Episode 43
FCG043 - The iPhone of Editors? (feat. Sean Lander)
Do you remember when we used to discuss the picture quality of an NLE? Believe it or not that was a big deal. Sean Lander and I discuss the old days and the various points in tech history where giant changes were made and some people got left behind. Sean also talks about how in FCPX he is “Always in the zone”. the untouchable - where the baby is going down the steps of
Download
Featuring
- Chris Fenwick
- Sean Lander - rednail.com.au @rednail
Transcription
00:00.001: So I thought he'd be educating you guys on how we speak over here.
00:00.001: And I quite like it.
00:00.080: Track seven, eight, that's um okay, that's uh a hundred percent effects.
00:00.160: You're the hot interview to get.
00:00.160: Pain in the butt.
00:00.160: They had to teach you about film.
00:00.160: Non-linear editor, because you could rewind back and go, No, I want to put in one more reaction shot here and cut it, pull it apart, drop in those 20 frames for that reaction.
00:00.160: I ended up making all these calls to Avid saying, this bin is taking like 20 minutes to open.
00:00.160: Oh, absolutely.
00:00.160: One $85,000.
00:00.160: and assurance, which is something that used to cost you four thousand dollars a year roughly to have you have it maintained.
00:00.160: Why would I want to put my beautiful images on the interwebs?
00:00.160: and start cutting our clients' web stuff with that because you know it's only for the web so it doesn't have to look good and it's only you know it's only postage stamp sized and
00:00.160: I found that Final Cut was just so much easier to use.
00:00.160: Gotcha.
00:00.160: You know, the main track's on track one, two, and you have to patch it every single time you did an edit.
00:00.160: Yeah, it seems to me there was some bug in Final Cut Classic too where at like sixteen tracks or something it would like play out of sync, or I can't remember what it was.
00:00.160: When I was watching that video and he was going, Look, you can move this and everything gets otherwise.
00:00.160: Or double clicking and scrolling.
00:00.160: I've actually heard a few other editors say the same thing.
00:00.160: And when you found somebody else, it was like, oh, yeah, yeah.
00:00.160: a film called The Untouchables, which is a reproduction of a Polanski um not Polanski, um what's this called?
00:00.160: To find a copy of actually, I think I have a copy of Untouchables around the office.
00:00.160: I don't understand why we can't consolidate media with handles.
00:00.160: So while you're moving, oh, that's two frames too light.
00:00.160: I'm not surprised.
00:00.160: And if all of a sudden I cut to something that's predominantly screen left, my mind isn't connecting that because I've already turned my attention one way.
00:00.160: So if you're editing for the live screen, always imagine that you are sitting there in the cinema watching it.
00:00.160: Yeah.
00:00.160: I don't, you know what?
00:00.240: With Sean Lander.
00:00.240: But before we get to the interview, I want to tell you that I have been working in my edit suite here, and I've been trying to get the lighting right.
00:00.240: so that I could do my video tutorials that I'm doing for Premium Beat.
00:00.240: I love their music because it seems to work well with voiceover.
00:00.240: And it has this it it fights.
00:00.240: Do you know Wilfred?
00:00.240: you know, uh, I think I I think I did Jason Wingrove once at like eleven PM or something.
00:00.240: I get the I hear these words.
00:00.240: Okay, so you saw that and you said, I want to do this.
00:00.240: And off we went.
00:00.240: He's a premier editor.
00:00.240: where he takes little scenes from movies and he breaks it down and he shows, you know, the science and the art behind the cuts.
00:00.240: And usually you just stick that on the projector and show everyone, and that was it.
00:00.240: basically made for making repairs.
00:00.240: Preview, yeah.
00:00.240: and nothing else for a starter anyway.
00:00.240: Yeah, exactly.
00:00.240: Do a bit of corporate editing and a bit of shooting and da da da.
00:00.240: you know, seminal moments in the industry really do separate people.
00:00.240: Absolutely.
00:00.240: Yeah, the Wayne Gretzky line.
00:00.240: I'm always fascinated by that and having three AVIDs and knowing how expensive they are
00:00.240: and it looks pretty good.
00:00.240: And I just went, Whoa, this thing is way more powerful than that What I can do with this is just so much better
00:00.240: if this final cut thing is a toy, like everyone's saying it is, well, you know, it doesn't really matter.
00:00.240: Got to get rid of these avids as quickly as possible before they're worthless.
00:00.240: But I always find it's really important that people understand that there are many, many people out there using Funnel Cut X.
00:00.240: And it's not because I'm inexperienced.
00:00.240: I'm spending half an hour learning about the rigmarole of their systems and all this sort of stuff.
00:00.240: That's right.
00:00.240: that various things needed to be in the timeline because in pe for whatever reason, if they're going into
00:00.240: until it was released.
00:00.240: You know, he's an older guy like us, and he was just infuriated that he couldn't just put things where he wanted them to be.
00:00.240: But then you start to realize, you know what, I don't really care where it physically is.
00:00.240: I don't think so though.
00:00.240: you know, I was expecting to sort of turn him around, but he said, Yeah, no, I've heard a few things and I'm a I've been playing with it myself on my um Retina MacBook Pro.
00:00.240: You know, young editors start flooding into the workforce who actually do know how to use this.
00:00.240: And now, all of a sudden, they're available on the workforce, and I need to hire new editors.
00:00.240: Is toying with this because I've been saying for a while now that, especially to editors that don't want to consider this as a viable option, that
00:00.240: From what I can see, it looks fine to me.
00:00.240: I was saying, you know, I believe in, you know, six to 12 months, this conversation is going to be much different.
00:00.240: There's one because I, as you pointed out in the beginning, I have done a lot of training.
00:00.240: where uh the baby's going down the um the steps on the um in Grand Central Station.
00:00.240: There's a place in Berkeley called uh I think it's called Rasputins, and it is an old time record store
00:00.240: All right.
00:00.240: And that's what it should all be about, really, in the end.
00:00.240: I found many more hurdles training in Final Cut Pro Classic or Avid.
00:00.240: trim tools are just superb, sublime.
00:00.240: A.
00:00.240: Yeah, I tease them about that all the time.
00:00.240: 30-meter-wide screen, you often have to pull things back a little bit, maybe two frames
00:00.240: Very cool.
00:00.240: I've done this in some cases, very few, for multiple decades.
00:00.320: And so I've been working on those, and I don't know when those are going to be made available.
00:00.320: So we couldn't be happier that Premium Beat wanted to support this show.
00:00.320: you know, background music, it's not background.
00:00.320: From Rednail Media.
00:00.320: Chairman Meow, James.
00:00.320: Must be, yes.
00:00.320: Oh, it was Jason Wingrove, and he was using some terms.
00:00.320: Yep.
00:00.320: No, no, I was 14.
00:00.320: My parents were given one of those coupons that says, if you buy this amount of film, you get a free camera.
00:00.320: And as soon as I got my hands on this thing, I just said, right, let's go.
00:00.320: Another eight or ten years before I realized, wow, you can make a living doing this stuff.
00:00.320: Um have you ever seen um do you know uh Vashi?
00:00.320: That's always made me think, wow, you know.
00:00.320: And when you look at stuff like that, I re I realize what a hack I am, for one.
00:00.320: you know, really changes the feel of something.
00:00.320: and then moved it down, cut it out, and then moved it down a little bit later.
00:00.320: By making just moving that little bit of three inches of film from here to there, I had suddenly changed everything and I had an emotional response to that.
00:00.320: running around with a film camera with a a Super Raider, you probably remember it was a cartridge.
00:00.320: have said, you know, oh no, I don't want to edit on a computer because I miss that viscer visceral tactile thing.
00:00.320: You know, it's like that just the physicality of I am going to physically pick this up and move it to here and glue it in and
00:00.320: a bit more accuracy, BVE eight hundred, but never been able to really make those decis those hard decisions like it.
00:00.320: it was there.
00:00.320: And that's what reminded me about how much freedom there was.
00:00.320: And always on the bleeding edge.
00:00.320: in news and they're going, what?
00:00.320: But I quickly became the most popular editor because I was always tweaking stuff.
00:00.320: In the beginning of the nonlinear world, you would not broadcast or share or certainly submit to a festival anything that came out of your computer.
00:00.320: And that portion of the equation is essentially gone.
00:00.320: all of the documents, every single bit of film, everything that had ever been filmed on these guys was to be put into a documentary.
00:00.320: Was a marketing point.
00:00.320: you couldn't do it linear.
00:00.320: we had to look at systems.
00:00.320: if you know you're old enough, we're the same age, you remember the the the transition from shooting on cameras with tubes to shooting on cameras with chips.
00:00.320: All of these images, that's it is a commitment.
00:00.320: I know that somewhere along the way, you got into using Final Cut Studio and Final Cut Classic.
00:00.320: that made that documentary series said, oh, this is just awesome.
00:00.320: We left the ABC and we created a company called Global Vision, still going.
00:00.320: No, we sold them a lot of advertising agencies, so it's probably still running them.
00:00.320: who are honest to goodness, professionals, been in this business for decades.
00:00.320: and freelancing very successful.
00:00.320: Okay, right, so that's track one and two, that's natural effects, track three and four, that's also natural effects, track five and six, that's voiceover.
00:00.320: V3 was the description, V4 was and so you were sitting there with like twenty-five, thirty tracks.
00:00.320: of this man you know thing you couldn't even manage.
00:00.320: So I saw that video in 2011 and I thought, wow, this is it was almost it was almost like they had been listening to what I had been thinking.
00:00.320: you know, for the last year.
00:00.320: And then I saw this video and I thought, oh, of course, it just makes total sense.
00:00.320: you don't have to lay it out in tracks.
00:00.320: Because I mean, I agree that the that the way Final Cut treats audio, you know, at first you're like, ugh, that's weird.
00:00.320: Eventually things go on the wrong tracks, particularly when you've got 25 or 30 tracks.
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: And the forums exploded that day.
00:00.320: Would you like to get involved?
00:00.320: and his passion for metadata.
00:00.320: And once it was in, so easy to move around, so flexible, so sweet.
00:00.320: But then once that was done, man, the edit was just like I was always in the zone.
00:00.320: Scrub, scrub, click, click, scrub, scrub, click, click, scrub, scrub.
00:00.320: Last Friday, and I'm really pleased to say this because I've never heard it before, I said that same retort, because I often like watching the face sc you know, curl up and
00:00.320: you know, they cut their student film or you know, 16-year-old kids doing skateboard videos.
00:00.320: And so you're going to have to run into it.
00:00.320: from multiple areas.
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: Yeah, it seems to work.
00:00.320: When Final Cut Pro, I think it was three, I think that's when people began to sit up and take notice.
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: you have not been educated well because there are plenty of us out here using this tool efficiently and profitably.
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: like old DVDs and I typically I rip them because I like having them on my laptop and I am headed there this afternoon.
00:00.320: You know, there's this razor blade, and there's this hatchet, and there's a pair of scissors.
00:00.320: Don't eat that scene.
00:00.320: When it comes down to it, you are back on the steam back, and you are just got two bits of film.
00:00.320: That's what should be driving you.
00:00.320: In Australia, everyone uses that Pro Tools for doing audio or Nuendo or something like that.
00:00.320: Find yourself in that you think, oh, I need to adjust this.
00:00.320: Okay.
00:00.320: and you can just see it adjust, and you can listen to it over and over and over again.
00:00.320: And that's so important.
00:00.320: And audio as well.
00:00.320: I can JKL before or I can trim the outgoing frame, trim the ingoing frame without ever taking my hands off the keyboard.
00:00.320: More media back there.
00:00.320: he monitors online forums and stuff and sort of interjects himself into things where people when if people start complaining about things, it's like, well, let's
00:00.320: And I know that when he got on an Adobe about four years ago, one of the first things he did is started harping about, let's make the trim tools better.
00:00.320: And I think that I come from a live background where you only had one chance to cut it.
00:00.320: And I apologize if some of that kind of eighties, nineties history seemed a little drawn out.
00:00.320: So thanks for listening.
00:00.320: everyone, I know that Alistair and all that, we really, really love what you're doing.
00:00.320: But no, I loved it.
00:00.400: Couldn't be more excited to be doing that.
00:00.400: Yes.
00:00.400: And I thought, wow, that's incredible.
00:00.400: Yeah, a nightmare.
00:00.400: It reminded me of the freedom of film compared to what I was doing for a living at that time in videotape.
00:00.400: You know, that's actually a really good point.
00:00.400: It's a good hint.
00:00.400: Seven, I think it was, no, no, sorry, nine gigabytes of storage for the entire history of the Labour Party, 13 years.
00:00.400: and w on which was stored all the every single news story that had ever been done on them.
00:00.400: 1983 to 1990 or something like that, and the other one was from 1990 to 193 or something.
00:00.400: twenty four megabytes of RAM.
00:00.400: how to organize stuff and you know, but I was very lucky at that time also that as I said before, that I had worked on film.
00:00.400: you know, that baptism of fire put me right up there with the top avid editors in Australia.
00:00.400: That's right, per machine.
00:00.400: all the time with lots of TV.
00:00.400: And so and at that stage, early nineties, Avid was a license to print money.
00:00.400: But there was this new thing called the web.
00:00.400: you know, a lot of these, you know, agency based houses, you know, they have all this commitment to this hardware and they're just gonna run that stuff into the ground 'cause they spent an arm and a leg and a Porsche for them.
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: And then they would give you their lower thirds.
00:00.400: What did you think of what did you think of then when it was met with such vitriol?
00:00.400: Right.
00:00.400: So much of your time editing nowadays is sorting through bins or folders or looking for stuff and clicking and scrolling and clicking and scrolling and clicking and scrolling.
00:00.400: Once I had all that hard work done, I did spend one day just tagging everything, favoritizing stuff.
00:00.400: I say, yeah, it's the best NLE I've ever used, by far.
00:00.400: And so, yeah, it is thrilling.
00:00.400: Who started a project, decided he needed help, and comes to you and says, I started it in the final ten, and can you help me out?
00:00.400: You know, maybe 18 months.
00:00.400: Yes, you're right.
00:00.400: You know, I mean, oh, we've been roped into doing audio and effects and da da da da da da da da da, but at the very core, most of us
00:00.400: got into this business because we like the emotional response that we get from the way that we cut one shot to another.
00:00.400: your website, your home page.
00:00.400: out of your way is something that I just say hands down, thank you very much, Apple, for doing that because you've given me a tool that makes me feel like an editor again rather than engineer.
00:00.400: To turn around, get behind the monitors, and I would stand there behind the monitors while my audience, the producers and the people that worked on it, would watch it.
00:00.400: That's when you know you've done a good edit.
00:00.400: Okay, Sean, thanks so much for taking the time.
00:00.400: And give the show some stars.
00:00.480: and also Alastair Robbie.
00:00.480: I can't tell you, man.
00:00.480: Then that's what I want to do forever.
00:00.480: How to actually turn this into a paycheck.
00:00.480: I think that's what computer editing gave us back.
00:00.480: This was still a very expensive scratch pad, where you were working out your ideas.
00:00.480: that was fine because you could charge a hell of a lot of money per hour.
00:00.480: And this is about 1999.
00:00.480: And it was like After Effects and Avid combined, for my view.
00:00.480: And it's a comfort, it's a comfort thing for the client, I guess, that they go into the soft room with the nice couches and the beautiful lighting and the bar fridge and sit there and get what they want.
00:00.480: you would get to facility houses and you would walk into the edit suite.
00:00.480: you know, final finishing or audio post or whatever, these things had to be in a certain spot.
00:00.480: And I'm yeah, I'm on the blooding edge most of the time.
00:00.480: This is just, I haven't been like this for a long time.
00:00.480: And you know, the true, the predominant response you get is, what?
00:00.480: from younger editors, and they're like, yeah, he cut it in ten.
00:00.480: Absolutely.
00:00.480: In a film or television show that hasn't okay, and you're answering the question, but what I'm asking for are that you find to be like seminal inspirational moments.
00:00.480: They have a whole vinyl section downstairs, but they also have a used movie section.
00:00.480: And that it can sometimes be the other way around, but very rarely.
00:00.480: It's pretty easy.
00:00.480: And I've been asking this of people lately, and I don't know I don't even know if this question has gotten out in the wild yet.
00:00.480: Put it aside with handles just in case.
00:00.480: Interesting.
00:00.480: You have no other distractions around you.
00:00.480: It is really fun to watch people's first reactions.
00:00.480: One last question.
00:00.480: I couldn't think of a name.
00:00.480: But I listened to it and I was like, Yeah, I don't want to cut it out.
00:00.560: you're missing one key Australian, and you gotta talk with Sean Lander.
00:00.560: Ask an editor to do lighting.
00:00.560: But not only that, but how to swap out your temp files really easily.
00:00.560: No, no, it's me.
00:00.560: Why in the world would you ever get into this business?
00:00.560: Yeah, the pre-rolls.
00:00.560: Can I go back and change it?
00:00.560: and at a production house, and the guy said, Oh, look, you show a bit of promise.
00:00.560: And, you know, that that's where the nonlinear thing just really excited me.
00:00.560: You talk about the various levels of the AVR, whatever.
00:00.560: And because I'd come up through news, I graduated to current affairs and suddenly I was nominated to become a political documentary maker.
00:00.560: Because so many videotape editors in that stage just couldn't handle it.
00:00.560: So you so now, you know, let's jump forward to 2011.
00:00.560: A short film that was going to play at the beginning of every cinema release film in a cinema sort of thing.
00:00.560: I was very lucky that a good friend of mine, we had made a couple of films together, had landed some short films, and he said
00:00.560: And I remember ringing up the director and I said, I'm finished.
00:00.560: Sorted, the edit becomes just like butter, you know, a hot knife through butter.
00:00.560: I said it to a producer, I said, Funnel Cut Pro 10.
00:00.560: And you can either acknowledge that or not.
00:00.560: And the the edit from one shot to another is what we do.
00:00.560: When the sound the speed of sound is broken.
00:00.560: To Cupertino and find the guys that are programming Final Cut Pro.
00:00.560: You can hold down the pause key, so you can tap frame forwards, tap frame backwards.
00:00.560: Or um or I'm just naive and I um I really need to learn the power of these tools better.
00:00.560: If you have not already, go check out Premium Beat.
00:00.640: A lot of Australians in America, that's for sure.
00:00.640: And I started my full-time sort of editing career.
00:00.640: 91.
00:00.640: Anyway, for me, um i i the the image quality was it was uh barely viewable.
00:00.640: And we were to do a thing on thirteen years of the Labour Party, which is like your Dem Democratic Party over there.
00:00.640: And that was but by the stage we got to 2001, the writing was clearly on the wall.
00:00.640: You know, oh, yeah, we should definitely do that in the flame.
00:00.640: Sometimes they most annoyingly they say voiceover on track one and two, you go, Oh my god, because you know Final Cut Pro 7 would always default to
00:00.640: per camera just because there's so many people.
00:00.640: What we are going to see more and more of is one of two things.
00:00.640: It's amazing.
00:00.640: Beautiful cut.
00:00.640: And bypassing all the marketing guys who get in the way of the engineers actually doing the programmers doing what we actually want.
00:00.640: I have heard you ask this question a bit, and I'm going to repeat probably the same answers that most people have been giving you, like customizable interface.
00:00.640: Whereas watching on a small screen on a television set, it's quite different.
00:00.720: I think his last name is V uh I he's one that he to me he's like you know Madonna and Cher.
00:00.720: And then move on.
00:00.720: I don't remember the Avid timeline, but when did Avid get to the point where it was actually doing full resolution?
00:00.720: We got it.
00:00.720: And then you got it and you started to take it apart and look at it.
00:00.720: Yeah.
00:00.720: What is it about the avid trim tool that you like?
00:00.720: Thank you so much.
00:00.800: Yeah, so so speaking here is Sean Lander, right?
00:00.800: So I was a, I don't know, ten years old or something, twelve years old, and I just thought, if this can be what you can make and it can have that kind of effect on somebody
00:00.800: like many, I saw Star Wars and it really moved me.
00:00.800: I don't know.
00:00.800: I've never shot a frame of film, motion picture film, in my life.
00:00.800: Been affected most by like Star Wars or King Kong or things like that is been when I think about it deeply is the editing.
00:00.800: even though I had selected it as a contender.
00:00.800: Apple have done the right thing.
00:00.800: And the show start this show started in late in late November last year.
00:00.800: you know, being able to use scopes, and so it's all very technical.
00:00.800: Left and right.
00:00.800: There's a nail through it.
00:00.880: It was a a drop-in card that went into a G4 and did real-time broadcast, you know.
00:00.880: Got it.
00:00.880: A voiceover with lots of beautiful images shot on the C300.
00:00.880: Okay, I'm going to go off topic here because you're making me think of something.
00:00.880: I'm about to.
00:00.880: I am a complete hack and a horrible editor, and I really should be trimming my edits and making them better.
00:00.960: It's like we don't even have that discussion anymore.
00:00.960: And then, you know, and that that switch over to committing things to a computer, to trusting that there's some magic in this computer box that's going to retain
00:00.960: Would you like to become an avid instructor?
00:00.960: and clients asking for web-based material, I thought, well, there's this new kid on the block, and I've seen the demos, and I've had to play with a beta.
00:00.960: logically and of you know sound mind and spirit you know and so when you look at what Final Cut 10 is doing in that transition
00:00.960: And like everyone that you've interviewed so far, I had had it done in two days when I thought it would take me five.
00:00.960: And what do I do the rest of my week?
00:00.960: Yeah, I I couldn't agree more.
00:00.960: A much better precision editor.
00:00.960: I don't think anyone does.
00:00.960: Kevin Monaghan was he wrote I think he wrote a whole book about Final Cut early on.
00:00.960: He talks about de-escalating people.
00:00.960: Is that what you mean by that?
00:01.040: If you looked at the some of the stuff that was broadcast, you would say you should never have broadcast that.
00:01.040: Yeah.
00:01.040: But this is a long way.
00:01.040: And and you know so I just need to just jump back a little bit.
00:01.040: I didn't want to tell anyone, but I quite like it.
00:01.040: You learn as you're doing television, you sit there, maybe you do your first television job and you start thinking, oh, this looks really good, and you edit that and then they come in and say, No, no, get rid of that.
00:01.040: Explain to me.
00:01.040: Thanks a lot.
00:01.120: It was part of your indoctrination, I guess.
00:01.120: It's a very good hint because I got in my early career, I sort of like started as a student.
00:01.120: You know, and and remember the guy's like, oh, I can't use that.
00:01.120: Okay, so because of that documentary, it became an award-winning documentary, biggest talked about thing, blah, blah, blah.
00:01.120: How did you make that transition?
00:01.120: So fast track to twenty eleven, when Final Cut Pro that first video that we all saw.
00:01.120: Not a great way to be creative, in my opinion.
00:01.120: You can highlight a role and you can see where it is on the timeline.
00:01.120: Well, I didn't.
00:01.120: I will I will uh a common occurrence for me after I do interviews with people is there's a um
00:01.120: And he's there.
00:01.120: I don't even know what day of the week this is, so I can't tell you when the next episode is.
00:01.200: Right, right, right.
00:01.200: I know.
00:01.200: I'm a trainer second, actually.
00:01.200: And, you know, we just started making movies around the block, you know, got roped in all the kids around the block and, you know, just started making films as close to Star Wars as we could possibly make.
00:01.200: And so he was that kind of guy that was always on the cutting edge because cost was always paramount.
00:01.200: And I said, Yep, I've got the perfect program for us to try.
00:01.200: Other editors who kind of give you that look, you know, the look when you say I'm cutting in Final Cut 10.
00:01.280: The preview that was plus or minus four frames.
00:01.280: This is so interesting because I rarely get to talk to people that have the same amount of history as I do, for one.
00:01.280: Okay.
00:01.280: So I'll try this out and if it fails, then I'll just revert back to Final Capro 7.
00:01.280: I don't get it either.
00:01.280: Sorry, total distraction there.
00:01.280: I couldn't agree more.
00:01.280: But until Apple maybe decides to change things and then the plugin's broken.
00:01.360: And how well you could scratch the needle on the film.
00:01.360: Actually, hold on.
00:01.360: What do you say to people like that who they expect it to be on track seven, eight, nine, ten, whatever?
00:01.360: Yeah, chop that out.
00:01.360: stuff.
00:01.440: To me, I never connected the dots.
00:01.440: So Lightworks was considered and Avid was considered.
00:01.440: I was very, very excited, as most people were.
00:01.440: Yeah.
00:01.440: Yep.
00:01.440: There are still people that are speaking from what I would call a position of an ignorance might be too strong, but certainly
00:01.440: And if people want to follow you, I know you're on Twitter.
00:01.520: You've heard me talk about it.
00:01.520: And so I was always on that kind of edge, learning, always, you know, BV 900, all that sort of stuff.
00:01.520: it gets so often you know, people talk about what can you do in the editor.
00:01.520: It blows my mind.
00:01.520: But I have always said to Kevin, I go, you know, Kevin, I don't understand.
00:01.520: Yep.
00:01.520: I thought, I'll just spell it backwards.
00:01.600: Good morning.
00:01.600: Now, we've spoken with Chris Hawking.
00:01.600: I mean, I know they're there, but they're all far away.
00:01.600: Suggested you might like to speak to or ratted, yes.
00:01.600: What a nightmare.
00:01.600: 13 years with two political members going head to head sort of thing.
00:01.600: And I think it's going to be the same thing again.
00:01.600: So it's going to do a play around where it gives a certain amount of pre-roll and a certain amount of post-roll, and there's some sort of keyboard thing where you can
00:01.600: Thank you, my friend.
00:01.680: Not really, not really.
00:01.680: It's burnt into my head.
00:01.680: I can't remember what it is now.
00:01.680: And I just spent the time because I read a lot about it and I thought, well, I'll really, really understand.
00:01.680: So, and it's the same again.
00:01.680: I really appreciate it.
00:01.760: So I sought him out, found him, and that's who you're going to listen to today.
00:01.760: Yeah, you're rounding out the I think it's what is it now, four or five Australian Final Cut 10 editors I've spoken with.
00:01.760: Yeah, that's very early.
00:01.760: And my initial workflow was to create two bins.
00:01.760: But yeah, a fifteen year old could do it in his backyard with a with Final Cut Pro 10.
00:01.760: And it was actually when I saw that reaction that I was more interested in buying it and then I did.
00:01.760: Interesting analogy.
00:01.760: Absolutely.
00:01.760: That's why you become an editor, because those things are very, very important.
00:01.760: Yep.
00:01.840: Yeah, I can't, I can't, I literally can't even remember it.
00:01.840: Well, he's an editor.
00:01.840: It's like, well, look, yeah, but look how good this looks.
00:01.840: It was impossible.
00:01.840: And it changed every time.
00:01.840: He's a pretty big reality guy.
00:01.840: But I will say that even today, it is now April 27th, which is 2014.
00:01.840: you know, giving us the best tools.
00:01.840: What are the biggest hurdles that you find people have, and how do you get them over that hurdle?
00:01.920: That's why everyone said, oh, you got to talk to him.
00:01.920: They had to teach you about Ohm's Law.
00:01.920: I didn't.
00:01.920: I get that.
00:02.000: You're right about that.
00:02.000: And it was a movie camera.
00:02.000: Just find me one good camera with tubes these days.
00:02.000: All the flack I copped, you know, for just even trying it.
00:02.000: Okay.
00:02.000: I mean, I have heard people say the Avid trim tools are better.
00:02.080: And they threw me in there and I said, Oh, why don't you get a BV 900, you know, and we'll start doing a bit of A to B roll and a few dissolves maybe even.
00:02.080: Well, first of all, they say, What do you like?
00:02.080: Right.
00:02.160: That's debatable.
00:02.160: Uneducated, because and not that that person is uneducated, but in regards to this topic
00:02.160: I'm just about to.
00:02.160: Red nail.
00:02.240: So I love Premium Beats, I love the way it works, and I think you will too.
00:02.240: I'm like, what do they mean?
00:02.240: I'm an editor first.
00:02.240: Right.
00:02.240: That's a really interesting thing.
00:02.240: Yep.
00:02.240: It's called Final Cut.
00:02.240: I want to stop you here for a second.
00:02.240: Take care.
00:02.320: That could be fest in the dog suit.
00:02.320: And uh it was sh shortly after that.
00:02.320: The way the Precision Editor works is just not very friendly.
00:02.320: That kind of thing, yeah.
00:02.400: I met with them at NAB and I begged them and I said, please, I want to talk about Premium Beat with the listeners of the show.
00:02.400: And clearly you're talking about THX 1138.
00:02.400: The Wayne Gretzky, yeah.
00:02.400: Oh, really?
00:02.400: And you can either choose to deal with them or not deal with them.
00:02.480: I never really thought about that.
00:02.480: And so yeah, it was just it was just a a wild time.
00:02.480: So you just lasso it and you're in trim, right?
00:02.560: Welcome to another episode of Final Cut Grill.
00:02.560: A nightmare.
00:02.560: Yeah.
00:02.560: And I was scratching my head as how do we get around this problem?
00:02.560: Well, it's interesting that you're keying in on the on the way Final Cut treats audio.
00:02.560: So what do you like?
00:02.560: Whether the graphics are flying left to right or the colors and that should be other people's jobs.
00:02.560: See you, Mike.
00:02.640: So I've been messing around with some lighting ideas because what I wanted to do is have a permanent setup
00:02.640: Well, if you're in videotape land, no, you can't.
00:02.640: But as the years went on and technology grew and grew and grew.
00:02.640: Yeah.
00:02.640: And you can play it, you can review it, you can trim it on the fly, you can JKL left and right.
00:02.640: It's like, okay, I know you're angry.
00:02.640: I'll nail it.
00:02.720: Always adopted the latest stuff.
00:02.720: All my connections are through television.
00:02.720: And I'm going to guess you're going to say, well, it was the next thing.
00:02.720: Sean, when you sit down with editors that are new to the Final Cut 10 experience and you're training them
00:02.720: Come on.
00:02.720: It it just totally changes the edit.
00:02.720: Yeah.
00:02.800: And after speaking with those guys, they actually contacted me and said, Hey
00:02.800: Actually, you know, there's there is a lot of that.
00:02.800: So Sean, tell tell me a little bit about what you do, who you are, what your history is.
00:02.800: Let's just say he's an editor.
00:02.800: And people heard about us, and Avid heard about us, and they knew about me.
00:02.800: And he goes, what?
00:02.800: And I said, You know, that's exactly why I started this show because you would have those conversations with people.
00:02.800: Kevin is Adobe's.
00:02.880: I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow.
00:02.880: Yeah.
00:02.880: But you know what I'm saying?
00:02.960: Okay.
00:02.960: Crazy.
00:02.960: I saw it before with Final Cut Pro Classic.
00:02.960: It's producing broadcast quality images.
00:02.960: So you start with a scalpel, you finish with an axe.
00:02.960: But yeah, it's cute, but it's not very functional, is it really?
00:02.960: Like I've said many times before, that really does help other people find the show.
00:02.960: I think it's important to understand that the people who are choosing this application, we are real professionals.
00:03.040: Absolutely.
00:03.040: That was pre-broadcastable, correct?
00:03.040: There would be a guideline, if you will.
00:03.040: They've changed it.
00:03.040: I ever need to come back to it.
00:03.040: I'm just finishing a documentary of tomorrow night, so we'll find out how well it's going to be.
00:03.040: So you just tap it, it'll review and show it to you again.
00:03.120: And that's kind of the moment when I just thought, oh, so much power.
00:03.120: No matter how many assistants you had, it was just never going to work.
00:03.120: Yep.
00:03.120: And I remember sitting there thinking, there's got to be a better way.
00:03.120: You saw it in the it's so funny that so many people talk about that pirated video.
00:03.120: Yes.
00:03.120: And I've thought about it a lot because I don't think Final Cut Pro 10 is a great editor, but what I think it is, is just fantastic at organizing your material.
00:03.120: Well, there's not really much point to it.
00:03.200: But anyway.
00:03.200: Absolute nightmare.
00:03.200: No.
00:03.200: And it's interesting that you're saying a producer, a reality producer.
00:03.280: Yeah, there's most of the people that listen to the show have no idea.
00:03.280: I think that's yeah, I'm not so sure about that actually.
00:03.280: What do you and I was like, why are we not discussing this?
00:03.280: But yeah, so it's you know, it's all about telling stories, and it's all about
00:03.280: I really appreciate having this conversation.
00:03.360: A movie camera, yes, a Super 8 movie camera.
00:03.360: This is twenty eight minutes into this little discussion.
00:03.360: I can I'll never forget that day.
00:03.360: And I think part of the reason why I asked you that is I'm sitting here staring at your
00:03.360: If you find it in your heart, go to iTunes and leave a comment.
00:03.440: You know, three minutes of film, here we go.
00:03.440: But it was one day I thought, well, if I just chopped this little bit out of this scene, and like it was, you know, a gunfight, and I just took one half of it out.
00:03.440: That's right.
00:03.440: Right, of course, because every house is going to be a little bit different.
00:03.440: It sounds very boring, but I really understand where he's coming from because once you have that groundwork
00:03.440: And it took me a while to understand that you have these instruments of cutting in this logo.
00:03.440: Yeah, that's the best thing about it.
00:03.440: Where does that nail that name come from?
00:03.520: Yeah, I think you and I are about the same age.
00:03.520: And it was umatic.
00:03.520: You know, um the ABC being so thorough, they had to teach you about quad.
00:03.520: Even though, you know, when you cut something and you drop it on the floor, yeah, it's on the floor.
00:03.520: I have never really thought of that, that f c literally cutting film is the first
00:03.520: You know, we almost forget, and I think younger kids, kids, you know, 35, whatever, and under, you don't realize that
00:03.520: Look at that image.
00:03.520: Just make sure that aperture is not pointing at the side now.
00:03.520: Yeah.
00:03.520: So we said yes.
00:03.520: I'd seen that.
00:03.520: Why?
00:03.520: Yeah, it depends on your hardware, I guess.
00:03.520: Okay.
00:03.520: Clicking, scroll, scroll, scroll.
00:03.520: Avid or final cut?
00:03.520: Was he hanging out with Alistair?
00:03.520: So then one last question.
00:03.520: I don't think I would have thought of that.
00:03.600: And so I learnt everything, which was fine for me because it was a lot cheaper than doing a university course.
00:03.600: Yeah.
00:03.600: Been you know, living in Canada for nine years.
00:03.600: So because you're touching on something that's important, but I'm actually not experienced with it.
00:03.600: Yep.
00:03.600: And then you're back into the zone.
00:03.600: I don't quite understand why that's so difficult.
00:03.600: You can review, review, review until you think you've got it absolutely spot on.
00:03.600: So action can be a little bit more than that.
00:03.680: Now Premium Beat has stepped up and they've decided that they want to sponsor this show and I couldn't be happier.
00:03.680: Hello, hello.
00:03.680: I thought, oh, the poor bastard has done that many calls to Australia.
00:03.680: We tried.
00:03.680: It literally is my favorite place to get music.
00:03.760: What is daubed?
00:03.760: And then I left my business and went freelancing.
00:03.840: I looked at that and I was like, yeah, those are like magic people that do that.
00:03.840: That's very interesting.
00:03.840: I didn't.
00:03.840: It blows my mind.
00:03.840: The one thing that Avid still has over every other single nonlinear editor is that
00:03.920: Who else do we have?
00:03.920: And this film camera came with a little splicer, just like your little, you know, normal tape splicer.
00:03.920: What was your initial disappointment?
00:03.920: I said, I finished.
00:03.920: My co-host on Digital Cinema Cafe, Alex McLean, he's a colorist and he is already seeing music videos coming up.
00:03.920: I just feel like history is repeating.
00:04.000: It's trying to be, you know, it's like a frustrated rock and roller who's like, yeah, make some production music.
00:04.000: I did.
00:04.000: Correct.
00:04.000: Crazy.
00:04.000: Oh, yeah.
00:04.000: Can you colorize this?
00:04.000: Yep, that's right.
00:04.080: Those are the people I like.
00:04.080: Absolutely.
00:04.080: Keep everything self-contained, break it out when you need it, and leave it as it is when you don't need it.
00:04.080: So now when you are talking with
00:04.080: Okay.
00:04.080: You can cut it right the first time.
00:04.080: What's your Twitter handle and stuff like that?
00:04.160: Right.
00:04.160: It really is fascinating when you look at great films and I'm not even a good film historian at all.
00:04.160: And he does a lot of stuff on his website, Vashi Visuals, I think it is.
00:04.160: So we sold them all and went on.
00:04.160: No.
00:04.160: And I'm like, oh, yeah, these are all different resolutions that you can cut something.
00:04.160: It's very important.
00:04.240: Ratted out.
00:04.240: Correct.
00:04.240: It looks like crap.
00:04.240: And that's why I think Final Cut Pro 10 succeeds so well, because it just gets all that nonsense out of your way.
00:04.240: That's what your job is.
00:04.320: I mean, there's uh oh, who?
00:04.320: Alistair is the only one I actually know in person.
00:04.320: I was by the time I became professional, I was you know, it was videotape
00:04.320: And then you have people that are making workflow decisions based on hardware that they already have that they need to keep busy.
00:04.320: And Avid can only monitor twenty four tracks at the most.
00:04.320: And that's what really convinced me.
00:04.320: And I say, Final cut.
00:04.320: Let's discuss this.
00:04.320: Yeah.
00:04.400: Um I I I um my career I I I was always a technifo like technical um uh geek.
00:04.400: I remember when I bought my Media 100, you bought it because the visual image was so stunning.
00:04.400: I was sitting there going, Yes.
00:04.400: It's not watching the edit, it's watching the reaction to the edit.
00:04.480: What does that mean?
00:04.480: Anyway, we grew and grew and grew.
00:04.480: I'm on a few forums and I just like to watch.
00:04.480: Right.
00:04.480: Okay.
00:04.480: And particularly when you're cutting for the big screen, the edit is so much more visual, I mean so much more in your face there, and it's so important.
00:04.560: Yeah, that's right.
00:04.560: Yeah.
00:04.640: Ah, well, you have George Lucas to blame for that.
00:04.640: But so I was thrown into this thing.
00:04.640: And we set up in the little sort of terrace house in Richmond, Victoria, and we got going.
00:04.640: It was just infuriating.
00:04.640: Oh, here you go.
00:04.720: One of the tutorials that I'm doing is gets into some of the finessing of how to edit music.
00:04.720: I tell you, doing these interviews in Australia are a
00:04.720: And um uh but I did not have the
00:04.720: Yeah, that's right.
00:04.720: Like nobody discusses, well, you know, you got to get Premiere because look at how good the image quality looks.
00:04.720: And and it is difficult for, you know, if
00:04.720: We're coming in, so there's shows pumping through the organization.
00:04.720: And clients were starting to go, you know, we really want to have a little bit of stuff on the web, just a little bit, and we want to know what you can do.
00:04.720: Right.
00:04.720: I completely agree.
00:04.720: I never noticed that.
00:04.800: And my parents, I was actually living in Canada at the time.
00:04.800: Our special effects budget was a little bit less.
00:04.800: But it's also it's such a beautiful thing, like you're saying, to see how just trimming these couple of frames off
00:04.800: Then I could intercut.
00:04.800: I was a cameraman first, but I fell into editing at the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
00:04.800: It was just like Final Cut Pro 10 coming into their lives.
00:04.800: Another one of those seminal moments where people are like, I don't have to celebrate.
00:04.800: And so here you go.
00:04.800: And you go down and before you knew it, you were at twenty tracks before you even got started.
00:04.800: I don't understand why we can't do that.
00:04.800: Yeah.
00:04.880: The first non-linear edition was film.
00:04.880: Yeah.
00:04.880: And this was in 1991.
00:04.880: Why don't we just get a fourth edit suite?
00:04.880: It's not because I'm non-professional.
00:04.880: That is absolutely inspired editing, in my view.
00:04.880: Very cool.
00:04.880: So that was Sean Lander.
00:04.960: So I think you're going to enjoy that.
00:04.960: And you know, that's what I was alluding to was
00:04.960: You know, they've created an iPhone for what was the BlackBerry, I guess.
00:04.960: I don't tend to buy things as soon as they come out.
00:04.960: Where's my keyboard?
00:04.960: And he went, Oh, really?
00:04.960: Because as I was trying to say before, editing.
00:04.960: But I promise many more episodes to come on the Final Kite Grill.
00:05.040: We I was just having this conversation yesterday with somebody about how
00:05.040: Yeah.
00:05.040: Or the other way that we will first run into it is a producer
00:05.040: And he goes, Yeah, sure.
00:05.120: Hello, Mr.
00:05.120: Yeah, ratted out.
00:05.120: Yeah, and they're like, Yeah, don't put 13 years of history in a bin.
00:05.120: It was
00:05.120: And by persistence of vision, you mean on a large screen, my brain is looking screen right because that's where he threw the thing.
00:05.120: You have to the secret to becoming a good editor is knowing your medium, knowing your audience.
00:05.120: So I and Sean even said, Yeah, sorry, I rambled on there at the end.
00:05.200: And he goes, you don't know what that means?
00:05.200: Yep.
00:05.200: You know, those punch and crunch or clunk and things, you know, the top loaders and VO twenty six hundred.
00:05.200: Okay.
00:05.200: You know, I couldn't possibly ever be seen using that.
00:05.200: Because we have a flame, you know, yep.
00:05.200: Yep.
00:05.200: Obviously, I used to love, I had an experience editing a bit of horror, and I was doing it on the feature, and I would love
00:05.200: So you it was rednell.
00:05.280: We are, yep.
00:05.280: And yeah, yeah, why not?
00:05.280: And then we got a Cine Wave.
00:05.280: I'm dealing with a series at the moment that I'm working on, and there's often more than 24 tracks.
00:05.280: Click, click, scroll, scroll, scroll.
00:05.280: This is working.
00:05.280: But some of the things I really would like to see
00:05.360: This is where's my notes?
00:05.360: Yeah, I always say there's no such thing as the good old days in this business.
00:05.360: Okay.
00:05.360: So then that might be the case.
00:05.360: Why?
00:05.360: And here we are.
00:05.440: How would you like to join us?
00:05.440: They used to call me the Gone to the Wind, Gone of the Wind editor, you know.
00:05.440: Um, okay, so so
00:05.440: So we mortgaged our houses, sold our cars, da da da, and we got an avid.
00:05.440: Everyone that I knew, all the editors that I spoke to about that sort of hidden video, were really, really excited.
00:05.440: And they just go, I've never heard anyone say that.
00:05.440: And I thought, ooh, oh, I never heard that before.
00:05.440: The right stuff is the market.
00:05.520: There th it's those cultural crossovers that really do help.
00:05.520: I just know him as Vashi.
00:05.520: Okay.
00:05.520: Good point.
00:05.520: Uh 10 comes out.
00:05.520: Why don't you just cut it right the first time?
00:05.520: Sean, we should wrap this up.
00:05.520: Oh, it's it you know, it's great fun.
00:05.600: I can't even think.
00:05.600: You're stuck.
00:05.600: Well, that's where my bleeding edge sort of thing comes, because I'm always looking to where things are going.
00:05.600: So, of course, I'm going to look into it.
00:05.600: I can't make it any better than this.
00:05.600: So we're already like, you know, almost five months five months away.
00:05.600: Yeah.
00:05.600: Yeah.
00:05.680: Okay, daubed is Australian for told on or
00:05.680: Because that's how you did your special effects.
00:05.680: And the film was in the cartridge and it was pretty you know, it was locked in there until you sent it away to the lab and it came back as a little roll, a little spindle, and then it was yours to play with.
00:05.680: It was just that kind of government run s thing.
00:05.680: And so did you um did you get into Avid early on?
00:05.680: You know, we should keep doing this.
00:05.680: I understand that theory very well.
00:05.680: We know this industry inside and out.
00:05.680: So they were track V2 was the graphic layer.
00:05.680: And somebody along the way had said, this is how stuff is laid out.
00:05.680: And if, yes, patching.
00:05.680: And it's just about storytelling, it was just about editing, it was just about editing.
00:05.680: And it's like, well, I can afford this, so I'll buy this.
00:05.680: So you're in this full screen, sort of it takes the whole sort of screen.
00:05.760: And a lot of times when you're picking
00:05.760: 10 or X.
00:05.760: Ugh.
00:05.840: I'm going to trickle them out over a couple of months, I think.
00:05.840: Fenwick.
00:05.840: Yes.
00:05.840: And so I never, I wasn't moved like so many people to say, oh, I'm going to go get a film camera.
00:05.840: They went nuts.
00:05.840: You know, you when you edit on some systems, you get into the zone for maybe half an hour and then you're back into the click, click.
00:05.840: Oh,
00:05.840: That either a flood of
00:05.840: Yeah.
00:05.840: And it's astonishing when people won't even crack it open and take a look at it.
00:05.840: It's not about all the other
00:05.840: No.
00:05.920: He was from Australia.
00:05.920: Right, right.
00:05.920: Absolutely.
00:05.920: Star Wars.
00:05.920: I looked at the first tab, it was five, but yeah.
00:05.920: Yeah.
00:05.920: And it put me in good stead because
00:05.920: And you've got to find the best way of getting from one shot to the next.
00:05.920: I can't remember what he calls himself, but basically.
00:05.920: And also the fact that it's just dominating your view.
00:06.000: Yeah, that's okay.
00:06.000: And I guess I've always been interested in film, and the thing that's always affected me most with films that I've
00:06.000: I remember that.
00:06.000: And I said, oh, you know, this is it.
00:06.000: I think he wrote one of the manuals for Final Cut one or two or something like that.
00:06.000: If you're editing for television, if you're doing reality, imagine that you're sitting there watching it with screaming kids around you and your husband's just come home and says, what's for dinner?
00:06.000: All right, well, really appreciate your effort as well.
00:06.080: I don't know the first thing about it.
00:06.080: Right.
00:06.160: It's it's yeah, it's hard.
00:06.160: Okay.
00:06.160: And we had fifteen months to put it together together.
00:06.160: And there's your little map on the right hand side of the wall.
00:06.160: Back click scrub script.
00:06.160: And to get all that other distractions
00:06.240: And it used to say AVR75 was broadcastable.
00:06.240: That's right.
00:06.240: Yeah, that's why you have roles.
00:06.240: So what do I do from Wednesday to Friday now?
00:06.240: Just give me the XML, I'll take care of it.
00:06.240: My most favorite edit is one of the very first scenes in The Right Stuff.
00:06.240: It's just my last name, Scott Backwards.
00:06.240: I got to say, I don't normally get to talk with guys that are my own age.
00:06.320: Oh, yeah.
00:06.320: I just want to cut.
00:06.320: Yeah.
00:06.320: It actually is the best compositor compared to Avid that I've ever used.
00:06.320: What and you could give them, you know, the Sean Lander feature set that you had to see.
00:06.400: Yeah, I didn't get some imposter.
00:06.400: But it even depends on your medium.
00:06.400: So you win.
00:06.480: And I ask you from the bottom of my heart, if you have not been to their website, if you have not listened to their music, you really must as an editor
00:06.480: And that's why I wanted them to sponsor this show.
00:06.480: He's on Twitter.
00:06.480: Unless you want to re-edit from the point where you figured I need to go to that point or you want to dub down.
00:06.480: I stamps the aperture every time I you know, I I'm just so paranoid about burning those tubes.
00:06.480: Sure.
00:06.480: Oh, no, it's not even a serious
00:06.480: One, it's easy to get into.
00:06.480: It's RedNail.
00:06.480: So thanks for listening.
00:06.560: Yeah, I had a three thousand dollar a year policy for my Media One hundred.
00:06.560: 'Cause and so I started so okay, yeah.
00:06.560: Okay.
00:06.560: I thought, There we go.
00:06.560: Maybe.
00:06.560: For time.
00:06.560: I'm a little bit ahead with my interviews.
00:06.640: So I contacted Sean and I said, Hey, apparently we have to talk.
00:06.640: I go, no.
00:06.640: And it just depends on the personality of the person that was running the show.
00:06.640: And it's going to get worse when surround sound becomes the norm.
00:06.640: And he's saying, All the tracks are embedded in this one little unit.
00:06.640: That's what we do.
00:06.640: I haven't seen the right stuff in a long time.
00:06.640: It's getting late.
00:06.640: So this is a choice that we have made freely and of our own free will.
00:06.720: This isn't early.
00:06.720: Yeah.
00:06.720: And so this was delivered to our house.
00:06.720: His last name is Nedamo Nedamoshki.
00:06.720: For no money, of course.
00:06.720: Anyway, what they needed was
00:06.720: You don't need a keyboard.
00:06.720: So that's a good strong advertisement for why people should be cutting on ten because it just makes sense.
00:06.720: I'd love to be able to finish a job and just
00:06.720: Interesting.
00:06.720: And he is such an advocate for the trim tools.
00:06.800: Well, where would you like to start?
00:06.800: Yeah, funny.
00:06.800: We ended up we were three avids running full time.
00:06.800: And maybe
00:06.880: He must be so sick of these time differences.
00:06.880: That's a good hint.
00:06.880: It's not because I don't know what I'm doing.
00:06.880: Okay.
00:06.880: But frankly, you might want to just look at the app because it's quite a good tool.
00:06.880: Yeah, the same thing.
00:06.880: Yeah.
00:06.880: Very funny.
00:06.960: Right.
00:06.960: You ain't seen nothing yet.
00:06.960: And I suddenly realized I had completely changed the whole feel of the scene.
00:06.960: Well, who knows?
00:06.960: You can trim while it's reviewing.
00:06.960: I mean, I get it.
00:06.960: Just because of the persistence of vision.
00:06.960: It's awesome.
00:07.040: I'm drawing a blank.
00:07.040: And that that's why
00:07.040: You really want to see two big screens.
00:07.120: 043, episode 43.
00:07.120: Yeah, I mean, I don't I don't remember the
00:07.120: If you could afford the ticket to get into the game
00:07.120: Yeah, with a laptop.
00:07.120: So before you did every single edit, you would have to patch.
00:07.120: Because there's such a hidden community of people that have been using this.
00:07.120: Yeah.
00:07.200: And those will be on premiumbeat.
00:07.200: Yeah.
00:07.200: So, yeah, funny.
00:07.200: And they went, oh, that sounds like a good idea.
00:07.200: But really, when it came down to it, it was really just about cutting.
00:07.200: Did you sell them to ABC by any chance?
00:07.200: But really when it comes down to it, it's all about the cut.
00:07.200: So you saw Final Cut 10 in the beginning.
00:07.200: So I thought you knew what you were doing.
00:07.200: Explain try and break it down to me, somebody who hasn't used an Avid for 17 years, I think.
00:07.200: Yeah, you know what?
00:07.200: And it does and one of two things is true.
00:07.280: It's it's not it's not the end of the world.
00:07.280: And I wonder if that is some of that.
00:07.280: I don't know if you remember that.
00:07.280: And now we're talking about, oh yeah, this is not the history of broadcasting.
00:07.280: Do I have a look?
00:07.280: Is there a scene or maybe even a cut?
00:07.280: Check those two scenes out.
00:07.280: You need to go to bed.
00:07.280: Yeah.
00:07.360: Right, yeah, it's a good point.
00:07.440: And he's the one who dubbed me in.
00:07.440: Uh his name is uh
00:07.440: So it ended up on Avid.
00:07.440: And they said there were certain benefits.
00:07.440: Because I was just talking with an editor just the other day who was just infuriated that he couldn't
00:07.440: And people were just screaming about, Oh, I've lost this and I've lost that and I can't do this and I can't do that.
00:07.440: And I love Philip Hodgetts
00:07.440: They love it.
00:07.440: I was already there.
00:07.440: I completely agree.
00:07.440: We'll be back.
00:07.520: You know what?
00:07.520: I know.
00:07.520: Okay.
00:07.520: Why is that speaking bit, you know, way up there stacked up on top?
00:07.600: And a razor blade.
00:07.600: And you almost forget about that, that the visual, the quality of the visual image
00:07.600: We'd never get it done in time.
00:07.680: They're not like real people.
00:07.680: It took me a long time to figure out how to
00:07.680: It literally is on the floor.
00:07.680: One was called from
00:07.680: Oh, that's really I've never heard that before.
00:07.680: I just want to cut a story.
00:07.680: I'm not wetted to tracks at all, at all, because
00:07.680: So it was not too difficult.
00:07.680: And I love going and getting
00:07.680: I know there are third-party plugins, but I never trust them.
00:07.680: Maybe it goes very well and you can start trusting it.
00:07.680: Yeah.
00:07.680: Perfect.
00:07.760: Alistair.
00:07.760: And we thought, well, Avid is the ticket.
00:07.760: Yeah.
00:07.760: I tend to wait maybe one or two weeks.
00:07.760: But this was always, it was Hoysen Zone.
00:07.840: Before that, there was the cranky editor, Chairman Meow, James Miller.
00:07.840: It's always late somewhere.
00:07.840: I'd love to see OMF and AAF export because
00:07.840: You win.
00:07.920: How far back do you want to go?
00:07.920: Yeah.
00:07.920: And of course, eventually I learned, you know, break everything down.
00:07.920: Yeah, well, the two things that I'm trying to emphasize here is that one is editing.
00:07.920: Yeah, where they were telling you.
00:07.920: Maybe.
00:07.920: Eisenstein, sorry, saying um
00:07.920: I have a great time doing it.
00:08.000: Yeah.
00:08.000: How did that transition happen for you to get from Avid to Final Cut?
00:08.000: I'm a broadcaster.
00:08.000: And I said, we've got to sell these AVIDs.
00:08.000: Okay.
00:08.000: No disappointment.
00:08.000: What is your what is your what is your comeback to them?
00:08.000: They hate it when I say X.
00:08.000: I don't think I ever open up the Precision Editor.
00:08.080: Yeah.
00:08.080: Your whole face of it is a button.
00:08.080: And even it's going to be that short, but well.
00:08.080: Yeah.
00:08.080: You know?
00:08.080: I know you have a big day finishing up your project tomorrow.
00:08.160: It's funny because just before you came on, I'm just sitting up here watching late night television, and Wilfrid was on.
00:08.160: So many people say that.
00:08.160: I wonder, you hear stories of like great editors who.
00:08.160: We had a massive
00:08.160: And they said, well, you should be, you know so much about this, you should be teaching it.
00:08.160: Right.
00:08.160: This is where editing has to go.
00:08.160: I know we all have to do it.
00:08.240: So Beticam was obviously way, way cheaper than one inch.
00:08.240: So we formed a production company.
00:08.240: And this was just, you know, sk
00:08.240: Yeah.
00:08.240: That was that's clever.
00:08.240: And also, you know, I want you to
00:08.320: I you know, I um
00:08.320: And two optical drives with 500 gigabytes, sorry, megabytes aside.
00:08.320: Yeah.
00:08.320: I can see that there's more media over there and
00:08.400: No, I don't remember that.
00:08.400: And they actually get quite good.
00:08.400: I'd been using it for welcome to the party.
00:08.400: And actually, if you go back and you listen to the first couple episodes of this show.
00:08.400: So you
00:08.400: Okay.
00:08.400: So a cut-in action sequence for the small screen compared to the big screen is quite different.
00:08.480: I think it was made by Kodak at the time.
00:08.480: But you can just, you know
00:08.480: I said, but it's only been two days.
00:08.480: So he actually got me.
00:08.560: And
00:08.640: And then we had
00:08.640: I did this once with
00:08.640: Yeah, it really is interesting how those
00:08.640: So
00:08.640: Well, you know, I've always said, and I've had this discussion.
00:08.640: He sent me a little text message at the end and he said, Hey, sorry if I rambled on.
00:08.720: Right.
00:08.720: So obviously, half price avids was one of those things, or close to half price.
00:08.720: Because it's such a big thing.
00:08.720: Right, right.
00:08.720: That's what they usually say.
00:08.720: The parallels are uncanny.
00:08.800: I've actually done them in the middle of the night, too.
00:08.800: And yes, I have chosen to use this application.
00:08.800: I want to tell the story.
00:08.800: And you imagine yourself sitting in a cinema watching a
00:08.880: Special effects budget was limited to what we had in the garage.
00:08.880: And a razor blade.
00:08.880: And of course
00:08.880: Where the puck is going to be.
00:08.880: Okay.
00:08.880: Okay.
00:08.960: No.
00:08.960: Oh, that's crap.
00:08.960: I haven't found any hurdles.
00:09.040: We're doing really, really well.
00:09.040: Perfect.
00:09.120: THX 1138, the film that changed history.
00:09.120: Yeah.
00:09.120: Oh, really?
00:09.120: You can kind of do that in Final Cut, but it's just a bit clunky.
00:09.200: And you want to see something funny?
00:09.200: It's hysterical.
00:09.200: So
00:09.200: I'm sorry, Vashi, I should know how to pronounce your name.
00:09.200: And so I got to spend two weeks cutting film again.
00:09.200: Lightworks unfortunately won out even lost out
00:09.200: We could talk about patching for a half hour, but let's not.
00:09.200: Don't they?
00:09.200: I was going, yes.
00:09.200: And so you're go as a professional, you're going to see this influence
00:09.200: So
00:09.360: And you've got to go and find it if you want to put it back.
00:09.360: It makes perfect sense though.
00:09.360: Right.
00:09.360: I actually chose this.
00:09.360: What would you ask for?
00:09.440: No, no.
00:09.440: And you look at it and you go
00:09.440: Yeah.
00:09.440: And he goes
00:09.440: Yeah.
00:09.440: If you had that opportunity to sneak in
00:09.520: It's pretty hard, isn't it?
00:09.520: Yeah.
00:09.520: But at the primary core
00:09.520: And I think that.
00:09.520: And I would watch them watching it.
00:09.600: So let's uh let's go to our interview with uh doot doot doot, Sean Lander.
00:09.600: Okay.
00:09.600: It never, I mean, it literally took me like.
00:09.600: And then, you know, then moving on to Betacam.
00:09.600: So somewhere
00:09.600: Okay.
00:09.680: Wow.
00:09.680: So we installed the fourth edit suite and I started cutting on this thing.
00:09.680: And just move it around like a little block.
00:09.680: Just to see.
00:09.680: And literally the conversation about Final Cut Ten is already changing.
00:09.760: And it's just the way that cuts are made.
00:09.760: What was that?
00:09.760: And I thought, wow.
00:09.760: And the next one is
00:09.840: Yeah, we how many of us watch that?
00:09.840: Okay.
00:09.920: But I could show you some AVR75 that you would think, wow.
00:09.920: We all bought it that day.
00:10.000: And so when I joined the ABC, who were like Stone Age.
00:10.000: Because computers, you know, it was a quadra 950 and
00:10.000: That's why you have roles.
00:10.000: And I said, yeah, I know.
00:10.000: Okay.
00:10.080: I mean, I know you're a trainer, but you're also an editor.
00:10.080: Mover, ah, there you go, bang little do
00:10.160: com, I think, shortly.
00:10.160: Remember the good old days?
00:10.160: And yeah, so it was a baptism of fire.
00:10.160: It it really is different in that you don't have to
00:10.160: No, none whatsoever.
00:10.160: He currently works for Adobe.
00:10.240: And they realized that the only way to do this
00:10.240: I'd been forced to work on film, so I was ready for nonlinear.
00:10.240: This is before I have even made my first edit.
00:10.240: So when you would move when you would, as a freelancer, go into various post houses,
00:10.320: So you were about 10 years old when you saw Star Wars?
00:10.320: Yeah, ten layers and all that sort of stuff.
00:10.400: Not where the puck is, yes.
00:10.400: And it was
00:10.400: However,
00:10.400: Correct.
00:10.480: And I just don't like the idea of
00:10.480: Yeah.
00:10.560: I know.
00:10.560: This is Kudgrie.
00:10.560: There's beautiful cut.
00:10.560: Take care.
00:10.720: And it had been a a very tumultuous
00:10.720: Yeah.
00:10.800: You know, like it.
00:10.800: And that's why I love Apple, because they're always looking to where things are going.
00:10.880: You're looking at the outgoing and the incoming.
00:10.960: W w what was your first so like early nineties then?
00:10.960: I'm the guy because
00:10.960: And then when it finally released,
00:11.040: Either.
00:11.120: And I thought, well, this is the perfect test.
00:11.200: Oh, yeah.
00:11.200: Yeah.
00:11.200: There was something where you had to like render it down or
00:11.280: Yeah.
00:11.280: No, I do not.
00:11.280: I learnt a lot about
00:11.280: Yeah.
00:11.280: It's just.
00:11.360: It's very true.
00:11.360: Right.
00:11.360: Do you know the name Kevin Monaghan?
00:11.440: The team
00:11.440: It'll be ten times worse.
00:11.520: All your buddies down there are telling me
00:11.520: And they go, what?
00:11.600: And I was being trained by a professional.
00:11.760: Okay.
00:11.840: Did you ever blow stuff up?
00:11.840: Yeah, exactly.
00:11.840: Later, later.
00:11.920: But he's a
00:12.000: Absolutely.
00:12.160: Because
00:12.320: Now to help everybody out.
00:12.320: Feel free to cut it out if you need to.
00:12.400: But
00:12.400: Yeah.
00:12.560: No.
00:12.720: What do you say to them?
00:12.720: It's very true.
00:12.800: And I thought, wow
00:12.800: Okay.
00:12.880: Yep.
00:12.880: Do you really?
00:12.880: So
00:13.200: And I thought, well, obviously
00:13.360: And
00:13.440: You're not just a trainer.