah, it's excessive.
00:00.720: somehow being passionate about I guess it started off with film.
00:00.720: Um but um we um I'd like just uh seen people copy videos and then um
00:00.720: But that was my first ever computer, and it cost about eight grand in New Zealand to buy that at the time.
00:00.720: each day, I know, yeah, a couple of times a week, getting them set up and running.
00:00.720: It's physically impossible, obviously.
00:00.720: And they'll give you a somewhat of an explanation, but it's like you got to be you have to have your engineering chops to be able to
00:00.720: With that, so I mean, that was the first thing for me, which was a big one.
00:00.720: I d I I tried to do a lot of um international re reversions of of stuff.
00:00.720: But for me specifically, being able to get multi track out and listen to them simultaneously.
00:00.720: for delivery, they go into the right channels.
00:00.720: It it treats it the same way color used to when I was using color or final touch when I when I because I started on um final touch was the first time I
00:00.720: Uh rank uh resolve today.
00:00.720: you can't get through Final Cut X really quickly when you're having to fiddle around with like your Wacom or your mouse with little pucks on screen.
00:00.800: Yeah, I um I I'm just always listening 'cause I I grade most of the time, um, and I'll pretty much always listen to podcasts.
00:00.800: Okay.
00:00.800: every day was like what I had set myself as a goal to I figured if I did an hour a day, then within a few years I would be an All I editor.
00:00.800: And that one thing alone for me, I was just like, this is going to be the best application that's ever been made for what I do.
00:00.800: Anyway, so Final Cut 10 right at the start, I just thought, you know, this is going to be great.
00:00.800: So just get to get to editing, get to storytelling.
00:00.800: will use the proxy.
00:00.800: If I were able to mute and unmute a role without stopping playback, would that solve the problem for you?
00:00.800: No, because it doesn't tell me that what I'm delivering has those channels assigned correctly.
00:00.800: That would read the role information and send each track out of a different
00:00.800: click through and just keep sort of enabling, disabling and tracking, just make sure every clip lines up and do a bit of prep like that.
00:00.800: If you were going to give that a gray, a mark, I don't want to use the word gray because it's confusing, but if you wanted to.
00:00.880: engine, it's an episode engine.
00:00.880: And I do have a question that I want to ask you for my friend Ben Consoli.
00:00.880: It was a piece that had a bunch of different media in it, and a handful of it was red media.
00:00.880: Like the tangent is one of them, and the is that the wave?
00:00.880: But with Resolve on the new Mac Pro, each episode, which is about forty five minutes long, would render out in about sixteen to seventeen minutes.
00:00.880: So, like, you could, in theory, if somebody was cutting down the hall, you could be going through his footage and going, oh, yeah, this is going to have to be treated like this, this, this, this, and this.
00:00.880: You're always going to be limited with your speed.
00:00.960: Hello, hello, welcome to another episode of Final Cut Grill.
00:00.960: you might want to check out on the there'll you know be a link and stuff like that.
00:00.960: What?
00:00.960: Well, it's it's weird or when it goes the opposite way.
00:00.960: I'll be editing in my hotel room for days on end, and then I go downstairs to go to dinner or something, and I run into faces in the elevator, and I'm like, uh, you don't know me, never mind, creepy.
00:00.960: And then I would edit tape to tape, so VHS editing.
00:00.960: then suddenly I thought, oh, maybe I can sort of put these together or compile them together, because we were doing sort of in camera and editing really to begin with.
00:00.960: then I sort of thought maybe there's a career in this.
00:00.960: I mean, realistically, the truth of it with HD and also going to Ultra HD is that there's not really any purpose for it.
00:00.960: 2997, and it was, you know, like I think it was an HD deliverable frame size
00:00.960: You know, recently I had a deliverable that was going to Europe for something, and even though everything was shot 29
00:00.960: that's when it's really irritating because that's our Bible, you know, like we sit there with a tech spec and just make sure every single item is ticked and done and perfect.
00:00.960: or have something done to it, then yeah, no, that would be the end of the job.
00:00.960: To have that would be great.
00:00.960: I mean, so that's kind of the workaround.
00:00.960: It sure seems that way, doesn't it?
00:00.960: Rank it, let's say, on a scale of one to ten, meaning one is I'm sitting in front of one of my bolt old beta SP machines and I have
00:00.960: Save our media in place or leave media in place when we import it.
00:01.040: And it's it's it's it's funny.
00:01.040: And he was running a post production company for a small produ it was a po in house post for a production company called Crackerjack Productions.
00:01.040: who you guys have over there as well, so you're probably familiar.
00:01.040: And typically we have it set for quality because we're all quality hounds and we want to see our images look really good.
00:01.040: major Final Cut problem that I saw has been sort of like a deal breaker until something gets resolved.
00:01.040: So you get those into Resolve now as well.
00:01.040: you know, it's it's just too slow.
00:01.040: Okay, Daryl.
00:01.120: And then the the film The Last Samurai was filmed in my hometown, which is a place called New Plymouth.
00:01.120: And then so yeah, then I was over there and dealing with all that and making contacts and just helping out anyone I could for
00:01.120: And so those are those are really the really irritating things because everything does have to be frame accurate.
00:01.120: 264 files into Avid, and you do have to tell it if the source is RGB or YUV or RGB or REC.
00:01.120: and they're bearded chefs.
00:01.120: But when I want to actually do a review, I want to be able to have all those channels coming out properly and be able to flick on like an external box through those SDI audio channels to make sure
00:01.120: So if I'm doing that, say I'm doing a proper Q C, I would like to be able to play it from start to finish and not have to sit there and enable, disable and
00:01.120: And that would be it.
00:01.120: Like you got everything but the balls.
00:01.200: What are you talking about?
00:01.200: It's very weird, but it's a privilege that people even bother listening.
00:01.200: Yeah, yeah, or even downloaded archive from from various archive sites.
00:01.200: of the second, and then at the end of the part you have to have two frames of black before the start of the next part, but then the next part needs to come on the first frame of the second.
00:01.200: branding guidelines.
00:01.200: just for the sake of it being a bit easier and you get sort of various links from the source media and you can have
00:01.200: It's a potential interesting workflow.
00:01.280: So it's quite interesting.
00:01.280: It's like frightening to think what we used to do.
00:01.280: Those kind of things drive me nuts.
00:01.280: What you want to do is you want to use the the R G B values.
00:01.280: Yeah.
00:01.280: So I'll have my SDI signal coming out of my and my systems.
00:01.280: So the tricky thing in my line of work, like I've said, it's all very, very fast paced.
00:01.280: It falls short on the in uh interaction, like being able to it's it's literally just the panel side of things.
00:01.280: I mean, I would I would love that.
00:01.280: He and I also talked that eventually we're going to when we come back with more cafe shows.
00:01.360: Hello, Chris.
00:01.360: It's so easy to do to just like think that we we're so used to computers just like solving problems for us and a lot of times we over trust them.
00:01.360: Again, it's it adds to the quality of what I can deliver.
00:01.360: I think that I'd have to give it like an eight or nine.
00:01.360: But yes, in general, I would happily just be on Resolve all the time.
00:01.360: This is a great chat.
00:01.360: You know, as I've mentioned many times before in the past on the show, that if you go to Digital Cinema Cafe on the right-hand side, there's a little tab.
00:01.360: I was just wondering what does the next iteration of Final Cut Pro 10 offers and new features?
00:01.440: you would pay for every megabyte both down and up that you did if you had a high speed account.
00:01.440: So it was very much just a pro-creative industry.
00:01.440: Yeah, I I agree.
00:01.440: So and it kind of it's made it possible for us to potentially do on really fast turnaround programs when you get something that's on air tomorrow.
00:01.440: And but you know, the the technology is the same as i when you're limited to actually interacting with your mouse or Wacom.
00:01.520: Well, it depends on the delivery.
00:01.520: My pet P Viz is when I get um and this is slightly different, but it's similar in that you're looking at the letter of the law.
00:01.520: Yeah.
00:01.520: a bunch of stuff where you might in Resolve, you're looking at the rushes on set and you can be applying rough looks with the DP and then you could generate those as LUTs and then
00:01.520: I think he recently published a set of and I don't even know what you call it.
00:01.520: Choose five.
00:01.520: Uh that's your Monday episode.
00:01.600: So Zeb, tell me a little bit about your background.
00:01.600: That's what I'm saying.
00:01.600: We know you don't edit anything out, Chris.
00:01.600: I wouldn't in in a Final Cart 10 world, I wouldn't need to do a conform.
00:01.680: It is astonishing.
00:01.680: But the software I could see was was amazing.
00:01.680: And what I ended up doing, and it was this is a feature that I think a lot of people forget about because by and large
00:01.680: So I mean, the situation in broadcast is more for using that in shared storage.
00:01.680: And so when I work with the color board, even though the way it works is different, it feels like the way that it treats the color and brightness and everything.
00:01.680: And if people do know, believe me, they're not going to tell you because they like their jobs too much.
00:01.760: Yeah, and then eventually the cameras got better, and we got like DV cameras and stuff like that, and sort of carried on doing it.
00:01.760: Yeah, I have a question for you, and this is a little bit off topic, but I'm sure you could answer it given
00:01.760: You literally have somebody just staring down a scope and they'll see like one little thing wrong and they'll reject your whole show.
00:01.760: Can you walk through both the sort of advertise, yep, this is the way it should work
00:01.840: Now, what you could do, and I would not recommend you actually do this, but what a lot of people will do is they'll just color pick the swatches off of the PDF and go, Yep, got those, totally got it, moving on.
00:01.840: Metaphor, yeah, entirely.
00:01.840: But to be fair, I just want to point out, and Zeb did say this, that his biggest complaint about color grading in 10 is not the software.
00:01.920: And then so then I was basically self-taught on Final Cut, just figuring it out.
00:01.920: Yeah.
00:01.920: Is it does it not solve the problem to just enable and disable the role in the Timeline Index?
00:02.000: Yeah, basically.
00:02.000: And then and they got pointed to me 'cause it's a small town and I was the person who did editing.
00:02.000: So technically, I mean, unless the archive they had needed to be sort of I matched and replaced, like if they're working with all in regards to like standard
00:02.000: on separate tracks.
00:02.000: maths and science that went into that app is living in Final Cut ten.
00:02.000: So of the of the main color grading tools, what is your tool of choice?
00:02.000: And that's that's render rendering to DNX HD one eight five X, so ten bit DNX codec.
00:02.000: So I'm going to assume when you say the next generation the next iteration, you mean the current iteration, because as we all know, when it comes to all things Apple, nobody knows anything about what's coming up next.
00:02.080: Well, just to be able to have a two-way conversation rather than mutter to myself on the uh on the tube.
00:02.080: MacBook.
00:02.080: But I sort of sat there and I played with it.
00:02.080: Is that how do I say this?
00:02.080: I want to just hit go and be able to on my mixer just go like, you know, track three and four, track one and two and and so on and so forth if I've got more tracks.
00:02.160: Yeah.
00:02.160: I had to feed penguins before I went to school and things like that.
00:02.160: You were talking about the digit and frame conversions.
00:02.160: And then maybe anything that doesn't have a proxy just gets colored in your time line differently or made sort of gray or whatever.
00:02.160: And I mean, if that could integrate with panels and would probably work around it.
00:02.160: It was a lot of fun.
00:02.160: At any rate, great talking to Zeb, and I got to imagine he'll be back again.
00:02.160: And let's I think I have this potted up.
00:02.240: And then he went on vacation, and while he was on vacation, I came up with the idea of doing a cafe.
00:02.240: I'm not sure about that.
00:02.240: Now will you then do a whole bunch of um conforming
00:02.240: I never used the proxy thing, but I'm going to give it a go.
00:02.240: I'm sorry, I totally interrupted you.
00:02.240: It's really to do a pre-grade in the NLE, make sure you're happy with the program as it is.
00:02.240: But you need to take in that situation, you would take a mix down of the program as it was in Final Cut ten as well, and just sort of either put it on another track with opacity or sort of
00:02.240: I mean, you can kind of jump past a a bunch of those problems, but it's just not a reality in my
00:02.240: And it was interesting.
00:02.240: But I gotta think there's gotta be you know, there's some smart people out there.
00:02.320: And it's at that stage it's um it's gone through like two or three layers of badly convert been converted
00:02.320: Maybe they would do it like you say, where you just anything that does that has a proxy.
00:02.320: You're saying that if I'm rolling, if I was rolling, if I had the ability to roll and
00:02.320: I did a bear grill series over here called The Island where Bear Grills, where he just drops a bunch of people on an island.
00:02.400: You know, I met Zeb Chadfield tonight on through Twitter.
00:02.400: They really have to interrogate all the footage and look at it.
00:02.400: It's not something that someone's done wrong.
00:02.400: So basically I could do everything in Final Fuck 10 if um if that was in there.
00:02.400: Yeah, because you can't get an EDL out straight out of 10.
00:02.400: So you would have proxy media with the LUT applied, and then you would still connect back to your source media.
00:02.480: I mean, they should um uh make it um refinable.
00:02.480: Yeah.
00:02.480: So basically, you rough it in.
00:02.480: Something like that, yeah.
00:02.480: I think I don't see why Apple couldn't work with somebody.
00:02.480: I don't know about forever, but certainly for a while now.
00:02.560: We just ran around and made a spy movie, and then I sat with them and edited it in Final Cut 10.
00:02.640: Hey, Zeb, how you doing?
00:02.640: And Tom Parris talks a lot about broadcast monitor calibration and stuff like that as well.
00:02.640: The the career story is uh is crazy 'cause it's uh it's all over the place.
00:02.640: I mean, we don't have any tape decks anymore.
00:02.640: Right.
00:02.640: You mentioned earlier that if you had access to use proper grading panels, like
00:02.640: That's a very good idea.
00:02.640: Where are you storing the render media?
00:02.640: I should probably be doing this someplace else.
00:02.720: You know, like I'll get a day to do a grade, a day to do it online and then it has to be out the door.
00:02.720: Yeah.
00:02.720: Yeah.
00:02.800: And somebody standing next to him started to go, Oh, dude, this is and he goes, No, no, don't tell him.
00:02.800: Then that would be my piece of software.
00:02.800: You can't just kind of keep flicking through shots and just bashing away on the panels.
00:02.800: And it helps other people find the show.
00:02.880: Um, I listen to um pretty much all really boring tally stuff.
00:02.880: You know, Ben Consoli and I tease each other about it all the time.
00:02.880: Yeah, because I remember Elekton.
00:02.880: And it doesn't surprise me that's the finishing guy.
00:02.880: And you know, we just we didn't have any taped ex around, it's kinda hard to do.
00:02.880: And then they'll ask you then they'll ask you to you know, on a 2997 delivery, there'll be like you know, last
00:02.880: So, so I mean, all of those audio options already exist in my SDI
00:02.880: Thanks so much for the comments on the iTunes.
00:02.960: And then eventually I managed to save enough money to get a Mac, which was like an OS nine
00:02.960: And it was like I never went to university or or even finished high school or anything.
00:02.960: Nope, it's got to be this.
00:02.960: And people will give you color swatches for the colors that are legit to use.
00:02.960: And then and then obviously, it's just kept kept evolving over the years.
00:02.960: That's technology is great.
00:02.960: That the main thing that we get with the 1012 1013 is that we get the ability to control.
00:03.040: Hold on, I'm going to have to make an edit here because I feel like a tarred for not remembering the guy's name.
00:03.040: Um and um speed wise, I mean, if you were doing using Final Cut seven um with a mouse or something, um
00:03.040: So maybe there's some shared code there, who knows?
00:03.120: Ranking.
00:03.120: I mean, so I I've I lived in Australia for eight years and I lived uh here i in the UK for for six.
00:03.120: So even just getting a song, you would leave downloading overnight.
00:03.120: Yeah, this would be a really good point to transition into what this show is about.
00:03.120: And I was doing some international versions of one of their shows recently and chucked them in there.
00:03.120: So and I want to being as pedantic as I am, check that as thoroughly as possible.
00:03.120: It always surprises me how much eye matching gets done in in conforming and color grading.
00:03.120: So maybe it's that they've developed that, you know, it would be developed a little bit differently.
00:03.200: I mean, because you worked in broadcast for a while, you've probably had it where you were sort of staring at a celebrity's face for a long time and then you run into them at a rap party or something and you think
00:03.200: I'm trying to remember what they're all called now.
00:03.200: Yeah.
00:03.200: So he makes a LUT from there.
00:03.280: And then they merged later on, they merged with well, they were bought out by Fremantle Media.
00:03.280: It is great, but still nothing comes close to hardware in that regard.
00:03.280: Yeah, it needs to be perfect.
00:03.280: He sh I somebody did a demo where they took a shot out of ten, sent it over to Resolve.
00:03.280: I can render it out a lot faster.
00:03.280: I'm a big advocate for staying in one system.
00:03.280: He said that the way it deals with the color very much reminded him.
00:03.360: It's a fun interview.
00:03.360: Um and uh and it was weird 'cause I kind of heard his voice and I s I looked at him and I was I
00:03.360: Yeah, man.
00:03.360: You know, they can just bring everything in as source.
00:03.360: Yeah, as soon as that came out, Resolve had support for it in a couple of days.
00:03.440: The biggest problem for us was the speed.
00:03.440: Oh, wait, this is the Friday.
00:03.520: Yeah, I think I tried uh a while back to have a chat, but uh you know it's uh it's fun listening to the show anyway, so it's uh it's cool to to have a chat and be able to
00:03.520: I think a few episodes ago I mentioned how, you know, it's
00:03.520: Um and um then um was that not when you say dodgy, was it dodgy because you got it from the friend or did he get it off the Internet?
00:03.520: I would I tried to do um some
00:03.520: I would probably take an XML of the cut at that point and then use that to chop it up.
00:03.520: Yeah.
00:03.600: And typically, with any system I've used to grade, it's pretty much real time to get my files out at the end of the day.
00:03.600: Yeah, yeah.
00:03.680: This just turned out to be a better time of day.
00:03.680: Yeah, and then they just go away.
00:03.680: It's like, ugh, you know, it's just no, that's fine.
00:03.680: And um but it's awful.
00:03.680: And then once you look into all the resizing tools, so right from day one, you know, there's a lot of the Ken Burnsey stuff for pen and zooming on stills and
00:03.760: You can totally tell somebody's pain of my life.
00:03.760: Yeah.
00:03.760: But what I want to do is be able to I need to review exactly what I'm delivering and know it's going to be correct.
00:03.760: Like some sort of audio interface box that the roles
00:03.760: It's like they'll have a red a new red thing will come out and they've you know, it's out straight away.
00:03.760: So that might be something to look back at if you want to hear more a lot more about the
00:03.840: It was probably dodgy because he probably got it off the internet, but I don't know if he could have got it.
00:03.840: And then eventually, one of my clients sort of put me in touch with someone who became like a mentor, Scott, this guy, Scott Rowan.
00:03.840: And even now in Resolve, you get your what do they call it in Final Cut?
00:03.840: So every project has its own different workflow.
00:03.840: So and I liked the nice, sharp, pretty text that I could get out of ten, so I did that.
00:03.920: This is 090 on the countdown to 100, 10 episodes away.
00:03.920: I kept wanting to say grading in the interview.
00:03.920: It it means the world to us and it's awesome.
00:03.920: And then we moved to Avid at that point.
00:03.920: All of my deliveries to broadcast, so it would just fail tech review and get sent back.
00:03.920: Uh not really.
00:03.920: So even if I set those the roles for those audio tracks to go to the right place, so when I export my file
00:03.920: I mean, I I use Nakoda Filmmaster and I'll use Basslight and I'll you know,
00:04.000: And yeah, it was kind of assumed I would probably go into something boat related because my dad was a fisherman and then runs a charter boat out to sea seals and stuff.
00:04.000: Yeah.
00:04.000: So if you if they've got a digital projector, it would most likely support twenty four or twenty nine nine seven.
00:04.000: But yeah, I think something like that would be great.
00:04.000: That was another really good example of Final Cut 10's power.
00:04.000: But again, that depends on the project.
00:04.000: And they, like I said before, they all have their own different sort of ways of dealing with color that are slightly different.
00:04.080: We hear all these things where you say, I'm going to make an edit, and then you just bother.
00:04.080: So all it needs is for Final Cut to actually say those roles go to those channels.
00:04.080: Yeah, one thirty.
00:04.160: I'm very well, man.
00:04.160: How long have you been in this business and what kind of stuff have you done?
00:04.160: So unless something needed to at that point be standards converted
00:04.160: But in the playback options in the viewer, there's a little pull down there, and there's a thing for better performance or better quality.
00:04.160: Yeah, I think it would be it would it would
00:04.160: That's very interesting.
00:04.160: I think I remember I definitely remember one of you guys talking about it, and I've been meaning to give it a test and see what I think.
00:04.240: It's made by Black Magic Now.
00:04.240: But really it's just to be backwards compatible.
00:04.240: But then you end up in an N alley as well and it's Y U V.
00:04.240: And at the time, it didn't have broadcast monitor support.
00:04.240: I've still at that point when I create that file, I've still not actually listened to those channels independently and
00:04.240: But then, yeah, if I've got you know, provided I've got the right amount of time, I'll then have the next day to go through and refine it, add, you know, resizes.
00:04.240: That time wise is the most effective because
00:04.240: Again, my Premier XML was having trouble at the time, this is a few years ago, coming into Resolve, but the FCP XML came in fine to Resolve.
00:04.240: And you can right click and switch auditions.
00:04.240: I can't remember where I saw it, and frankly, it may have been Ben Consoli.
00:04.240: It could probably have better restoration tools, but it's incredible.
00:04.240: All right, man, I'll let you go.
00:04.320: That's still expensive, but it was much better than eight.
00:04.320: Your ch your thought process.
00:04.320: You know, like we've got a few junior operators at my
00:04.400: Not just 'cause it's cheap.
00:04.400: It's it's it's for the amount of times we actually need it, you know, we don't have a whole lot of space and to have
00:04.400: Yeah, yeah.
00:04.400: So well, the thing is that there's like a a load of different ways to do it.
00:04.400: So let me get back to this line of question 'cause I and then we'll wrap it up here.
00:04.400: Later, later.
00:04.480: And then I decided to go to Sydney because there's obviously a lot more opportunity, a lot more work in Australia
00:04.480: So this would be like 99, 2000?
00:04.480: It it it it has to be has to be perfect.
00:04.480: So it will access the Avid Media file that's been created and that mix down.
00:04.480: Maybe that's the same one, or the element.
00:04.560: If you ever decide to make your own podcast, there's a there's a hobby that you're going to absorb that is really disgusting and horrible, and that is
00:04.560: It's just like it's an obsession.
00:04.560: And then when it comes back to me, I can just untick that and I've got access to all the source media untouched.
00:04.560: So it would be nice for them for us to be able to do it all the way that I would like it to be done, which is connecting to all the source media.
00:04.560: That would be like a one in terms of color grading.
00:04.560: I mean, it's slightly different, so you have to relearn a little bit.
00:04.640: Powerbook Titanium Power Book.
00:04.640: And if scene detection has, you know, one missed shot or something, that could create headaches for me down the line.
00:04.720: I want to thank the people from Premium Beat.
00:04.720: I do listen to Nerdist, but yeah, Tom Parrish is a good one for
00:04.720: And I mean, I can look at other ones, but I mean, it doesn't
00:04.800: And he talks a lot about his own workflows.
00:04.800: It sounds like I'm making this up, but it's real.
00:04.800: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04.800: But how does what do you think?
00:04.800: I mean, one dead pixel, one little line of blanking, you know, one
00:04.800: Great.
00:04.800: 12 slash 10.
00:04.880: Yeah, yeah, it's incredible.
00:04.880: And he was paying me more to do that than I was making in my job at the time because I was working at that point I was working in an appliance store.
00:04.880: And if you were to pull the plug on support for all of those different time codes in those different countries,
00:04.880: My pet peeve is when you start looking at it and you realize, oh, the R G B value for the blue square is the same as for the green square because some
00:04.880: I don't know if you'd get it over there, but there's this show here called Hairy Bikers, um, and it's about uh some chefs.
00:04.880: If I hit this button, we should be able to hear what he says.
00:04.960: I need the two a week.
00:04.960: You know, like, uh, I guess the real question is: if you had a piece of hardware, and this is actually very interesting to me, but I will
00:04.960: And so you could replicate something similar to that in Final Cut 10, but you would have to do it manually.
00:04.960: Yeah, yeah.
00:04.960: Yeah.
00:04.960: No, it's fine.
00:04.960: So I got one of those this week, and this is from Daryl.
00:04.960: Where are you storing the optimized media?
00:04.960: And Peter talked all about doing the Tour de France.
00:05.040: But it doesn't matter because the old website works great.
00:05.040: Yeah, yeah.
00:05.040: So the proxy and the optimize
00:05.040: They're mostly UltraStudio 4K at the moment, because that just works with everything.
00:05.040: And you know, Sam Messman, who's been on the show several times
00:05.040: And when people find the show, it's just good for everybody.
00:05.040: Sorry, this is the Friday episode of Final Cut Grill.
00:05.120: How are you?
00:05.120: I I was doing a um B V C job the other day um and um you know, and Avid and Final Cut and all of that, they they all have their own little algorithms for for up resin and I mean um
00:05.120: But yeah, apart from that, that's the big one for me because everything that I'm delivering will at least have a mix and an ME.
00:05.120: Let's figure it out.
00:05.200: It was just wicked slow.
00:05.200: Yeah, cool.
00:05.200: But I'll I'll work on Lightworks and Premiere and all the rest of it.
00:05.200: Please go leave those and rank the show with some stars.
00:05.280: And it was my friend Scott Simmons, who I've spoken to many times on the phone.
00:05.280: Like, um, we I mean, I
00:05.280: So I worked at Apple and and this was before the iPods and
00:05.280: That would be that's you're saying that's far and away better than any software.
00:05.280: Um so yeah, having that having a really
00:05.280: That's a really interesting observation that I just had never really thought of that
00:05.280: And so there was a lot of those sorts of features right from day one and Final Cut 10 that got me quite excited.
00:05.360: So it was stupidly expensive.
00:05.360: But they come in handy.
00:05.360: Uh why i d
00:05.360: You look at every shot and think, what's wrong with this?
00:05.360: Then you are you saying kick it out and do scene detection in Resolve?
00:05.360: Great.
00:05.440: It's on the what's the thing called?
00:05.440: And you know, there's multiple ways to swap them out.
00:05.440: Um but yeah, so that that happened.
00:05.440: Yeah.
00:05.440: I would just untick the box
00:05.440: I'm going to try the proxy.
00:05.440: So yeah, it's um I mean that
00:05.520: He does the Go Creative show, and we'll send each other screen grabs.
00:05.520: So to me, I was kind of looking through it and and I'm um having worked at Apple, I kind of and and and I've been a little bit of a fanboy.
00:05.520: All right, take it easy.
00:05.600: And that was purely from hearing him on the podcast talking to that's hysterical.
00:05.600: It's it's just I I go into places all the time, the conform has all be done, everything's all prepped and I'll pull it up and you just look at it and you just go
00:05.600: And when you've got a spec that is telling you for something to finish on one frame that doesn't exist, then you
00:05.600: They could have said this is where we're going and not sort of released it the way they did.
00:05.600: I mean, the the only other thing aside from that is grading, not being able to use a proper set of
00:05.600: It's fine.
00:05.680: Totally.
00:05.680: They just take all the media, whatever, frame rate, all the rest of it, and don't think about it.
00:05.680: At any rate, that's worth taking a look at episode 80 with Peter Wiggins.
00:05.760: Um at any rate, the conversation was very interesting because Zeb does a lot of color grading.
00:05.760: They're copying and pasting, you know, some tech
00:05.760: There was a lot of things in there that had been refined that had always pissed me off in Final Cut seven and and an Avid and and and Premier and any other in our Lego.
00:05.760: So that's huge.
00:05.760: He then goes back into Final Cut 10, and you can actually apply LUTs from the outside world.
00:05.840: And so, I mean, I used to do that initially.
00:05.840: So I'm still yet to find a software frame converter that I'm happy with.
00:05.840: That's the confusing part because obviously with the standard sort of HSL setup.
00:05.840: But the thing with that is, I don't think you would have access to the color science that's going on.
00:05.840: Uh so today, I mean, um
00:05.840: And maybe it's uh maybe it's four track pads or three track pads side by side instead of
00:05.920: I go, What are you talking about?
00:05.920: Can you sort it?
00:05.920: They they've bought it out and they sell it.
00:05.920: And Avid are trying to
00:05.920: So I'm sort of faking it here.
00:05.920: So and now correct me if I'm wrong, because for a second there it sounded like you were saying
00:05.920: Like as soon as Pro Pro is
00:05.920: Thanks for everything.
00:06.000: I mean, so in the big post houses, often you'll get
00:06.000: Okay, so here's the deal.
00:06.000: You know, like I've got an avid project coming up soon, and that's all been shot 4K.
00:06.000: And I recently picked up the Boris effects for Resolve as well.
00:06.000: And I also realize that a round color ball doesn't match the square metaphor, if you will.
00:06.080: I kept wanting to call it grading, but that obviously when you're talking about color grading tools, that's a bad word.
00:06.080: Yeah, it's a big deal.
00:06.080: But in the colorboard, it's like a different
00:06.080: 13 version, because it's basically the same thing, but there was a big bug fix with 10.
00:06.160: I mean, I'm sure software will eventually get there, but um
00:06.160: And I think that if people have never worked in a broadcast environment, you don't really understand
00:06.160: And I've just since day one, just kept chucking anything in there that I could.
00:06.160: Wow.
00:06.160: But this is a bigger deal.
00:06.240: You know, I used Libsyn to store the files.
00:06.240: Um, but uh yeah, so I mean I um started uh shooting, like I was obsessed when I was young with um
00:06.240: I'll get rid of it.
00:06.240: So if I'm doing international reversions, I might have a mix on track one and two and then an M and E on track two and three.
00:06.320: Well, that's the other thing he said is that in addition to having the broadband, which was very, very expensive.
00:06.320: And if I'm doing a job for Avid, like with the Hyper Deck, you can
00:06.320: Like I mean, it used to be a lot more over here everyone uses an Alchemist.
00:06.320: Yeah.
00:06.320: Sorry, Sam.
00:06.320: I'm glad it's difficult to come back for a chat.
00:06.320: And we always used to be able to do
00:06.400: Thanks for chasing me down.
00:06.400: So I'm pretty glad that you're outputting so much content, really.
00:06.400: Strange man, yeah, I did that happens with me at events.
00:06.400: I mean, my our speeds are up over 100 meg.
00:06.400: But it's just a standard here, whereas around the rest of the world, I've usually found that people use Terranx or various other things.
00:06.400: So maybe you could say anything um above H D.
00:06.400: That's one for your if I could sneak in the in the back door of Apple.
00:06.400: If I'm actually playing my timeline, yeah.
00:06.400: I'm going to have to wrap this up since it's getting late here.
00:06.480: I was finishing off and uh the producer had downloaded the um
00:06.480: But I'm from a family of like fishermen and hunters, so I'm not I'm from New Zealand originally.
00:06.480: I mean, you can look through um national geographic, like tech specs and um and discovery tech specs and you'll find like contradictions on on every other page.
00:06.480: What I ended up doing is just changing it to better performance.
00:06.480: And I think I mean, at the moment, I've had jobs where I've just sent stuff into Final Cut ten and just done all the moves on all the stills.
00:06.560: I think I mentioned on the last show that I got to see a sneak preview peek.
00:06.560: So or other places.
00:06.560: That would be it.
00:06.560: So I'd done loads of Resolve over the years.
00:06.640: Anyway, let's go now to this interview with Jeb Chadfield of Panoptic TV and he's over on the other side of the pond in London town.
00:06.640: So out of curiosity, what kind of stuff do you listen to?
00:06.640: So people would start to download stuff and they'd just leave the machine on for three days.
00:06.640: And it doesn't surprise me.
00:06.640: Explain like I'm five why is it that HD
00:06.640: Okay.
00:06.640: But I will say, in the current iteration, which is the
00:06.720: twenty gig hard drive.
00:06.720: They do.
00:06.720: Well since it's the end of my day and I'm really tired, I'm totally cool to just kind of slouch back and let you rant for a while.
00:06.720: So anything that helps us to achieve that is a big deal.
00:06.800: I've been yelling at my T V for years
00:06.800: But um
00:06.800: So I'm out arriving in the morning and I've got to get a program out of Final Car
00:06.800: But his real beef was just the physical interface.
00:06.800: We'll be back Friday.
00:06.880: So when I moved to Avid, I changed to Knights for a couple of months and
00:06.880: And I mean, if you've got that's that's fine if you
00:06.880: So if you had access to use those.
00:06.880: Like, um,
00:06.880: Same scale.
00:06.960: For me, as a finishing guy, it's going to prevent
00:06.960: All right, sleep well.
00:07.040: I mean, I've been following Zeb Panoptic TV on Twitter for a long time.
00:07.040: And also, Penoptic makes a time code calculator.
00:07.120: And then Now hold on, were you did you have like proper edit systems or did you just have two VCRs in the in the remotes?
00:07.120: Just chuck them in your media files folder and they just pop up.
00:07.120: Yeah.
00:07.120: And it's all to me it's very obviously wrong.
00:07.120: Like if every bit of media didn't have proxy media, I was going to have a bunch of red frames.
00:07.200: Um
00:07.200: I left when I was like fifteen.
00:07.200: Um but anyway, I'll sort of like skip it skip ahead.
00:07.200: But I used to do I'd spend an hour
00:07.200: So for me, it was unusable.
00:07.200: Just tick box done.
00:07.200: And you guys, you're always talking about it, but it's the audio
00:07.200: And then one last question.
00:07.200: And I've talked about this many times on the show.
00:07.280: My way works good for me.
00:07.280: And then
00:07.280: I want to see him a squirm
00:07.280: No, that's not like eight grand US.
00:07.280: But I think it is a
00:07.360: But I ran into Alex, is it Alex Golner at IBC a few weeks ago?
00:07.360: But we did have a thing just recently where we had to pull a bunch of archival stuff and
00:07.360: So as much as I can I can be confident in what I have done and I still
00:07.360: You know
00:07.440: And I used
00:07.440: And then
00:07.440: That's another thing that I get all the time.
00:07.440: So I want my yeah, I want my roles to represent potentially assign roles to tracks like audio output tracks.
00:07.440: But yeah,
00:07.440: And then ten being your ideal tool, one to ten.
00:07.440: So thank you for doing that.
00:07.520: The App Store.
00:07.520: I totally know what you mean.
00:07.520: And so I spent a couple of hours with him
00:07.520: Yeah.
00:07.520: And then you like
00:07.520: I mean, lot and lots of people use um the the standard seems to be software wise, seems to be um Telestream.
00:07.520: But now we're sort of using them in a whole different way for looks and for
00:07.520: So we can now store that stuff outside of the library, and in doing so,
00:07.600: And we get into an interesting discussion at the end about
00:07.600: Like the software is
00:07.600: This new iteration of where you store the media.
00:07.600: And we talked a lot about this recently when we talked to Peter Wiggins.
00:07.680: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07.680: So often with Avid now, there's a setting in there where
00:07.680: So if you grade one interview, it's likely that the whole interview will be graded.
00:07.680: Well, it's become resolved
00:07.760: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:07.760: What if something comes in and they're like, we need this?
00:07.760: It jumps the two frames for drop frame.
00:07.760: Drives me nuts.
00:07.760: And so when I brought in the red stuff, I said, Yep, proxy that.
00:07.760: So what it will do is it will it when you bring that into Resolve, that's kind of my favorite workflow at the moment because I'll take that into Resolve.
00:07.760: And I mean, the biggest thing for me in the resolve world is just that they
00:07.760: His early part of his career is quite interesting, and we may want to do that on a cafe episode one day.
00:07.840: I mean, you know, there's always got to be
00:07.840: You wouldn't be having having to do all these weird
00:07.840: So that's pretty incredible.
00:07.840: Yeah.
00:07.840: And yes, um, I'm gonna keep trying to do two
00:07.920: I've been, you know, so many people to talk to.
00:07.920: It was quite epic.
00:07.920: Right.
00:08.000: So he's always speaking to SpectraCal and those kind of people.
00:08.000: And it is like the cool way to do like like if you had like old
00:08.000: And so I have to do that.
00:08.000: But I will typically if I will do a pregrade process.
00:08.000: And you get you kind of get when you do enough grading in different systems, you get a feel for how they
00:08.000: I mean, I I
00:08.000: That was a fun chat.
00:08.080: And I'd never met him in real life.
00:08.080: I would like record young ones' episodes off TV, and then I'd do that to get rid of ad breaks.
00:08.080: Yeah.
00:08.080: But um so so resolve is your is your color grading tool of choice.
00:08.160: Yes.
00:08.160: And when that was filmed, someone was looking for an editor.
00:08.160: But what I ended up doing instead of
00:08.160: There's lots of really interesting workflows that have opened up with
00:08.160: And I'm always sort of trying different things.
00:08.240: You don't sort of go, Yeah, it looks all right and just move along.
00:08.240: And they will be they will have CMYK and RGB values
00:08.240: But it seems like if you had a piece of hardware
00:08.240: Take care.
00:08.320: Yeah, yeah.
00:08.320: So how does
00:08.320: But I will.
00:08.400: Yeah.
00:08.400: Oh, yes, understood.
00:08.480: So it's
00:08.480: I know you're just starting your day.
00:08.560: It may not be the best way for everybody else.
00:08.560: And you can look at the stats and you can look at countries around the world that are downloading.
00:08.560: Yeah, that's a huge thing.
00:08.640: I mean, that was it was huge, but it was kinda in my mind, it was like, Well, I'm getting this so that I can
00:08.640: Right, because you were raised by the wolves in the in the in the
00:08.640: But um in New Zealand I was there until I was about um nineteen or twenty and um
00:08.640: And most of the time.
00:08.640: And that was when I had my first sort of
00:08.640: So it's not it's not a particularly easy codec to
00:08.640: And I'm always sort of testing things
00:08.720: So like I can go see how it's ranking or not.
00:08.720: It's so funny.
00:08.720: And you're saying you want to be able to do that in the
00:08.720: Or, like, you, I think you've mentioned a few times the Hawaiiki colour or whatever.
00:08.720: This button right there.
00:08.800: It's late.
00:08.800: Yeah, that was the one where, you know, like Carl had kind of caught us all by surprise and he's like, Yeah, I'm stopping the show.
00:08.800: The versions, you know, when you can have auditions.
00:08.800: Yeah, yeah, it's irritating.
00:08.880: I'll make an edit here.
00:08.880: When you're looking at um
00:08.880: You have
00:08.880: If you were going to give the same ranking
00:08.960: I just
00:08.960: And obviously, everyone else
00:08.960: And that was probably my first thing that I had.
00:08.960: Bye.
00:09.040: So we're not having to take up with large media files like the whole
00:09.120: So you are saying that you take the full res output.
00:09.120: So I'll always just use whatever tool suits the the job best.
00:09.200: Dude, your show's doing really good or whatever.
00:09.280: I used to listen to music most of the time, but uh now uh I just um
00:09.280: I don't know
00:09.280: Like, really?
00:09.280: It's interesting.
00:09.280: So if you're doing
00:09.280: Obviously, I prefer if you hit five, but you know, it's free country.
00:09.360: Sorry, it's like one thirty in the morning.
00:09.360: I mean the jobs that I've taken in from ten
00:09.360: So now if I've got like rushes with
00:09.440: I mean, I remember I was having a discussion with um
00:09.440: I mean, we've actually in our office, we
00:09.440: I mean, I would prefer
00:09.440: You look at it in your scopes and the the it's all either crushed or blown out or
00:09.440: I mean, the the um
00:09.440: Maybe we can do a career chat on the Cinema Cafe.
00:09.520: So then I managed to sort of teach myself um Final Cut Pro.
00:09.520: I don't know if I mentioned this in a recent episode, but I had a thing where
00:09.600: So it is weird how you relate to either like an icon
00:09.600: What was the exchange rate?
00:09.600: 709.
00:09.600: Something to indicate that, that is the actual media, it's not proxy.
00:09.760: It's just kind of incredible.
00:09.840: And so, yeah, then I started there, and they were a final cut
00:09.840: Eh, bugger it.
00:09.840: So if I was doing a little project, I mean, I when I was back in New Zealand at one point, I made a little
00:09.840: So even for encoding, I'll try
00:09.920: You think that's going to be blue?
00:10.000: So you're not actually.
00:10.000: But the proper round trip stuff works.
00:10.000: It's the end of mine here.
00:10.000: He says you can't work quickly and fastly with a mouse or a stylus.
00:10.080: Yeah, your people in with the Aussies.
00:10.080: Right, right.
00:10.080: And I mean
00:10.160: I mean, that's why th that's the beauty of doing um
00:10.160: I'm sorry, I'm making a fool of myself here.
00:10.240: We'll find it.
00:10.240: It's just
00:10.240: Excuse me, I won't cut that out.
00:10.400: But ranking various, you know, resolve versus
00:10.480: It's an iOS app.
00:10.640: All right, there you go.
00:10.720: You just you like try and find the fault.
00:10.720: No, so um you would um
00:10.720: 13.
00:10.800: And so like the second half of this show, th this interview,
00:10.800: No, I mean, the exchange rate, well, at the time.
00:10.800: What what would you grade uh or um
00:10.880: You know, another story was
00:10.880: It goes up to UHD and that's it.
00:10.960: And like
00:10.960: And I did.
00:11.040: But at the end of the day, real time through
00:11.120: What's your current favorite?
00:11.200: And
00:11.200: So yes.
00:11.200: Yeah.
00:11.280: Yeah.
00:11.280: And so I know at that point.
00:11.360: Just chuck it into Final Cart.
00:11.360: So all of colors, like
00:11.440: I don't think so.
00:11.760: Da Vinci gets a nine.
00:11.840: And it's a dis
00:12.000: Isn't it amazing how many
00:12.080: But um but I've basically just always um
00:12.080: And
00:12.160: So I think they've got.
00:12.240: And yeah.
00:12.240: I'm really kind of
00:12.320: More likely than not.
00:12.320: That was on
00:12.400: I got a dodgy copy of that off um
00:12.480: Uh
00:12.480: So they probably
00:12.480: Um, I um
00:12.560: You could
00:12.800: Been meaning to.
00:13.040: You can just send an FCP XML.
00:13.120: And it's it's
00:13.280: Alex Golner.
00:13.440: Um
00:13.680: And so
00:13.920: I was like, What?
00:14.000: So