Episode 51
FCG051 - Paint the B-Roll, Donesies (feat. Jesse Spencer)
Jesse’s got mad chops and a LONG history in this business. He is known in the Bay Area as a “fixer” when you are stumped trying to get your project out the door, Jesse is the guy you go to. This is a long episode but Jesse is an extremely interesting dude. I thought about cutting it down but couldn’t pick anything to drop. So forgive me for taking so much of your time but I think you’ll enjoy Jesse Spencer.
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00:00.001: I had to get his number from the production manager.
00:00.160: Two-minute break if we can, and I'm going to feed the cat.
00:00.160: Interview with Jesse Spencer from San Francisco.
00:00.160: The commando lifestyle.
00:00.160: that it's evolving that way.
00:00.160: It was it was pretty fun.
00:00.160: I you know, and I've said this many times publicly, I think that one of the things that stretches us the most is our passion projects.
00:00.160: I guess you could say transcendent in as much as that, like, well, it's more than just pictures and sounds in a linear playback fashion, because that's all it is.
00:00.160: It's pictures and sounds being played back in a specific order that you chose.
00:00.160: Flat rates because, to be honest, then it's easier to count and be accountable for the money.
00:00.160: but to help you manage your own resources.
00:00.160: I'm trying to be pushy and rush choices that could that that if they were governing their own time, they would spend more time doing.
00:00.160: that I do for them because I enjoy pleasant company.
00:00.160: It's just no good for business you have if you have like a crying kid in your ice cream store.
00:00.160: Well, you know, I worked with so-and-so and he didn't charge me for any of that.
00:00.160: you know, I could say uh yeah let the let all those people who need to rush in and have an opinion and and and be pioneers
00:00.160: But it's all been personal.
00:00.160: sync audio and video together and no matter where you slug it around, it shifts around.
00:00.160: If I was doing a different kind of job, I probably would have been very much appreciating the functions that I was having difficulty with.
00:00.160: Well, you can do the same thing with a little video audio loop, and you drag a copy of that four count loop off.
00:00.160: Right.
00:00.160: Filter your view of everything that's in the giant bucket.
00:00.160: You know, I mean, think about this.
00:00.160: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:00.160: Yeah, I open up a blank timeline, go to that keyword selection, select all, hit the letter E to drop it into the timeline.
00:00.160: Reduce down, reduce down.
00:00.160: if all of a sudden Jesse got the phone call from Apple saying, okay, yeah, so you're in charge now.
00:00.160: Like Scott Simmons in Nashville or whatever, or so many people that are like, oh, oh, it's a Navid job.
00:00.160: And it seems to me there's been a couple of recommendations that I may have let slip.
00:00.240: and he does a lot of um indie stuff and documentaries and uh you know he has he's one of those guys that has the patience to do the long things that I can't do.
00:00.240: In sync with each other on episode fifty-one for just a couple of days.
00:00.240: I apologize I went so long, but I you know, as I went through it, I was like, I can't cut any of this out.
00:00.240: Putting together parts and making everything all work and getting it all approved, you know, it's not it it's not all glamorous at all
00:00.240: into the business.
00:00.240: find the kind of job where a chair was provided for you.
00:00.240: It's exhausting.
00:00.240: Yeah.
00:00.240: is remembering names.
00:00.240: It's hard.
00:00.240: information from post to production?
00:00.240: You know, and then later, outside of community access video, I did some 16 millimeter assisting.
00:00.240: I got a good sort of slave labor taste of of, you know, just exactly how exhausting and difficult the traditional old film world was.
00:00.240: I'm just not appreciating the hard work that people did with 16mm film, but good God, I can't imagine having to run a one-inch tape machine all day long.
00:00.240: Investing in HD decks before it all started becoming file-based, but they still had a three-quarter-inch deck, and I bet you played just fine.
00:00.240: I mean, it it pales by comparison to trying to, you know, get three tape machines, you know, with a RS four hundred twenty two cable on the back of them to roll in sync with each other.
00:00.240: And not have your preview slip too much.
00:00.240: There's a certain amount of set in stone stuff that you just have to appreciate.
00:00.240: There's usually somebody back then, you know, back in time, some engineer just sweating it out, going like, well, I could do it this way, and it might be a little bit easier, but then we lose out this.
00:00.240: to have occurred at the time that it did with the technology that was available then, then pretty much you wouldn't have had color television for a lot longer.
00:00.240: What was the first time?
00:00.240: you know, export it and deliver it, or you know, whatever.
00:00.240: You know, you didn't think through your pipeline.
00:00.240: Send it through with a bit of string and then see if you can pull a string all the way through it.
00:00.240: You know, you're not going to be faced with the, oh, I really would love it if I could just do an asymmetrical trim here.
00:00.240: It's worth doing just so that you have something to do while you're testing to some extent.
00:00.240: just shooting your dog running down the beach and then cutting it together to whatever.
00:00.240: Full control over something because if you know you said it yourself, I got into this because I wanted to make movies
00:00.240: help somebody else's agenda.
00:00.240: That.
00:00.240: I felt completely uncomfortable about what that message was.
00:00.240: I think it is interesting, and I think that as editors, I think sometimes maybe we're excuse me, sometimes we're a little delusional in terms of like how much we really can influence people.
00:00.240: But let's face it, there are ways to present and pace something that works better than others.
00:00.240: I did a whole piece where it was just like single-frame edits, and I really wanted to know: can I get, can't, you know, can I put those subliminal messages in there?
00:00.240: you know, people in our industry specifically make it a little confusing.
00:00.240: You have to know about story and you have to know about flow, and it's sort there's a lot of big words that are often used to sort of
00:00.240: I think that you can do mystical and magical work, but generally you can't do mystical and magical work if you're given garbage with footage to begin with.
00:00.240: You Frankensteined it.
00:00.240: that they were absolutely going to walk out with.
00:00.240: And then she looked at the clock and she's like, Ugh, I gotta catch Bart.
00:00.240: Get to the end of a sentence, and then you know, quickly get to the next thing because there's no way to reduce it, you know, and they kind of lead, and there's a tonality that you just can't cut around, and you kind of have to leave it in place.
00:00.240: Just to make them feel a little smarter than they are.
00:00.240: You and I started a conversation in the back of the room.
00:00.240: It's new to me in the last year.
00:00.240: People imagine that finishing work is more finite than it is.
00:00.240: And the guy says, Well, forty bucks You go, Cool And then you say, Hey, can can we just I've never driven over the Golden Gate Bridge.
00:00.240: The only thing I can do is enable other people to have the power for the choices.
00:00.240: Put like levers into people's handles so that they can pull the levers they want to, you know?
00:00.240: Right.
00:00.240: Feels sometimes a little bit more like a betrayal to both sides.
00:00.240: And then Apple has time because they're already the industry leader.
00:00.240: Final cut X and the things that I like the most, and it has to do with the fact that Apple is not beholden to actually putting out a functional product.
00:00.240: Or little phonograph records, or all sorts of actual devices that we don't actually use anymore.
00:00.240: And we should be shedding the dead weight.
00:00.240: I can't.
00:00.240: Work to show off, so I usually go through two or three pieces of music, and each piece of music is going to be stitched short, and in some places, my
00:00.240: Be looped, and in some places, I'm holding off on a big crescendo until an explosion or whatever is a shot, so that I end up with a very, hopefully very fast-paced and visually dynamic sizzle reel.
00:00.240: And that's really advantageous when you are cutting music.
00:00.240: what I typically do is I'll drop a cut of music in and then immediately um it's a Command G, I put it in its own storyline.
00:00.240: And just like any drawing program, like if you were in Adobe Illustrator and you wanted to drag off a copy of a square, you hold down the command key and you click on it and you drag it off.
00:00.240: Well, there's a lot of plugins for a lot of NLEs where they're doing voice recognition and doing transcribing.
00:00.240: Oh, and did I just plug?
00:00.240: Stronger beat here, and I can ex it's it's cool.
00:00.240: Easier and what old habits, maybe what old workarounds am I used to doing that this obviates?
00:00.240: Do with I wanted to have certain places sync up and others not, and yet I wanted to be able to
00:00.240: Well, it's a little bit easier to you know it's a little bit easier to take that one on than like, ah, this sucks, everything sucks.
00:00.240: most of the things you gotta do are a mystery, you know.
00:00.240: sort of confused and disoriented oftentimes when I sat down.
00:00.240: I sat there and just looked at you like, you poor one-handed child.
00:00.240: But what you can do is take a clip and drag it on top of the the actual name of the keyword collection, because that's like assigning that keyword collection.
00:00.240: Imagine everything's connected to everything by microscopic black holes that you assign name to.
00:00.240: So, if I wanted to look up some information, I would click on the library.
00:00.240: Sabre, or whatever it was.
00:00.240: All of them that say birds.
00:00.240: Problem for smaller projects because they're a little bit more graspable and your entire keyword search could be there.
00:00.240: There's also a sense, I know that I've done some jobs where it's been there's three tapes and I don't do any subclipping and I don't do any naming, it just ends up all getting slugged in.
00:00.240: I was like, oh, there's somebody's dog in, out.
00:00.240: And boom, it goes into the pets thing.
00:00.240: And stored in or searchable through different that's the other thing.
00:00.240: In the little bit that you've played with it, I think you get it.
00:00.240: and you work your way downstream and it's paint by numbers.
00:00.240: That's not a good editing tool.
00:00.240: You know, I was so energized every time I got to talk to somebody who was using Funnel Cut 10 and understood it, kind of grokked it and understood it and, you know, got it.
00:00.240: Sorry?
00:00.240: Yeah.
00:00.240: Two years ago, I made the decision that, you know, this is the better tool for me.
00:00.240: Do you remember what you said to me last week at Cutters?
00:00.240: Yeah.
00:00.240: The stupidest editors I have ever met.
00:00.240: You know, and I cannot do that.
00:00.240: It's a tool.
00:00.240: it's it's a Phillips.
00:00.240: But if you want to be an interpreter, you have to learn many languages.
00:00.240: a monodimensional fluency.
00:00.240: I'm the happy faces guy.
00:00.240: And you realize that, wow, I just changed the entire feel of this thing.
00:00.240: I just think that it it's in the long run, it's more limiting and it's not that hard to you didn't say they weren't professional.
00:00.240: But what I did know how to do is command minus minus minus minus zoom way out lasso a bunch of stuff pick it up drag it down
00:00.240: I'm like, really?
00:00.240: Make some space.
00:00.240: And I was clicking like a madman, but I sure wasn't efficient.
00:00.240: Non-Final Cut user who's been on this show.
00:00.240: I know, I know.
00:00.240: Whose input would be appreciated?
00:00.240: What did I tell you?
00:00.320: But he's used it a little, he's played with it, he's got great insight, and he also is one of those people, kind of like my friend Steve Miller, we talked to a while back.
00:00.320: Yeah, I wish it was actually interesting, but you know, there's a point in this business that it's just not sometimes.
00:00.320: That's really that's true.
00:00.320: Just, you know, shoot some b-roll, some behind-the-scenes stuff, just in his spare time.
00:00.320: That's the job, dude.
00:00.320: You know, Rhesus monkeys with a camera on their shoulder.
00:00.320: Right.
00:00.320: You know, sort of dominated the market.
00:00.320: He really was.
00:00.320: Do you do the Twitter vaguely?
00:00.320: A little bit the shape of things that are going to jump up in your face and ruin your day.
00:00.320: Uh, there's always going to be something, but things that really blow my mind is that once you memorize enough of the specs.
00:00.320: Well, it's complicated.
00:00.320: You just roll with it, and then you start realizing that some of those weird little numbers start showing up again and again and again.
00:00.320: Huh?
00:00.320: I'm never entirely certain if somebody was just yanking my chain or not.
00:00.320: too great detail because it'd be silly.
00:00.320: So did you get into Avid very early then, in the early nineties?
00:00.320: Do you remember that?
00:00.320: Goofing around on the machine and learning.
00:00.320: Too long, you will find yourself being very empty one day.
00:00.320: Yeah, I've been there.
00:00.320: you know, a sociopath to measure every decision to the point where all you're trying to do is influence somebody else's message.
00:00.320: In the long run, I think that there's a lot of wish fulfillment about what film and video can and can't do.
00:00.320: Well, and oftentimes it really is.
00:00.320: Okay, I want to take this prepositional phrase and put it before this and change this verb, and we're going to like, oh my goodness, we completely changed.
00:00.320: Lather.
00:00.320: And there's a place for all of that.
00:00.320: Yeah, you said sometimes if it feels too manufactured.
00:00.320: kind of, you know, doing one of those Frankenstein edits like we were talking about.
00:00.320: When you leave those in, it actually makes the edit feel a lot smoother.
00:00.320: People who listen to these shows, and I will say not as much on this show, Final Cut Grill, but on our other podcast, Digital Cinema Cafe.
00:00.320: So normally when I have a franken edit, there's usually a few pauses that you gotta leave in place just so that otherwise it sounds
00:00.320: There's actually quite a few edits in that show.
00:00.320: And the other thing is, it's different cutting in an audio editor than it is in a video editor, because you it's more precise.
00:00.320: And I've noticed that in the process of editing dialogue, pure dialogue, like in these podcasts, it's a totally different world.
00:00.320: That could take a little bit of time or a lot of amount of time.
00:00.320: If you don't, then it takes less.
00:00.320: That bothers me.
00:00.320: And I myself started going, oh, well, I think we're not on his track before and we have enough of the budget left, but not enough to have to do both of these
00:00.320: Yeah, not to not have a push-me-pull you kind of thing.
00:00.320: If you ask me for a flat rate, what I'm probably going to do is think about how much five days' worth of money generally costs me.
00:00.320: In the same way that, like, the kids in the ice cream store and the ice cream falls off, and
00:00.320: Than expect that everything comes to them for free.
00:00.320: I should say this.
00:00.320: It certainly means that I have a better chance of working with people that are good.
00:00.320: So that when they say punchy, you know that they want you to cut every shot two frames shorter.
00:00.320: But it's a friendly thing to do and they make the work tolerable and that stuff pays them back or
00:00.320: use Final Cut 10, but I was actually kind of a little surprised the other night because you had said something about you know, I think you had looked at it and you were intrigued by it
00:00.320: When I thought about it, a lot of the stuff was like, Yeah, that always was kind of stupid.
00:00.320: So I take out all the natural sound from the the picture clips.
00:00.320: And then I also wished to have the flexibility that if one segment was running long, I wanted to be able to sync multiple audio edits to the head of certain clips, but also have it liquid.
00:00.320: But if you're dealing with a long cut of music, you might have to.
00:00.320: And I love the fact that basically, you know, when you're cutting, you know, i if you call that delineator between your video and audio, I c I c I think of that like in Vanukut.
00:00.320: seven, that was like the equator.
00:00.320: piece, uh a music clip rather, in Final Cut 10, you're actually being able to edit that thing at the subframe level.
00:00.320: those markers will almost certainly fall between your frame your frame count on a video clip.
00:00.320: I found myself dropping in little two-frame cross dissolves a lot less because I didn't need to.
00:00.320: When you go to drop it at the end of the first loop, it pushes the tail end out.
00:00.320: And you just open up a metadata window and say repeat middle eight twice.
00:00.320: You marker and you drop markers to the beat of the music in.
00:00.320: So I find it really easy to lengthen and shorten music in that fashion.
00:00.320: Oh, sure, sure.
00:00.320: You know, most musicians I know have too much money.
00:00.320: And a lot of times the intro and outro, or the first and last four counts, whatever, on those shorts is much different than the original song.
00:00.320: And so you might get a different sting at the end, or whatever.
00:00.320: And in some ways what I wanted may have been entirely incompatible with any system, but it had to
00:00.320: But that was something that I was curious about.
00:00.320: I don't know exactly how I would use this on a day-to-day basis, but I get it.
00:00.320: And so I want to drag this piece of clip into that bin, and you can't do it.
00:00.320: And I will get something that will match.
00:00.320: and the assistant editor keyword logged everything and misspelled the name.
00:00.320: I can imagine that that's the type of reconciliation thing that people are scared about, that it's a
00:00.320: But that sense that everything is sort of out there and you're reliant on keywords
00:00.320: So if you have, you know, a thousand keywords and you tell and you spell Smith SMITH and SMYTHE or SMYTH
00:00.320: Is that although everything can have a keyword, things do not actually have to have a keyword
00:00.320: And so sometimes clicking on the what is called the event icon, that will show you absolutely everything that is in the project.
00:00.320: And then you can actually search for you can narrow your search by saying, just show me stuff that actually doesn't have a keyword.
00:00.320: Want to, you know, cut with umatic tape decks, you know, this is not the tool for you.
00:00.320: But there is, you know, when you're sitting and doing some type of work, sometimes it is radio edit the A roll, paint it over the B roll in your Dunzies.
00:00.320: it's sort of incorrect to assume that everybody edits the way you do and everybody finds the same things efficient or inefficient that you do.
00:00.320: A lot of them cannot say, I don't like that editing system, it's not right for me.
00:00.320: It's I think that I I just do a little, you know, a little clap there for all the unsung Vegas editors because I'm sure there are plenty of them who are doing great work.
00:00.320: That I was like, you know, I think other people would like these conversations.
00:00.320: it's barely recognizable from the first sit from the first thing that they released in the summer of twenty eleven.
00:00.320: Was it really ushered in an age where I just tote my drive over to your suite and now we're working?
00:00.320: It's not like, oh, you want to change platforms for your mix?
00:00.320: It's $300.
00:00.320: I said that I was so tired of people comparing who are the stupidest editors, the ones that use Final Cut X, Final Cut 7, Premiere or Avid?
00:00.320: And it's not that they were stupid people, but they limited themselves because they were scared or complacent or bought into somebody else's hype.
00:00.320: You said who only ever learned one system.
00:00.320: Edited on one system.
00:00.320: We have turned these discussions into something that feels like a religion.
00:00.320: Let me let you know, you asked me another question when we met.
00:00.320: But you're totally right.
00:00.320: If you have to work with somebody else and speak another language, you know, a second language to communicate between them, then you're closer to, then you may be an advocate.
00:00.320: A lot quicker, if you like.
00:00.320: You know, I think it's interesting that you drew the distinction between being efficient and fast.
00:00.320: And I'd only had it for like two weeks.
00:00.320: And as is the case, I mean, it is kind of an Apple thing.
00:00.320: Be a bit of a fanatic about it, you know?
00:00.320: Also, please use the audio tab on the Digital Cinema Cafe website.
00:00.320: So this this episode is already way too long.
00:00.400: The super duper top secret one?
00:00.400: send, you know, a 5D package to the studio chute?
00:00.400: Well, largely because there isn't a pipeline to take your information to them.
00:00.400: Splicing and taping.
00:00.400: In terms of understanding why things are the way they are.
00:00.400: And then it's somewhat amazing.
00:00.400: I will find an explanation for it and post it on the show notes for this episode.
00:00.400: But that essentially was tied to the development of color television and the way to get three signals into one.
00:00.400: And the other thing is that unless you're actually in a creative situation, if you're just putting up dummy text in order to do something, unless you're investigating creative things and putting your own investment in it.
00:00.400: You know, I know that not everybody does this, but I think it's really healthy to do personal work.
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: Well, I'll tell you that one of the first things that I did when I got my hands on anything, like first the RM450 and the linear tape decks, that one couldn't do single frame edits that well.
00:00.400: Right.
00:00.400: you know, not only styles, but just strategies to get through the edit.
00:00.400: Most of the time I have to do a Frankenstein edit.
00:00.400: Oh, right, right.
00:00.400: Right.
00:00.400: Well, they they actually this particular job, they were actually being very well behaved.
00:00.400: Make them aware of the meter running.
00:00.400: you know, first time filmmakers.
00:00.400: I think that's something that adds to the mix.
00:00.400: I mean, my thought had been that I was going to start receiving Final Cut Pro X work immediately.
00:00.400: I think that Apple comes out with products that don't work but almost work, and then everybody else goes, that's exactly the way things should work.
00:00.400: Where when you drop a a piece of B roll on top of your A roll, let's say, it will on its first frame, it'll go, Hey, I'm gonna kind of parent myself to this thing, this frame.
00:00.400: So it wasn't like, oh, screw this damn final cuddlex.
00:00.400: Um it was difficult to then marry them to the clips because there's the really kind of clever thing about the way you can just
00:00.400: With their tracks, they'll sell the full track, which is like three minutes, and then they have what are called loop loop sets or loop packs.
00:00.400: But anyway, that's our commercial.
00:00.400: Each new piece of music had to coincide with the start of a next the head of a the head of the next film clip for the next section.
00:00.400: Like I said, largely I found a workaround, and I was aware that I may have been asking for something that was sort of having your cake and eat it too.
00:00.400: Very interesting.
00:00.400: Yeah, when I look at my own personal understanding of bins versus keyword collections is what we call them in the the Final Ten.
00:00.400: Quote unquote, put giant air quotes here when I can assign multiple keyword collections to one piece of media
00:00.400: whatever some icon that meant you know the the hangout or you know the coffee shop or something like that or if I wanted to purchase an airplane ticket I would click on the you know through
00:00.400: that was a caricature or a representation of, like what you were just saying, a real world thing
00:00.400: Right.
00:00.400: You know, you're going to see those.
00:00.400: In this thing, where you go, God, you know what?
00:00.400: So you take that, you know, one hour tape that got digitized or that, you know, 60 minute clip that got recorded into a Key Pro.
00:00.400: And so that's like a really powerful thing.
00:00.400: Yeah, make it better.
00:00.400: Right.
00:00.400: that the w that the the waters are getting so uh adversarial about it because one of the things I loved about the original Final Cut Pro 7
00:00.400: The possibility to share stuff really fast and quickly.
00:00.400: Except you've edited on more than one system.
00:00.400: I think that anybody who edits is an editor.
00:00.400: Feeling like you're just doing the tricks that you know.
00:00.400: Fast.
00:00.400: Want to tell me not to do long shows ever again.
00:00.480: You're not going to get a lot of long episodes like this from me because, frankly, it takes a lot longer to prep it and put it together.
00:00.480: And he's also known a little bit as sort of a fixer.
00:00.480: Looking at it from the outside, it gives you a different perspective.
00:00.480: And I found it was fascinating, just that commando lifestyle, but I also found it exhausting, and I started realizing that I might want to
00:00.480: I mean it clearly if you do it long enough, you you cross paths with people again.
00:00.480: And it's sort of comforting if you know, yes, but that's part of the tradition as well, that it's always been difficult.
00:00.480: Well, I'll leave it to your readers to do the Wikipedia essay and figure it out.
00:00.480: Um, well, I was transitioning out of production and I got involved in an independent feature film that was being cut over at the Bay Area Video Coalition back when it was on Seventeenth Street down south of Market over in the Potrero Hill area.
00:00.480: Or agenda.
00:00.480: Pacing by changing things, you are essentially being asked to be a bit of a
00:00.480: You know, start with the talking heads and cut it until it makes sense, and then where it doesn't look good, just put b-roll on top of it, and that's editing.
00:00.480: If you franken edit too much, you get somebody who's talking but not breathing in between, and the audience actually starts feeling a little uncomfortable.
00:00.480: In doing a pure audio edit, which I have, you know, this is new to me.
00:00.480: And I always say that editing is like being a cab driver.
00:00.480: I understand why they'd be upset.
00:00.480: And then I'm going to do my damnedest to get the job done in three and have some profit.
00:00.480: You know, they they I don't charge them to post, I don't charge them if I got to come home early and start a render before I go to bed, I don't charge them if you know there's there's all kinds of things
00:00.480: Um it's a good exercise and it gets you up there.
00:00.480: They'll sell you the music, they'll sell you the loot pack, and then they sell you what is called shorts.
00:00.480: I'm totally in love with them.
00:00.480: And there's a lot of general clumsiness.
00:00.480: That at some point, if I had more time on that, that was going to be I was sitting there going, Two playheads, two playheads are better than one.
00:00.480: or the smart collections, or even the search field up at the top of the browser, or even and I don't even know what they call it, but it's a place where you can select like favorites or rejected or whatever.
00:00.480: Phobics have this type of worry.
00:00.480: if you have one of these multiple terabyte jobs and it's interviews with the same person maybe over two or three years.
00:00.480: The find box and just type BYRDS, you're going to find all of them, whether it is birds or the birds or birds,
00:00.480: Shots.
00:00.480: people tend to poo poo a new product if it does not directly address their favorite way of editing.
00:00.480: You know, and I think that there's a lot of people, and I will admit, there are times when I get this way.
00:00.480: And it's almost like it's like learning a language.
00:00.480: But just doing editing is something that everybody should feel that they can do and nobody should rip them down for I certainly didn't mean that people who only ever use one application aren't editors or aren't professional.
00:00.480: And the director I was working with, he was like, he was watching me cut.
00:00.560: Hello, hello.
00:00.560: It's certainly much less of it is glamorous than I think anybody was led to believe when they got into it.
00:00.560: And I went I started going through the footage and I was so pleasantly surprised by it.
00:00.560: It would be great if it got more regular because I would rather partner with these people.
00:00.560: does does claiming does telling old stories about working with three quarter inch uh date you?
00:00.560: Standards and formats and video best practices that I started learning too.
00:00.560: How many people can really explain, oh, well, if I if it was thirty frames per second, guess what?
00:00.560: Well, doing a Russian accent into microphone.
00:00.560: Understanding and sometimes emotions.
00:00.560: add value to it.
00:00.560: How is he talking so long?
00:00.560: That stumble out, or that, that, that, that, that, you know, that, that, what's the word I'm looking for?
00:00.560: About an edit that had it had gotten a little bit off track
00:00.560: And some of the things that you were saying were like, God, you know, that's like really, really good advice.
00:00.560: And also because, well, this was particularly for finishing work, and I think that sometimes
00:00.560: You know, if you have more hours and you have the budget for it, then you can review more options and get to make more choices before you run out.
00:00.560: uh frustrating and my favorite clients like get discounts all the time
00:00.560: But when something you find in disagreement over the money and your compensation, it does sting doubly because it
00:00.560: So routinely the thing is like, well, I certainly am dedicated to Apple products, or I should say I'm dedicated to any Apple product that's version
00:00.560: For or later, there's a tipping point, right?
00:00.560: And what that means is, if I want to, like you talked about looping and shortening.
00:00.560: the things that there's so many marvelous tools that are in there and the the entire new way that things are you know, uh essentially your media is all now hashtags, you know
00:00.560: Everything is in one giant bucket, and whether you're using the keyword collections
00:00.560: that's where like for me, it like kind of blew my mind.
00:00.560: cars with their headlights on.
00:00.560: And I think that it's difficult because when you want to talk about it or convey it to somebody about why it's good, you have to just start off saying
00:00.560: Apple World or EWorld or something like that.
00:00.560: Okay, so again, that's another sort of database sort of tool where you can go, oh, look at this, my assistant didn't
00:00.560: for BMW driving across country.
00:00.560: It's like, oh, okay.
00:00.560: You know, they just see, oh, different.
00:00.560: And I think and I think, you know, to wrap this up, I think the thing and the reason why I started this podcast is and I talked about it in the first episode where I told people, I said
00:00.560: pretty much eighty five percent to ninety percent of what most people hear about Final Cut 10 or think they know about Final Cut 10
00:00.560: And now I bring it over here, and we're working.
00:00.560: In my own mind, I am much better at my craft when I focus.
00:00.560: you're kind of getting a hit of the joy that I love about editing, and I feel that it should be a very inclusive term.
00:00.560: You say anybody who edits is an editor, but when you find a really experienced person, they're going to take you on a journey from the raw footage to the finished product.
00:00.640: Tonight, today, this afternoon is a great episode.
00:00.640: I think you're going to enjoy Jesse.
00:00.640: You know, I had an experience, and I've only done this a few times.
00:00.640: Nobody's excited about a call from Post coming forward into production.
00:00.640: Sometimes when you see the same mistakes coming up again and again and again, it can be very frustrating because
00:00.640: So when about when did you get started?
00:00.640: But I had already put the Abbott through most of the paces that I cared about, and I always would just, you know, make some sort of little project or something just to
00:00.640: To make sure I was on top of what I needed to do.
00:00.640: We walk into suites and we are asked to use our skills and abilities and experience and knowledge to further somebody else's idea and/or project.
00:00.640: I get to work with, and therefore, support their messages just by taking the jobs that I take.
00:00.640: Okay.
00:00.640: Or you want to cut to the chase.
00:00.640: I already gave you a price.
00:00.640: It is this slightly cold maneuver.
00:00.640: I believe that also the situation had been that I had said, well, here's the time it generically takes, and here's the time I think we're going to take, but it could take a lot longer or a lot less.
00:00.640: I work with a lot of producers who do it for the first time.
00:00.640: Or let's say, okay, I'm going to cut a verse out.
00:00.640: I'm not making music.
00:00.640: It took me a while.
00:00.640: Folders and folders and folders, bins and bins and bins.
00:00.640: involved like a cartoonish world.
00:00.640: every example of that in one place in a finite way so you can review it and
00:00.640: absolutely ascertain that you've chosen the best one.
00:00.640: So you can set a range and then just find the subclips that have.
00:00.640: I just really hate it when people transfer their fear or distrust of an application onto the users.
00:00.640: It's pretty wrong.
00:00.640: Yeah, and now I'm going to pick apart what you said there just a little bit, just so I feel a little bit better about myself.
00:00.640: But I know that, and I've said this, I'm better when I concentrate and I am better at my craft when I narrow my focus.
00:00.640: You know, but um but anyway, uh thanks so much for doing now if people are interested in finding out about Jesse Spencer
00:00.720: It's usually, you know, it's come and gone so fast that you just live in a world that you know could be better, but
00:00.720: They're like Volkswagens or even like $44 from the government jeeps.
00:00.720: That's really funny.
00:00.720: You know what, maybe something that when you flat rate something, it seems to me I don't it seems kind of weirdly dishonest to me because
00:00.720: And but I needed to know what was different about it.
00:00.720: What are we?
00:00.720: So here's my ignorance being laid bare.
00:00.720: So we were talking about music.
00:00.720: But then I also had it stapled down at the beginning, and that meant that the middle chunks where I was looping stuff around sometimes would get displaced at the head, sometimes at the tail.
00:00.720: It's where I want it to be, even though I'm moving this to touch with this, but the playhead is still where I want it.
00:00.720: Actually, that's a really good description.
00:00.720: And then the other thing is, in my itunes, I know that I have birds, the and the birds.
00:00.720: Appropriately keyword, a whole day's worth of shooting.
00:00.720: stretching yourself a little bit, maybe you should still be cutting in Final Cut 7.
00:00.720: This has been great.
00:00.800: I know Jesse from S SF Cutters, and I also know that he is not a regular Final Cut 10 user.
00:00.800: I've been all right.
00:00.800: Variability of experience, but you still get the job done and you can still just pull it off in record time.
00:00.800: 2997, that's so sloppy.
00:00.800: Well, what?
00:00.800: But it is hard because numbers are hard.
00:00.800: And in the long-term.
00:00.800: It is.
00:00.800: I mean, we all like to make jokes about Vegas, but there are people doing great work every day, 9 to 5, with Vegas.
00:00.800: I said you're talking about Sony Vegas, not the Vidi the City of Vegas.
00:00.800: I just I've never had to use it.
00:00.800: You know, and so they're like, yeah, you know what?
00:00.800: I do not.
00:00.880: In college, going to the video access center and community access cable kind of stuff.
00:00.880: And make it happen because then there isn't a missed step in the pipeline that you know.
00:00.880: But I do think that when you combine concrete information along with
00:00.880: Right, right.
00:00.880: But you have you're committed.
00:00.880: I think it is a little bit, you know, I haven't dug in close enough.
00:00.880: So so let me address that for just a little bit here, just in defense of the product.
00:00.880: But largely because they're not taking full advantage of their tools anyway.
00:00.880: if you do pick it up, it's certainly going to influence and deepen your appreciation of the other tools you use as well.
00:00.880: And he goes, Oh, yeah.
00:00.960: But it's not going to be better today, and we still have to finish this.
00:00.960: Just amazingly difficult.
00:00.960: It sure is a lot nicer when you have better pictures to work with.
00:00.960: And it's been fun to leave some of those little stutters and bobbles in because it disguises the edit.
00:00.960: Sure.
00:00.960: And I think that and I think that that's the fear, you know, and and getting back to the cab thing, you know, if you're if you're getting a cab at SFO and say, I need I want to go to the I want to go to North Beach, how much?
00:00.960: That looks forward thinking, forward thinking to jobs that have more footage than you would ever have before because projects get bigger and bigger all the time.
00:00.960: And yet today we're all pretty comfortable with the little Google box.
00:00.960: And I think that there are some people who never learned to not edit that way.
00:00.960: If you're doing a narrative feature, I mean, you literally sort everything almost alphabetically.
00:00.960: And that's okay, because if a tool is better for what you do, that's great.
00:00.960: it's a huge uphill battle, but luckily they're in a position where it's not a life or death thing for them.
00:01.040: So I hope that gave me a lot of perspective.
00:01.040: There are certain things that drag.
00:01.040: Actually, you know, come to think of it, I don't know that I don't I've never heard that.
00:01.040: Getting any kind of assistant job for me was like I didn't care as long as it didn't cost me money to do it because I would then just spend the rest of the time
00:01.040: I mean, it could be as simple as listening to the marketing hype or messing around with something, but never actually trying to
00:01.040: You know, nobody sits down and says, you know what I really want to do for a living?
00:01.040: My perspective, oh, it's self-preservation to want to do hourly because ultimately I only have my time to sell.
00:01.040: Cat's paw to exert their will that you can, and that's and that's a nicely intimate rapport, and I enjoy it.
00:01.040: Okay.
00:01.040: I may simply have enjoyed the fact that things were shaken up a bit and forced me to reevaluate how I put things together.
00:01.040: Be defensive about it because when you know, one of the least admirable traits I've found about a lot of editors is that
00:01.040: Because that's sort of the tone that I see on all the forums.
00:01.040: Where I'm like, ah, use the hammer.
00:01.040: How do they find you online?
00:01.040: Not a problem at all.
00:01.120: Yeah, no, definitely.
00:01.120: And we just pounded on this interview, these interviews.
00:01.120: I'm not going to say who it is, but she you know, she was really interesting.
00:01.120: That's like, you know, if there's a client and I really want their money and I'm scared they think I'm too smart, I might mispronounce a few words just to seal the deal.
00:01.120: Come up with the accolades for all the things that are cool without actually having to functionally fix everything out to begin with.
00:01.120: Yeah, that's a good point.
00:01.120: It's a billable difference.
00:01.120: I'm just clicking on a lot of stuff really quick because there was like some fundamental stuff I didn't know how to do.
00:01.120: And use that little audio tab, send me questions.
00:01.200: So you ended up having to have a powwow with these two guys.
00:01.200: And I'm glad that somebody was pioneering in finding new ways to get stuff done.
00:01.200: In most cases when I was exploring the tool, it's that ex that that feeling of, oh, what does this do?
00:01.200: as opposed to bins that have to mesh up with some other person's sense of organization.
00:01.200: There is a certain it's hard to pin a real world metaphor.
00:01.280: I have to have faith that that stuff pays them back and the world gets a little bit better because of it.
00:01.280: I cut my latest demo reel on Final Cut X.
00:01.280: I didn't find that my sense was that there was a more elegant way to achieve what I had done and I hadn't discovered it
00:01.280: And so you have, you know, if you start with number one and end with number 12, and then you have two through 11, and you can like stretch and extend and move them around.
00:01.280: Do you remember like the in the earliest days of the Internet?
00:01.280: And I had snipped out little tiny clips of people and their dogs out of larger shots.
00:01.280: The benefits of which there are many of working with Final Cut Pro X are continuously having to defend it and just really
00:01.280: I had a I had a thing in in early 1998.
00:01.360: It it's it I mean, let's face it, how many people do you know that can truly explain why we use numbers like 2997?
00:01.360: Yeah.
00:01.360: And so you don't have to say anybody, and you can be as vague as you want.
00:01.360: In the long run, I tried to present it in a way that was like, this is what you want.
00:01.360: What do you th what do you think of Final Hit 10?
00:01.360: I I don't think so.
00:01.360: Even though it's in a video project.
00:01.360: That you have to know what the keywords are in order to find them and fix them.
00:01.360: It really does exist as a punchline, but I have no idea whether it deserves to be a punchline or not.
00:01.440: And you I found that like the people that you met, you you saw them for a little bit and then you never saw them again.
00:01.440: Is that directed at me?
00:01.440: Well, that would be the sociopathic manipulator that you are.
00:01.440: Yes, so and that's and I think what you're saying is you see those and you're like, oh, this is really cool.
00:01.440: And when you get that, you're like, ooh, okay, this is a whole new way of thinking about media and data and an organization.
00:01.520: I like that, yeah.
00:01.520: it's not a very good video signal.
00:01.520: It was a it was a documentary about Russia, and so they often needed me to read in uh recreation voices.
00:01.520: Every now and then I say, like, man, I stood in the wrong line back on Career Day.
00:01.520: Totally.
00:01.520: Refresh my memory.
00:01.520: I mean, you really count on having a good, nearly psychic rapport.
00:01.520: So I found that when making audio edits internally
00:01.520: Smiles.
00:01.520: But if there's one shot of a dog hanging his head out the window, I went, oh, there's a pet shot.
00:01.520: So, yeah.
00:01.520: There are good tools and there are bad tools, and there are, you know, a hammer is an awesome tool.
00:01.520: I told you you would like Jesse.
00:01.600: I I think it, you know, it could be really good.
00:01.600: Well, yeah, but I would say that the way I've approached all the technology that I have is that while I was assisting, to me
00:01.600: Yeah.
00:01.600: Less abstract and more visual things like just sensations of music and sound and the emotions that come from certain colors.
00:01.600: Running upright moviolas?
00:01.600: And also oftentimes I would need the new piece of music to be tied to the outro of another piece of music so that the rhythm going out matched the rhythm going in.
00:01.600: He's used this thing for a couple of years now.
00:01.600: Command plus plus plus plus plus.
00:01.600: But I think if you listen to some episodes, you'll realize that the vast majority of people are hardcore advocates, love it.
00:01.680: It is a commando lifestyle.
00:01.680: What was it like the first time you walked into a suite, you sat down, and you were the guy?
00:01.680: Watch me do another one.
00:01.760: I've been all right.
00:01.760: But at the same time, I'm really lucky.
00:01.760: But at the same time, I mean, I remember I was talking to somebody, they were a junior editor, and they were doing a simple like corporate piece and they were confused where to start.
00:01.760: But but what I admired was the fact that they kissed goodbye so much stuff and
00:01.760: I think it's many interfaces are based around metaphors that you can point to with physical objects.
00:01.760: We've talked a little bit about this, but privately.
00:01.840: Exactly.
00:01.840: You totally plug because one of the things that they have, and I say this all the time, but it's totally true.
00:01.920: You know, I think she even said the word lather.
00:01.920: It was actually, it was things were fine.
00:01.920: So that's one way that kind of saves your bacon.
00:01.920: I'm going to get so much crap for saying that.
00:01.920: No, I think you make a really good point.
00:02.000: But basically, it was like if the message is right, if that spine is proper.
00:02.000: I prefer an hourly rate as well.
00:02.000: You know, there are still icons on most interfaces that look like little cassettes somewhere.
00:02.000: I'm dating myself 20 years ago.
00:02.000: So, I have a history of dealing with old Final Cut, Avid, Premiere.
00:02.000: Oh, yeah, there are there are more efficient editors.
00:02.080: Well, um, let's talk about that.
00:02.080: I said, I just want to talk to the guy.
00:02.080: You know, it y fix it.
00:02.080: But if you want thirty dot zero podcast well, if you want thirty dot zero frames per second
00:02.080: We completely changed what this guy was saying.
00:02.080: Yeah, I think one of the things that I try and fight for on occasion, and you get it all the time.
00:02.080: Actually, these guys get paid.
00:02.080: It's a it's a Phillips head screw.
00:02.080: Do you have like a web page, portal, something, maybe a Apple eWorld account name?
00:02.160: Yeah, and I don't think I don't think people I don't know if you saw this.
00:02.160: That sounds great.
00:02.160: By all means, contact me, let me know.
00:02.240: Jesse is a veteran.
00:02.240: And oftentimes that meant digitizing beta SP tapes in late at night.
00:02.240: Or agenda.
00:02.240: But it was kind of interesting to me because other producers I know, they want to argue to the carpet every shot in sequence, you know?
00:02.240: But there is an infinite amount to it, and something has to govern how when it's done, you know?
00:02.240: I don't think a lot of people really think through that aspect of it.
00:02.240: So as I was going through footage for two weeks in a tour bus driving through the heartland.
00:02.320: Now, you're going to hear more about Premium Beat later on in the piece, so I'm not going to go on too long there.
00:02.320: Yeah, I guess it's got an NDA.
00:02.320: Oh, yeah.
00:02.320: Exactly.
00:02.320: Yeah.
00:02.320: And when we're cutting heads, we're thinking about jump cuts, I'm going to have to cover that, going to have to cover that.
00:02.320: So I really try to account for that and try to make up for some of the indifference and and horribleness of the world.
00:02.320: And there is a certain amount of like, well, they get to be then the design leader, and it's kind of nice that they get to
00:02.320: I'll let them take the bruises.
00:02.320: So anything above the equator is all my video tracks.
00:02.320: At first, I was like, ah, I just hate this.
00:02.320: It's for unprofessional editors.
00:02.400: Well, it's kind of exciting to go to all these exciting places and set up and just have that sort of
00:02.400: And you have to realize when you start a session with somebody that's going to be multiple days, and you know, I know that you do films and stuff.
00:02.400: So that was one of the things that now, actually, I can't remember.
00:02.400: So like a week and a half later, producer walks into the tour bus one morning and she goes, Hey, let's do that pet video today.
00:02.400: It's it really allows you to do the job that you do and know that you know how to do it as opposed to
00:02.400: And he he made a a reference to another guy in San Francisco, who will remain nameless, who owned a Media 100, big Media 100 advocate back in those days.
00:02.480: And then it was all about non-linear editing.
00:02.480: So, at that point, what I heard was a difference of opinions.
00:02.480: I've never thought of the playhead and the skimmer as being like two hands, but that's a really good analogy.
00:02.480: Oh, jumping back and forth can be exhausting.
00:02.560: I always enjoyed the idea of making movies, you know, from being a teenager.
00:02.560: I mean, I've heard of it.
00:02.560: Um and that doesn't necessarily mean you're selling your soul, but you know, editing is ultimately making a lot of choices to influence and manipulate people's
00:02.560: I know the shooter took pretty pictures and just have it make sense.
00:02.560: And the thing is that I honestly don't know if I did a very good job there.
00:02.560: I'll actually do a little Apple bashing right now.
00:02.560: Because one is in the B's and one is in the T's.
00:02.560: There's a a zillion different philosophies about how to build stuff.
00:02.560: It's like learning another language, except it's cheap and it's right there.
00:02.560: It's it's there's almost no excuse not to have it just to check it out for yourself
00:02.640: I was near a flatbed, but I never really used it that much.
00:02.640: And there really isn't a wrong way and a right way.
00:02.640: I cannot do that.
00:02.640: Well, yes, yes, and that's what I'm getting at: is that you said only have only ever
00:02.720: Yes, there usually isn't a post mortem opportunity for people to say, well, what could we do better next time?
00:02.720: It's usually not because that they are not on message.
00:02.720: You're going to be with that person for a lot of time.
00:02.720: You know?
00:02.720: I think that I was pretty charged up.
00:02.720: And I think that some of the outside people look at that and they go, Oh, just more Apple people.
00:02.720: All right, Jesse, thanks for your time.
00:02.800: You know, I know that some people, like, for example, some people say things like
00:02.800: Right.
00:02.800: It's not, it's there's many steps and many disciplines, but I don't see any reason to make it seem mystical or magical.
00:02.800: And it feels it we try to make it feel like a very natural conversation, but I will fess up.
00:02.800: And the producers early in the event said, oh, and by the way, like in the last few days, we're going to do a little meltdown of all the people who brought their pets along.
00:02.800: There is something I I don't know what Final Cut Pro X's fate is going to be.
00:02.800: Yeah, yeah.
00:02.880: I think a little bit that there's a lot of people bang their head with how difficult video tech can be.
00:02.880: Okay, this is a good place to make a transition because last week, last Thursday night at Cutters.
00:02.880: Classic problem: you know, you take on a job, you bid an amount or a certain amount of time, or they tell you what they have, and you decide whether or not you want to take it.
00:02.880: We were saying, like, hey, argue with the numbers.
00:02.880: There's probably like a single keystroke that'll solve most of it.
00:02.880: The other thing that I you know, it's not so much that I was curious.
00:02.880: So that's it for this episode of The Grill.
00:02.960: And we and like I said, she spent about 80 to 90 percent of her time on that.
00:02.960: Refreshing your memory.
00:02.960: I mean, I th the thing is that I didn't have to approach it with the same guarded fear that a lot of people did because
00:02.960: Everybody else is labeled a copycat.
00:02.960: They get to break the mold.
00:02.960: Yeah, it's really cool.
00:02.960: Because again, every one of those clips could have been stored in like my Wednesday morning stuff or my driving through the cornfield stuff or however I want to sort it.
00:02.960: I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did.
00:03.040: Yeah.
00:03.040: Right.
00:03.040: Um the other thing that like I didn't get way on top of but I was really impressed by was I knew that the skimmer versus the playhead
00:03.040: So you'll look at it and you go, oh, that's kind of a problem, isn't it?
00:03.040: And hands down, I'll say, you know, not just, well, some of them were stupid.
00:03.120: I wouldn't trust anything to it.
00:03.120: When are we going to get rid of those decimal points?
00:03.120: I like what you're saying, but I would like to touch a little bit more on this Manchurian candidate thing, because I think
00:03.120: And now I can like cross reference them.
00:03.120: Like you said, it's like having the skimmer and the playhead.
00:03.120: I've really enjoyed it.
00:03.120: It was none of this.
00:03.120: And he goes, oh, yeah, you're way faster.
00:03.200: Yeah, it's kind of like you've got this pipe and you build it, and then you got to take a bent coat hanger and
00:03.200: And uh there's so much that's fantastic about
00:03.200: I'm totally in love with premium beats.
00:03.280: It's long.
00:03.280: Yeah.
00:03.280: I don't get it.
00:03.280: And one of the things that I recognized right away is that cutting music was a lot easier in Funnel Cut 10.
00:03.280: You know, I start to type P for pets and it goes, Oh, you want to keyword that with pets?
00:03.280: You find people that just like, you know, they go uh they I don't even know how you want to say this, but you know, sometimes you get it and it's hard to not
00:03.360: Welcome to another episode of Final Cut Grill.
00:03.360: Busy, busy, busy.
00:03.360: So I I got into post and I think I had the aptitude for it, so it stuck.
00:03.360: Okay.
00:03.360: And that's kind of what I still do: if I've got a new piece of software, I try to learn it, but then I try to just take something from alpha through to omega.
00:03.360: You're changing the scope of the job at that point.
00:03.360: Oh, these people are stupid.
00:03.360: I don't limit people.
00:03.440: But since I was really kind of getting active in 1990, it really was only going to be so long before the avid
00:03.440: Seriously?
00:03.440: We use a lot of terms to protect our own jobs that talk about, well, you know
00:03.440: It was a pretty mean-spirited conversation, but yeah.
00:03.440: I go, Yeah, okay, so why aren't you with him today?
00:03.440: Here's my mark, here's my mark, select it and delete it.
00:03.440: These musicians get paid.
00:03.440: I'm not going to do much more here.
00:03.520: I have so much respect for people in production that I made it a part of my job that I daily curse them.
00:03.520: He goes, What?
00:03.520: Yeah.
00:03.520: And to some extent, I have to eat a few half hours here and half and sometimes half days.
00:03.520: Yeah, I mean, I always say people companies don't hire companies, people hire people.
00:03.520: So the thing was that I wanted certain things to be absolutely locked, but I also wanted things absolutely to be liquid.
00:03.520: Nope, not for me.
00:03.520: It's awesome.
00:03.520: And I did a job on a cruise ship, and I packed it all up with my raid and tons of boxes of gear.
00:03.600: And you will also find that Jesse is a real student of what it means to be an editor.
00:03.600: And there's I don't believe that editors can Manchuri incandidate people by putting flash frames and in stuff like
00:03.600: The trouble is that it could be one of three clients right now that I was complaining about, and I honestly don't remember which one it was.
00:03.600: So, what I did was I sent them an invoice and said, Okay, well, here we are.
00:03.600: So if I can cut them out of the loop, I'm really going to go for that.
00:03.600: But every time I went back to Final Cut 7 or Avid.
00:03.600: I did a I've told this story many times, but I'll tell you because I don't think you've heard it.
00:03.600: We're just going to keep plodding along.
00:03.600: Yeah, no, I think I totally agree, and there is a joy that you see when you cut those two images together.
00:03.680: I think that when we look at the quote unquote, and I'm doing big air quotes here, problems that we run into today
00:03.680: So of course, there was definitely something when you have your first session that you have to accommodate another person and sort of be on stage a little bit more.
00:03.680: Oh, cool.
00:03.680: One, two, three, four, one, two.
00:03.680: You can imagine a series of nesting cardboard boxes, and some cardboard boxes contain items, and some cardboard boxes
00:03.680: Yeah, I'm the meltdown king.
00:03.680: Paste in the shot.
00:03.760: And it's sort of like asking this isn't exactly, but you know, well, why aren't there a hundred seconds in a minute?
00:03.760: And it's an expensive business.
00:03.760: Well, I poked at it when it first came out.
00:03.760: It doesn't do what I want to do.
00:03.760: I feel ill-prepared for this.
00:03.840: Oh, okay.
00:03.840: You know, one of my favorite producers that I've ever had the privilege of working with.
00:03.840: They understand that sometimes you have to throw more money, but the finishing, they sometimes get surprised that there are as many forks in the road.
00:03.840: And I think that's something that, you know, it's really easy in this business.
00:03.840: So in Final Cut 10 per parlance, you're talking about the connected clip.
00:03.840: Well, I think that if I can make my own music, one of the things I'm helping do is
00:03.840: You want to change platforms for your color?
00:03.840: Anyway, hey, Jesse, thank you so much for doing this.
00:03.920: Because it seems like quite often it's like, you know, in, out, done, and you know, maybe we'll cross paths again.
00:03.920: But I go back to Wikipedia and it's normally close enough.
00:03.920: And I think that there is a little bit of selling of your soul when it comes to doing that.
00:03.920: Um lather that thing up with some B-roll and post it for me to check out later.
00:03.920: And do you ever find that you purposely leave in little baubles so they do sound more human?
00:03.920: That's okay.
00:03.920: I'm a Mac based guy.
00:03.920: We were talking you were talking about one knowing one system versus two or something.
00:03.920: So questions or comments or whatever, if you just want to just sick of me and
00:04.000: That's your job.
00:04.000: That usually means that somebody's angry.
00:04.000: I know.
00:04.000: And what that means is if you drop markers down on that thing, just listening to the beat or whatever.
00:04.000: I can't remember what it was.
00:04.000: And it's kind of it's it's uh I think Apple has a huge
00:04.080: I'm not going to ramble on too much.
00:04.080: W is there a problem?
00:04.080: Yeah.
00:04.080: What equipment did you first start editing with?
00:04.080: So you were doing that.
00:04.080: I'll say that.
00:04.080: People tend to realize that the creative offline edit is
00:04.080: And these are the same people who routinely buy lunch.
00:04.080: Right.
00:04.080: So that's the end of the commercial.
00:04.080: And it's been energizing to talk to so many other people that agree.
00:04.080: It's inside our domain and it's not coming out again.
00:04.160: But it's so often where you can find yourself, you know, stubbing your toe on something because you weren't diligent.
00:04.160: But when you're in the edit chair, you often have somebody cracking the whip over your head, and they want to see
00:04.160: And it's been, for me, you know, this is six months now of doing this.
00:04.160: No, no, no.
00:04.160: The hammers are great.
00:04.240: I think it was a director and a producer who were not seeing eye to eye and their changes were going to run out the budget.
00:04.240: And frankly, I think a lot of people can't get to even where you are.
00:04.240: I was talking about the City of Vegas.
00:04.240: There are editors that are faster.
00:04.320: But anyway, tonight, tonight, it's what time is it?
00:04.320: And I don't want to come across like post snobs and say that all camera crews are, you know
00:04.320: But just the fact that they stuck around and don't expire every three years like a laptop or every six months like software is
00:04.320: I didn't get in until about 1996, and that was as an assistant.
00:04.320: Yeah.
00:04.320: Or they have see, I'm very conscious of it now because I know what's wrong, but having to do it while you're actually speaking.
00:04.320: I'm out.
00:04.320: You don't store it, but you choose how you're going to search for it.
00:04.320: Again, I say I don't use it regularly and I appreciate it, but yeah, I have used it.
00:04.400: You know, when people are stumped and they're in that final stage of their production, a lot of times they end up calling Jesse in to help them out.
00:04.400: I have no idea what level they would give a crap about me talking about it.
00:04.400: Just trust me.
00:04.400: If you are in charge of money as well as working with the person, if you're a freelancer or if you have a small shop.
00:04.400: Let's talk a little bit about hardware.
00:04.400: And then they get it to actually work.
00:04.400: So it is, it's musical Legos, and
00:04.400: What's going on?
00:04.400: And uh, what was Apple?
00:04.480: I had an experience just last week where a client like at the very last minute, they said, Oh, can we
00:04.480: Some days you just sigh and shrug and you know.
00:04.480: You know what?
00:04.480: I'm going to do something that I'm, you know, PremiumBeat.
00:04.480: And it's not that they all of them are valid ways to edit, and in a lot of ways, different jobs require different techniques.
00:04.480: If you use it, you are not as good an editor as I am.
00:04.480: I just wanted to touch on it because I thought it actually meshed with the points we were making there.
00:04.480: And I will also say: best way to contact me is through Twitter
00:04.560: That's awesome.
00:04.560: But in this case, I wanted to really make a perfect music edit.
00:04.560: You can't put it into the field or the search result.
00:04.560: But you'd click on an image
00:04.560: I've met some great people.
00:04.640: I'm curious.
00:04.640: But I think that's something that most people don't realize, but a really good skill to have if you're in production.
00:04.640: So if you find like a four count that you want to loop,
00:04.640: Maybe you can tell me what happens
00:04.640: These people are unprofessional.
00:04.640: So if you recommended somebody and you haven't heard from them, send me another tweet, please.
00:04.720: He's an old-timey guy.
00:04.720: If they can't see the meter running like you can in a cab, and then suddenly the amount is more than they were expecting.
00:04.720: Right.
00:04.720: So I would totally fall into your stupid category.
00:04.720: Oh, totally.
00:04.720: Command minus minus minus minus.
00:04.800: Shouldn't we just be shooting 30.
00:04.800: And if you can do that, then you know that you've kind of got something.
00:04.800: Then again, I've also been very lucky that in recent years I've been able to more or less choose the type of people that
00:04.800: But can you relay some of that story that you told me last week?
00:04.800: Right, right, right.
00:04.800: I think that's a great way to dip your toe in, Frankly.
00:04.800: In some ways, I keep going, oh, they didn't change Final Cut X enough.
00:04.800: Okay.
00:04.800: It was like, oh, I can say these are all the shots of black cars, these are all the shots I did on Tuesday night, and these are all the shots of
00:04.880: Fix it.
00:04.880: So Claudia Claudia posted something, Claudia Krask from SF Cutters posted something just the other day, and she said something like
00:04.880: Oh, that's awesome.
00:04.880: There's been a lot of work I've done over the years where it's you're just selling your skills to
00:04.880: It's more like, well, it operates in a different way.
00:04.880: You know what?
00:04.880: And the benefit of learning many systems is that it's not just
00:04.960: You know, I went to a facility today and they didn't have any H D decks because it wasn't worth
00:04.960: It's 2997.
00:04.960: I mean, the way that I heard it told, and I won't go in
00:04.960: And if I wanted to, you know, chat with people, I would click on the
00:04.960: Tag.
00:05.040: You start getting you start going, like, oh, I remember, this is just like this other thing.
00:05.040: Right, right.
00:05.040: Go for it.
00:05.040: And it's a difficult conversation starter.
00:05.040: And it's not that that's beyond Final Cut Pro X's abilities by any means.
00:05.040: Thanks so much.
00:05.120: It's um of course, expectations have risen to match.
00:05.120: And then the other thing to keep in mind, and I think that I've been cutting in Funnel Cut 10 for two years now, and I still have to remind myself of this.
00:05.120: Right, exactly.
00:05.120: Can I just use the screwdriver?
00:05.120: We will see you again.
00:05.200: Can you hear me?
00:05.200: Clearly, some of them are.
00:05.200: You know?
00:05.200: And we shaped it into the message that they needed.
00:05.200: Editing purely audio is something that I've
00:05.200: This is better.
00:05.280: You know, and like, and like those things never work out well, right?
00:05.280: I go, No, it's the exact opp exact opposite.
00:05.280: Absolutely.
00:05.280: I want to sit in a dark room and I want to have people that know less than me sit behind me and tell me what to do all day long.
00:05.280: Yeah.
00:05.280: Yeah.
00:05.280: Where's that plugin?
00:05.280: But in the earliest days of the Internet, everybody's user interfaces
00:05.280: You know?
00:05.280: But my sense is that there's a million ways to edit, as many ways to edit as there are editors.
00:05.280: I think I wouldn't even worry about it.
00:05.280: For sure.
00:05.360: Yeah, actually, it's been today was sort of the hurry up and wait day.
00:05.360: I try to not take choices away as much as try to
00:05.360: Yeah, that's a good point.
00:05.360: They're not giving away music at premium beat, although it is very competitively priced.
00:05.360: And you know, and when you look at the upgrade history, you go, wow, holy crap.
00:05.360: I think that some people are maybe more technically fearful or whatever else.
00:05.360: Oh, that's fine.
00:05.440: I mean, obviously, you know, we know each other from SF Cutters, but I don't know much about your history.
00:05.440: Because in a lot of most of the time, you say, why the hell is this working this way?
00:05.440: When you're collaborating, you have good ingredients.
00:05.440: How did you solve the problem?
00:05.440: We came to an accord very quickly.
00:05.440: That's the other thing is that there is a certain amount of
00:05.440: Make a brand new editor.
00:05.440: And I here's the best thing about Final Cut Pro X.
00:05.440: And sometimes people have to look at me and go, you know, it
00:05.440: I bought a an Avid, whatever was cool then, and I hated it and I sold it.
00:05.440: And then I told him, I go, but just so you know, I'm not really.
00:05.520: But it's interesting how different producers have different
00:05.520: It's fine.
00:05.520: Maybe.
00:05.520: And what I do is I generically just have a bed of music, and I like to think that I have a variety of
00:05.520: Anything below the equator is all my audio tracks.
00:05.520: You know, there was like a caricature of like a town square.
00:05.520: And don't be confused, Digital Cinema Cafe is the hosting site for both shows.
00:05.600: This is 051.
00:05.600: You know, that's that's the point.
00:05.600: And I actually called the guy.
00:05.600: Yeah, yeah.
00:05.600: So they have like a 15, a 30, and a 60.
00:05.600: Because you'd make a keyword collection, and in your mind, you're thinking, well, it's kind of like a bin.
00:05.600: Yeah, so I can start shuttling through it and go, oh, this is good.
00:05.600: No, I I'm talking about Sony Veg
00:05.680: Was that one of the things that you found to be annoying or that you liked?
00:05.680: Apple had like an online community thing called like
00:05.680: You know?
00:05.680: Use that tool.
00:05.680: So if I had a PC, I probably would get it just to see what it's about and figure it out.
00:05.760: So how did you get into and you did some assisting.
00:05.760: And I think it's really important.
00:05.760: Right.
00:05.760: Give me five minutes seven.
00:05.760: For sure.
00:05.760: Watch me do a meltdown.
00:05.840: I don't even know.
00:05.840: It's an expensive business.
00:05.840: It's fine.
00:05.840: And then the other thing that I do with their stuff on occasion, so they have
00:05.840: And when you kind of wrap your head around the fact that I can put things
00:05.840: But again, if you use the find command
00:05.840: And it's silly that
00:05.920: But I'm a huge fan and they support the show.
00:05.920: And so the concept of stopping and being a competent assistant editor and getting things tagged appropriately, they see that as a deficit
00:05.920: Yeah, yeah.
00:05.920: Just a great guy, and a lot of laughs in that interview, and wonderful insight on the industry as a whole.
00:06.000: I think that in my career I've probably done it three, four or five times, something like that, you know?
00:06.000: They just don't die.
00:06.000: But that's the way I heard it.
00:06.000: I if had I known that the person was calling the shots was not the editor, I might have thought twice.
00:06.000: And that storyline will act like its own little quote unquote magnetic timeline.
00:06.000: And I wasn't entirely.
00:06.000: So that if there's mistagging
00:06.000: Well, my suspicion is that it's not that big of a
00:06.000: I suspect it doesn't.
00:06.000: Okay, good.
00:06.000: If you only ever speak to yourself, it's fairly easy, and you can get pretty good at doing stuff.
00:06.080: It's with a friend of mine named Jesse Spencer.
00:06.080: He's cut a lot of stuff for many, many years.
00:06.080: I can, yeah, that sounds awesome.
00:06.080: Exactly.
00:06.080: I better really figure out how to do that.
00:06.080: She spent about ninety percent of her time on what some people refer to as the radio edit, you know, the the content.
00:06.080: Um well
00:06.080: I will drive you anywhere you want in the city as long as the flag is up.
00:06.080: Oftentimes the thing, though, is that if you're paying hourly, you certainly got a
00:06.080: I look around other NLE interfaces, and some of the things that I find charming are like
00:06.080: Can you come up with a better metaphor than a timeline?
00:06.080: So when you did your edit your demo reel, what did you appreciate?
00:06.080: You know, one of the ways that I deal with music, and I really like cutting music in Funnel Cut 10, I've talked about it a lot.
00:06.080: So it's really easy to like extendicate something.
00:06.080: Okay, now you put your your blade cuts or whatever on those markers.
00:06.080: So, and it's true.
00:06.160: But there's a lot of great reasons why they were.
00:06.160: Do you ever find that when you're
00:06.160: So I do kind of make it my specialty to work with
00:06.160: I mean, I have done some Final Cut X work.
00:06.160: And because it's in its own storyline
00:06.160: And w I might have a car that was shot on Tuesday night with the headlights on, and it appears in all three of those search strings.
00:06.160: Absolutely.
00:06.160: Well, we're going to hit you up with a week's worth of conforming charges.
00:06.240: And sometimes you can't give them every option and every lever, but
00:06.240: This is what I think you want.
00:06.240: Is that kind of what you were saying?
00:06.240: You poor bastard, you have only one hand now.
00:06.240: And they end up saying,
00:06.240: Right, right, right.
00:06.240: If you have if you know somebody who needs to be on this show or somebody you'd like to talk to or somebody you think that
00:06.320: And I was and I even like toward the end, it's like, I'm going to cut this, I'm going to cut this.
00:06.320: And can you have the studio camera guy
00:06.320: And I think that
00:06.320: See, I understand the producer's perspective.
00:06.320: They they you know the the the gag was that they they had the the the first phone that wasn't a phone, you know.
00:06.400: But it's not usually very practical, but it's sort of wonderful that
00:06.400: I've heard a number of stories, and a lot of them, you know, they were sort of told to me by another technician.
00:06.400: It's usually because they're not concise.
00:06.400: Well, no, it was actually quite interesting because you had relayed a story.
00:06.400: I bet you somebody's doing that.
00:06.400: If you're not interested in, you know, sort of
00:06.480: Before I did editing, though, I did quite a lot of tape-op work.
00:06.480: Now, you don't have to do a lot of it, but.
00:06.480: And when that wasn't the case, it meant that I had time to deal with it.
00:06.480: I'll tell you what, if you want to find Jesse Spencer in San Francisco, contact me.
00:06.560: Well, that would be like the RM450 and two U-Matic decks.
00:06.560: D are you on Twitter?
00:06.560: I mean, I mean, I'll tell the
00:06.560: But at the same time,
00:06.560: So it kind of means from the get-go
00:06.560: Right, right.
00:06.560: Where's the one that picks out the intro, the verse, the chorus, the middle eight?
00:06.560: Yeah.
00:06.560: I really appreciate you taking the time to chat with us.
00:06.640: You wouldn't be able to fit all your hours in a day.
00:06.640: I think that's the thing that bags a lot of people is they'll
00:06.640: I mean, there there's there comes a time where you have to have
00:06.640: You know, this show is called Final Cut Grill, and I know, I know.
00:06.640: Well, you know, I might extend uh and this is not because I think that Final Cut Pro X has this problem, but I believe that Final Co Cut Pro X
00:06.640: Okay, what else do you want to work on today?
00:06.640: Boom.
00:06.640: You know, some people, if they've got a montage or a sizzle, they take all their best clips and stick it into a timeline and then reduce down, reduce down.
00:06.640: Because I have said, and it's funny because you say that, because I have said on this show many times that I have.
00:06.640: It's an awesome tool until you have to put a screw in.
00:06.640: And it is fun.
00:06.640: You just said they were stupid.
00:06.640: Grab all the stuff.
00:06.640: Let me think this is the Friday episode.
00:06.720: Not that much of it.
00:06.720: 0?
00:06.720: And I think some of that had to do with the fact that she trusted me, and that was an honor because I'm a huge fan of her work.
00:06.720: And I think that's the thing that.
00:06.720: And then you do a series of trims as you tighten up and swap out.
00:06.720: Big difference between fast and efficient.
00:06.800: You know, maybe, maybe I'm not the right guy for you to be working with today.
00:06.800: And that was a mistake.
00:06.800: I got the job done by connecting to a series of dummy clips and fillers.
00:06.800: And then the other thing, and I don't know if you know this, but do you know that you can do what's called a range-based keywords?
00:06.800: You start with scene one, take one, you know, angle A.
00:06.800: Okay, fine.
00:06.800: Yeah.
00:06.880: I thought I had the right tone of voice, but the thing is, i if somebody's if somebody gives you a hard number like, well, here's how much gas is left in the tank,
00:06.880: It was something I knew I did not get to the bottom of and that there was a cleverer way to do it.
00:06.880: And you realize that
00:06.960: It's like, okay, okay, Jesse, this is your session.
00:06.960: So I don't want to get anybody in trouble, especially you.
00:06.960: That just seems.
00:07.040: And it's always getting better, but there's always going to be this area.
00:07.040: And I go, yeah, that would be great, but
00:07.040: Sorry, Apple, but this is actually a begrudging compliment.
00:07.040: Or just seemed like a throwback.
00:07.040: I can type into Google anything
00:07.040: You know?
00:07.040: Because I know I got a funny story, and I know this episode's going long.
00:07.120: That's interesting.
00:07.120: You make this whole lookup table in your brain.
00:07.200: No.
00:07.200: Whereas an hourly rate means you can spend as little or as much as you want.
00:07.200: But it's
00:07.200: And the thing is, like the lunch they buy me is not close to my hourly.
00:07.200: And what you try to be the best
00:07.200: Is
00:07.200: My demo reels are basically sizzles.
00:07.200: So all anything that is a keyword is going to show up in your library window.
00:07.200: It's like, oh, gee, I don't want that job.
00:07.200: And my answer is.
00:07.200: I'll cut that.
00:07.200: So, okay, so I feel much better.
00:07.200: And I have so much respect for the people that can do it well.
00:07.200: I can't, I gotta go.
00:07.280: But this is
00:07.280: And as a hired gun,
00:07.280: They start going.
00:07.280: You know, so what I'll do is
00:07.280: But there are so many tools like that.
00:07.280: And I suspect that people who work with Vegas, even if Vegas isn't the greatest, they're still doing great work.
00:07.280: It's come so far.
00:07.280: It's not.
00:07.360: But when you're cutting a pure music
00:07.360: It's just more like it's a mystery and
00:07.360: And now it's keyworded.
00:07.360: And I have so much respect for guys like you or
00:07.440: And there's a
00:07.440: You want to be able to control this so that you know, and that way you don't have to worry about whether it's getting done or not.
00:07.440: And once it's there, you know, and I could be
00:07.440: I have done that.
00:07.440: That's a really good point.
00:07.440: It's like, ah, okay.
00:07.440: There are editors that there's it's all experience, of course.
00:07.440: He's like, wow, you're really fast on this thing.
00:07.520: Because they were pulling you in different directions in this.
00:07.520: Yeah, Sony Vegas really is the punchline for all editors, isn't it?
00:07.520: I think that basically I
00:07.520: Drag it over.
00:07.600: This is once again, Final Cut Grill and Digital Cinema Cafe will be
00:07.600: And there's a lot of job pride in it.
00:07.600: Yeah.
00:07.600: There's something.
00:07.680: But if you haven't looked at premiumbeat.
00:07.680: And it was sort of on the way out.
00:07.680: Well, there are some producers who do this all the time.
00:07.680: But anyway, I think what's interesting is that
00:07.680: I'm not even certain anybody listens to this show, to be honest with you.
00:07.760: Good, good.
00:07.760: Are you saying there's no pipeline to get
00:07.760: And
00:07.760: You know, there's, you know, just put a little skin in the game and
00:07.760: And we had this complete Frankenstein edit in front of us.
00:07.760: And if I was doing it
00:07.760: That's a good point.
00:07.760: Which yeah, which, you know, how difficult would it be
00:07.760: Right, right, right.
00:07.760: Oh, it's a final cut job.
00:07.760: You know, I'm the sizzle reel king.
00:07.840: I found who you know, I knew who it was, but it's not somebody that I normally talk with.
00:07.840: And I said, And I'm not giving this to you to draw a line of sand.
00:07.840: What's that?
00:07.840: I think I can't remember what they call it.
00:07.920: So I guess I don't want to talk about it at all.
00:07.920: But then I started doing production in my early twenties.
00:07.920: You can make something wonderful.
00:07.920: I was, I was.
00:07.920: Yeah, totally.
00:07.920: But it's
00:07.920: I do have thresholds where I think that you get better as an editor.
00:08.000: And whether it's like getting involved in like a 48-hour film festival or just, you know.
00:08.000: Why, thank you.
00:08.080: And oh, and also I did a lot of voiceover.
00:08.080: It's pre-built to be the proper length.
00:08.080: There's a whole other way you could be doing this.
00:08.080: What was that?
00:08.080: So you'll be hearing from us again on Monday morning.
00:08.160: Well, it's true.
00:08.160: And I was like, I can see them, I can see them there, they're there.
00:08.160: Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:08.160: We still have a timeline.
00:08.160: Right.
00:08.160: Okay.
00:08.240: It's like it's nine o'clock at night when I'm recording this intro.
00:08.240: And that went into
00:08.240: And, you know, maybe I'll admit that the things that I enjoy.
00:08.240: If you just
00:08.240: I don't know what jobs they do.
00:08.240: It is frustrating.
00:08.240: And if you don't like it, you don't have to use it for anything, but
00:08.240: Butt it up against it.
00:08.320: There's something in the new organizational scheme that
00:08.320: You said
00:08.400: The producers certainly like
00:08.480: When you get up on it like that, how you been?
00:08.480: I never thought about that.
00:08.560: There is.
00:08.560: It's fantastic.
00:08.560: And that is, I don't understand how people can say that.
00:08.640: So I'd be there alone at night listening to the machines hum while
00:08.640: Well
00:08.640: So I ask everybody to please go support Premium Beat.
00:08.640: So you have two or three different spellings of the names.
00:08.640: It seems horribly maligned and everybody who has discovered the
00:08.640: Some of them were truly stupid.
00:08.720: And so in that way, I got a good little taste of
00:08.720: I am in love with PremiumB.
00:08.720: I did a show a couple of summers ago
00:08.720: I did.
00:08.720: I don't want to be a part of this.
00:08.800: So how did you
00:08.800: You kind of liked the connected clip, but it was sort of a pain.
00:08.800: How does what things does this make?
00:08.800: Right, right.
00:08.880: It's like the in-your-spare time thing.
00:08.880: That's the video was so hard to get right back then.
00:08.880: Right, right.
00:08.880: All right, we can wrap this up now.
00:08.960: And it tends to be a little less panic-inducing, I think.
00:08.960: So it's a dead heat as far as I'm concerned.
00:08.960: And usually, whenever you find a compromise in a spec,
00:08.960: Pretty much.
00:08.960: Fine.
00:09.040: Unless you happen to be an integrated sort of studio and it's all lined up.
00:09.040: Or does it g make people respect you for your history or something in the business?
00:09.120: So, you know, sorting through trim and
00:09.120: True.
00:09.120: And instead, I would just be shuffling them along, shuffle them along, you know.
00:09.120: com sponsors this show.
00:09.200: There's a ton of edits in those shows.
00:09.200: I'll cut that.
00:09.200: Command
00:09.280: But
00:09.280: In, out.
00:09.280: I mean, in the last three years.
00:09.280: And, you know, you are not the first, so you know, you are not the first.
00:09.360: It's the loops.
00:09.360: You're right.
00:09.360: But if you put two images together, and there are kids doing that all over the world, you know.
00:09.440: I liked it.
00:09.440: I'm actually doing it, that stutter.
00:09.440: Right, right.
00:09.440: They're not really excerpted.
00:09.440: I'm sure they are.
00:09.520: And like I said, I daily curse them.
00:09.520: Don't screw it up.
00:09.520: You know, done.
00:09.520: And then, and now all of a sudden, drag everything and blam, you've got it.
00:09.520: And plus, bus but you knows
00:09.600: You know?
00:09.600: Right.
00:09.600: But.
00:09.600: And you know
00:09.680: And you usually find out what the cost was for.
00:09.680: Oh, it
00:09.760: And it's not an intuitive answer, and it's not very comforting.
00:09.760: You know?
00:09.840: com, please absolutely go check that out.
00:09.840: But the Avid
00:09.840: You don't expect there to be an edit there when there was a little bit of a flub.
00:09.840: Tin you contain other boxes and items, but
00:09.920: I did.
00:09.920: I need to leave.
00:10.000: Could we do that too?
00:10.080: So, anyway.
00:10.080: And I I got news.
00:10.080: And so really in Final Cut 10
00:10.160: Yeah.
00:10.160: For example, the thing you don't want to have is people who
00:10.160: Or the worst part is, I think, you know.
00:10.160: What annoyed you?
00:10.160: It's absolutely doable.
00:10.160: It really opened
00:10.160: You know, premier fine
00:10.160: I think the difference between.
00:10.240: But it's
00:10.240: You could be tying your shoes if you had two hands.
00:10.240: Not the city of Vegas, right?
00:10.320: It was a corporate job starting, so there was a lot of slack time.
00:10.320: I know.
00:10.320: You drag a copy off.
00:10.320: And I can have a little downbeat section here, and I can have a.
00:10.320: Who are the stupidest editors?
00:10.320: Watch me do another one.
00:10.400: That's fine, that's fine, and I know that you don't.
00:10.400: Yeah.
00:10.480: People say, Oh, I need to take that.
00:10.480: And then I bought a Media 100.
00:10.480: Like I didn't know how to ripple and paste.
00:10.560: And basically, it's like little audio Legos.
00:10.560: This is brilliant.
00:10.560: Right.
00:10.560: I can either give it a keyword, you know, like, you know,
00:10.560: Yes, I do.
00:10.560: And I had to move onto this cruise ship for a week.
00:10.640: I'm lucky enough that I never took the type of job where
00:10.640: I'll hook you up with you.
00:10.880: How did you get into this business?
00:10.880: So maybe ninety five.
00:10.880: Yeah, money can be really
00:10.880: com because one of the things that you can do with their
00:10.960: And
00:10.960: Uh of course I can't do it too far, and I have to be really careful that they don't
00:11.040: A lot of it is, you know.
00:11.040: Why didn't we fix that?
00:11.040: You know?
00:11.120: And I think you'll appreciate this conversation.
00:11.120: Color TV wouldn't have come along until a lot later.
00:11.120: And it might take me a long time to realize that.
00:11.200: So there was a certain amount of
00:11.200: I go, really?
00:11.280: But at the same time, it's like
00:11.280: It's like, No
00:11.280: Are the ones who only ever learned one system.
00:11.440: I have no idea how you do that for months on end or whatever.
00:11.520: You weren't
00:11.520: Don't you hate that feeling?
00:11.520: There we go.
00:11.520: Later, later.
00:11.600: But it's something that
00:11.680: And I think that if you do it
00:11.680: Right.
00:11.680: Sorry.
00:11.680: And he goes, Oh, yeah, you're a lot faster than him.
00:11.760: I said, like,
00:11.760: And
00:11.840: So.
00:11.840: Right.
00:12.000: That would be awesome.
00:12.160: You know, and some of those things, like,
00:12.160: It's.
00:12.240: It all of those are different ways to
00:12.240: Right.
00:12.400: And
00:12.480: And at some point,
00:12.480: What were you doing in the early nineties then?
00:12.480: And
00:12.560: It's, you know.
00:12.560: Exactly.
00:12.560: So it's like.
00:12.720: So here we go.
00:12.720: So, what was it?
00:12.800: Yeah.
00:12.880: I open up a second.
00:13.200: And
00:14.080: And I was like
00:14.240: Let's go to the end.