Episode 81

FCG032 - Making Power Simpler (feat. Noam Kroll)

Noam likes to shake things ups and try something new once in a while, which frankly, makes most of us very uneasy. Recently he started taking a long hard look at the quality of the H264 files he was creating and realized that there was a difference between what he got out of FCPX and Compressor and the files he was creating with Media Encoder and the Adobe suite. Do you wanna guess which looked better? 22 and 23 of november camera workshop with color grading cinematic digital capture

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Featuring

• Chris Fenwick
• Noam Kroll - @noamkroll

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Transcription

00:00.001: Are you kidding?

00:00.001: I've got a number of different bundles that all give those three different variants.

00:00.001: but leave comments about the show and give it some stars and that helps other people find the show.

00:00.080: Be in a different headspace while I was editing, and you know, it was just an exercise.

00:00.080: You want to use DaVinci, you open up your Final Cut project file in there and it comes in exactly.

00:00.160: And I want to make you guys the producers of this show.

00:00.160: And it's very searchable.

00:00.160: Checking out your blog and reading your articles and stuff.

00:00.160: Well, before we get to the article, I want to talk to you just a little bit about your work.

00:00.160: I'm guessing a lot of people have probably already read it.

00:00.160: You know, not even necessarily just filmmakers, but you know, any sort of artist, majority of them typically, you know, seem to work better on their own terms, but you know, there's definitely exceptions to that rule.

00:00.160: You know, I'm sure a lot of people still, you know, benefit from the traditional approach as well.

00:00.160: I felt that more, to be honest, before I moved to LA because I've only been here a couple of years now.

00:00.160: You know, that was always the one component I felt like, yeah, that would have been cool if I sort of had that experience.

00:00.160: Yeah, this is for the old guys out there.

00:00.160: Love Final Cut 10.

00:00.160: You know, why is that?

00:00.160: I'll do my coloring, I'll render to ProRes HQ, bring that back into Final Cut 10, and then I'll lay out my master from there because typically I'm adding titles or

00:00.160: And you can lose it right there.

00:00.160: These camera tests, and am I going to get this extra tiny bit of dynamic range from the shot?

00:00.160: But I was talking with John Davidson also down there in your neighborhood, and we were talking about WMV compressions.

00:00.160: And you know, it's pretty good.

00:00.160: That's why it's so refreshing to just hear from an audience perspective and watch them connect to things and see what they react to and what they don't.

00:00.160: it's the little nuances and just those t final little touches on the dashboard or whatever it is that make it feel like it's the better machine.

00:00.160: Yeah, I've said many times that whether or not we want to admit it or not, everybody that watches the videos that I make is a professional television viewer.

00:00.160: You know, writers and filmmakers, and I've definitely fallen into this trap, you know, in my earlier years many times myself, but you know, just forced exposition or too much information or hand-holding during the storytelling process.

00:00.160: The fact of the matter is audiences have seen whatever story you're going to tell in some variation probably many times and they get it.

00:00.160: I went to export my file.

00:00.160: In the export window, you have an option to either choose MOV and then select H.

00:00.160: Pro also at 12 Core.

00:00.160: The original frame twice.

00:00.160: They have their Broadcast Master in 1080, and then they've got their web version as well.

00:00.160: I don't have to go through that process every single time.

00:00.160: Final cut really hides things from you.

00:00.160: But she was having this conversation.

00:00.160: In inferior software?

00:00.160: Are a little bit crazy.

00:00.160: I worked with a guy with Final Cut 10 last week and he did it in like 15 minutes.

00:00.160: And they're cutting in Final Cut 10.

00:00.160: Premiere and it was all shot on red.

00:00.160: I love that.

00:00.160: Hands-on, intuitive way to add text or add imagery.

00:00.160: You don't have to worry that, oh, did I just overwrite something?

00:00.160: You know, there was a tweet this morning from Peter Wiggins, and it was the five stages of learning Final Cut Pro 10.

00:00.160: you know, they're still trying to use it.

00:00.160: it's not the same market anymore.

00:00.160: Like you or I, that does enjoy the change and enjoy the innovation, even if it comes with a bit of a learning curve.

00:00.160: The bottom line is people aren't going to be cutting this way in ten years.

00:00.160: I don't want anybody to think, I don't want anybody to accuse me of just being like a sadist who wants to throw out the baby in the bathwater every few years and just learn a new piece of software for the sake of learning a new piece of software.

00:00.160: workflow and software.

00:00.160: you know the ability to adapt to new things new technology that's going to be one of the the biggest things if i'm hiring somebody for my company

00:00.160: Whether it's a shooter, editor, whoever, one of the number one things that I would look for is their willingness to learn and their ability to learn new technology because

00:00.160: Yeah, if all I had were the skills that I learned in college when I was dropping out the second time and and again, to wrap this up, go back to the beginning, that Sony M3A and the BP sixty batteries.

00:00.160: Anyway, last question I want to ask you, Noam, and I want to let you go because I'm sure you have a life.

00:00.160: You know, that way I could select everything I want, create a compound clip, and add something to it.

00:00.160: People didn't know what to expect, and they were thinking it was going to be something that it wasn't, you know, and they didn't give it the chance to see what it actually was.

00:00.160: That's great, but you know, if you need, if you need that more classic workflow, there's always going to be a lightroom.

00:00.160: But yeah, I mean, there's always going to be options.

00:00.160: Well, Gnome Kroll, thank you so much for your time.

00:00.160: If anyone's interested, check out my website and everything's on there.

00:00.160: I'm holding a two-day workshop where we're going to cover color grading and stuff like that, but primarily focus on a cinematic style digital cinema capture.

00:00.160: Signal path is a term that we used to use when we put things across cable.

00:00.160: That stuff goes through the feed and then I it kinda gets lost back in the ether there.

00:00.240: And I'm not that good at it.

00:00.240: You got to learn a little bit of stuff between, you know, iTunes and your blog and some place to store the files.

00:00.240: And because Gnome had written this article about um compression and how H.

00:00.240: tries to be, you know, an outlet for frustrated rockers, and there's these ridiculous guitar solos and they just stuff that doesn't belong underneath my, you know, my work.

00:00.240: So, anyway, I love the way they curate the songs and the music, and it's very editable and stretchable and shortenable, and it's just I don't even know if some of those words are real words.

00:00.240: But anyway, I love Premium Beat, and I encourage you to go check them out.

00:00.240: to shop and most importantly, to try out plugins.

00:00.240: And recently he had a very interesting discovery when he was looking at some of his exports from a certain application very critically.

00:00.240: you know, different people do different things.

00:00.240: Oh, yeah, they're so good.

00:00.240: and I handle a lot of production in post work.

00:00.240: Messing around, and you know, I had the original iMac when I was a teenager, and just sort of playing with Premiere and Final Cut in the early days.

00:00.240: you know, started taking it a little bit more seriously, and that was that.

00:00.240: Parameters of more of a structured setup, but I would say the majority of creative professionals, whether they're

00:00.240: Oh yeah.

00:00.240: there's no question that there's such an access.

00:00.240: Few years, you know, and it's a very sort of transient place.

00:00.240: You know, he's been doing very well, but um but I always thought that, or I've always sort of, I don't know, imagined in my mind that that probably the best thing you get out of film school

00:00.240: a lot of people, the biggest benefit from film school is you have all these great friends and five years down the road, everyone's working and actually making money and can help each other out.

00:00.240: But yeah, I mean, I I do find, though, I've worked with a couple of really great directors and producers who are sort of younger and still working with people that they went to film school with.

00:00.240: And so I wanted to make music videos, so I went to the local college and I took video production.

00:00.240: We're not going to make any cool music videos next class, are we?

00:00.240: Yeah, I mean, I think the thing is, you know, if you're going to go in, you have to do it with the intention that, you know, I want to get access to a lot of gear for very little cost.

00:00.240: And maybe you get lucky, you have some really great teachers, maybe you don't.

00:00.240: And definitely, like you said, you really have to decide early on which path you want to take because there are an infinite amount of ways that you could try to break in here.

00:00.240: But tell me how you decide what you cut on and what your workflow is.

00:00.240: sort of discrepancy about it.

00:00.240: it is just lightning fast when it comes to skimming through the footage, processing everything, the offline, online workflow, all that stuff.

00:00.240: So in terms of finishing, I typically use DaVinci Resolve to color.

00:00.240: Yeah, I like what you said in your article that it's that final stage that really is like the make or brick for your piece.

00:00.240: Often, I just use the master file option right within Final Cut 10 because it's great, and I'm usually going straight to ProRes HQ.

00:00.240: a show that needs like a PAL conversion or any sort of broadcast deliverable, and I want to be extra careful, I'll definitely run it through a compressor, you know, just because obviously you've got a lot more control over fine-tuning everything in there.

00:00.240: was from showing it online.

00:00.240: You just want to put the best version of your work in front of somebody, whether they're watching it on a phone or in a theater.

00:00.240: You know, in interesting parallel to this discussion, a few months ago or weeks ago, I can't tell.

00:00.240: You know, because I'm dealing with a lot of corporate America and they still have this, you know, this belief that that's the only thing anybody can watch.

00:00.240: But he was saying, he goes, Oh, yeah, I just use any video converter HD.

00:00.240: Was compressed better and does look better, they won't realize, you know, to the average person that doesn't know anything about compression or filmmaking, they're not going to know why they like something better, but they will feel that it, you know.

00:00.240: And you know what?

00:00.240: It's like watching you know, I always I actually prefer to get reactions if I'm watching a film, whether it's my own or someone else's or whatever.

00:00.240: Touching scene, and they're like, hey, dude, what lens was that?

00:00.240: That's why I focus so much on that because it's all in the details.

00:00.240: what a multi million dollar pr production looks like because they flip they flip by them all the time on their Ti vo at home.

00:00.240: If you want to be taken seriously, and nobody's going to look at it and go, Yeah, the depth of field is wrong on that.

00:00.240: Absolutely, they'll sense it somehow, and that applies not only to the technical, but the story as well.

00:00.240: Exactly.

00:00.240: But, you know, I for example, a short I cut a while ago, I just didn't want to cut in final cut because I wanted to get out of my comfort zone a little.

00:00.240: from that ProRes, and it was fine.

00:00.240: uh media composer uh or sorry um media encoder and premiere and all of them gave me

00:00.240: Pretty much the same result with just some marginal differences.

00:00.240: So the only time I had a slightly better result with Premiere was in the export window.

00:00.240: Is definitely an oversight because, you know, again, I had so many people writing to me and saying, you know, well, you could, you know, you just have to

00:00.240: I did.

00:00.240: Maybe four weeks or so because I don't think I've done an update since then.

00:00.240: bring that into Median Coder because it was faster, at least at the time.

00:00.240: The thing that I was going to say is that in Media Encoder 2014, and actually CC also, and this could be an interesting thing for you, right smack dab in the center of the user interface, at the bottom of the queue.

00:00.240: when I use the OpenCL.

00:00.240: No help, really.

00:00.240: Just in my, you know, while I had one running, I was running my other computer.

00:00.240: you know, there are so many variables, and this was really just meant to be a quick test.

00:00.240: And I tried this as an experiment, and I don't normally do this.

00:00.240: the output module and Command D, and you'll get you can actually do two compressions from one frame read simultaneously.

00:00.240: Oh, that's awesome.

00:00.240: How in Final Kat 10 you can set up a bundle.

00:00.240: So often what I'll do more and more these days, surprisingly, people are asking for 4K masters, even if they can't use them.

00:00.240: One is a 4K ProRes Master, the other is a 1080 ProRes Master, and the third is an H.

00:00.240: It's like I find something else or I learn something else, or sometimes I'm just reminded about something else.

00:00.240: who reminded me of that.

00:00.240: Well, you know, yeah, that's the thing is I'm still discovering I I use it day in and day out for the most part, but I'm still discovering like all sorts of little things within Final Cut.

00:00.240: I've had so you know, I find it hard to work in an it's like working in an office that's messy and there's you know stuff thrown all over the place.

00:00.240: I got past the point a couple years ago where I used to fight with people and try to tell them this is, you know, this is going to eventually catch on and blah, blah, blah.

00:00.240: I like working in a clean interface.

00:00.240: One of the big reasons I love Final Cut 10 is because it looks nice.

00:00.240: That's just me maybe, but it the UI definitely does have an effect on sort of how I work and how long I can engage with the software.

00:00.240: The naysayers who say, Well, look, it looks like iMovie.

00:00.240: All I care about is I like it, I enjoy it, I get my work done faster.

00:00.240: You know, I really don't think that yeah, people I think at this point they could they could make it they could add any feature, they could make it

00:00.240: You know, add tracks back, they could do whatever.

00:00.240: Because at the end of the day, a good producer is all about the bottom line.

00:00.240: your work is better or more professional.

00:00.240: But at the end of the day, if I have a film to cut, I could if I had to, I could use iMovie, I could use Windows Movie Maker.

00:00.240: you know, put into this.

00:00.240: Although we talked at the beginning of this conversation about the fact that there's so many people that are still just not coming around to it, which is very true.

00:00.240: you know, they're not afraid of it, but someone who's never made their first film doesn't want to use it.

00:00.240: there are more and more and more Final Cut 10 jobs every day.

00:00.240: And now pretty much all of them know Final Cut 10 because they have to.

00:00.240: or whatever it may be, there's plenty of work on Final Cut 10.

00:00.240: You know, all sorts of stuff I've done.

00:00.240: It is being used, but I think the guys that are enjoying using it and benefiting from it, they're not the ones screaming the loudest, and the ones that are working and having fun, yeah.

00:00.240: Just again, that only from my subjective experience on it.

00:00.240: you know, to kind of push them over the edge.

00:00.240: It's the best.

00:00.240: You know, I realized the hard way that eventually this red footage is going to have to get compressed.

00:00.240: If I want to see if a cert you know, a certain shot's gonna work.

00:00.240: Briefly, to know if it's a usable clip or not, I can do that and then I can flip back and use the proxies.

00:00.240: Just like any other footage in Final Cut 10, you import the raw file from the red camera, and you have the option to

00:00.240: Automatically generate a proxy file.

00:00.240: Very intuitive way to work.

00:00.240: love it and that's a great tool as well.

00:00.240: what a producer is going to want because I'm editing remotely and I'm like, eh, I don't know, he might like this.

00:00.240: you know if if you just sort of embrace it that's the best thing about final cut it's you know i can cut something if it's not working i can you know

00:00.240: Grab a bunch of the clips and throw them somewhere else on the timeline.

00:00.240: And I like, again, another thing that I've said sort of in some of my Final Cut articles, but I like technology that just gets out of the way.

00:00.240: And I think that sort of notion carries over just to the magnetic timeline as a whole.

00:00.240: It takes so long, but there's something in it that keeps people trying.

00:00.240: At that point, you know, it was final cut or it was ABID, and most indie guys are on final cut.

00:00.240: You know, if you tell someone you're using a software that they're not familiar with, they're not as I've found this at least, that they're not as scared and not as sort of taken aback as they once were before.

00:00.240: Where there's, it's kind of like the honeymoon stage, where it's like, oh, this is really great.

00:00.240: We talked about how there was this renewed excitement.

00:00.240: Really?

00:00.240: 8% of what I do is, you know, corporate communications stuff and events and things like that.

00:00.240: you know, it was before.

00:00.240: From the software that I learned on my iMac all those years ago.

00:00.240: You know, if there's one that's probably going to be closer to that, I would put my money on Final Cut 10 because it is more intuitive and it's, it's, you know, there has been more forward thinking, I feel, put into the fundamental

00:00.240: construct of the software, even if it doesn't gel with everybody.

00:00.240: But I said if there's nothing else that this does, it will shake things up.

00:00.240: raw digital cinema footage like that on your laptop.

00:00.240: But it doesn't matter because now it's telling other manufacturers, look what we can do for very little money.

00:00.240: all of these things that you're telling your customers you can't do or they have to pay twenty grand for, and we're doing it for less.

00:00.240: In a way, you know, Red Workflow that a 10-year-old or a six-year-old could probably learn.

00:00.240: Thanks to you, Gnome, now I know that I'm actually getting a better quality image out of this tool as opposed to the predominant alternative right now.

00:00.240: Totally, and I agree too.

00:00.240: that's only going to increase.

00:00.240: It's not the case at all.

00:00.240: and being able to actually mix those roles down with some sort of like an in app mixer that you could use, those sort of things would be great because

00:00.240: Like I said, right now, I've actually had really incredible results editing audio in Final Cut 10.

00:00.240: with some sort of, you know, color coded rolls or something like that and run that through some sort of you know built-in mixer.

00:00.240: is dealing with the the audio department, because I know that's been a big complaint by a lot of even a long time Final Cut ten users.

00:00.240: about being it would be great if I could just apply a filter or a plug in or a compressor or an EQ to one whole audio roll at once.

00:00.240: Yeah, I mean, that would certainly be amazing.

00:00.240: If they just added a couple of small tweaks, I mean, it could be a powerhouse.

00:00.240: Exactly.

00:00.240: You know, I need a keyframe and I can't do that.

00:00.240: There's some great plugins.

00:00.240: is not they can't create a PSD file, I think that's going to be true of editing software, you know, or at least I hope it would, you know.

00:00.240: Exactly.

00:00.240: And I really believe that the sort of aperture photos transition is sort of the same as Final Cut Classic to Final Cut X.

00:00.240: if you could do the same the exact same processing in a simpler app, then why would you want anything but that if it makes your life easier, right?

00:00.240: I mean, I'm looking forward to that personally.

00:00.240: You know, one of them do it differently and at least have a choice, you know, and choose the right tool for the right job, as we all say.

00:00.240: come out with the Apple product looking better.

00:00.240: and immediately my eye went to one, and I wasn't sure why.

00:00.240: Compression first, and oh no, no, I started the Apple one first, and then I started the media encoder, and the Apple kick out from the timeline was going, Oh, yeah, this is gonna take just a couple of minutes here, and then and then the media encoder kicked in.

00:00.240: You know, we're always trying to find good, interesting people.

00:00.320: With with a special guest.

00:00.320: You can hear.

00:00.320: You know?

00:00.320: It's great.

00:00.320: Before we get started, happy Monday, I believe this is.

00:00.320: ecosystem for getting plugins for Final Cut 10.

00:00.320: you know, an input device.

00:00.320: into their Mac.

00:00.320: Kind of divided in half.

00:00.320: On a huge range of projects.

00:00.320: Constantly changing and evolving.

00:00.320: Yeah, I used to be on a podcast with Carl Olson called the Digital Convergence Podcast.

00:00.320: It is to be part of that community of people that graduated with you.

00:00.320: But but yeah, I I don't know.

00:00.320: You know, I'm creating them too.

00:00.320: You know, there's, as is the case, there are a million ways to get into this business.

00:00.320: You're going to be climbing a ladder.

00:00.320: And you know, I've I've never even really watched T V, to be honest, let alone wanted to make it.

00:00.320: you know, be the option at the time.

00:00.320: Anyway, so let's see.

00:00.320: Actually, again, before we get to the article, now what is your workflow when it comes to your editorial process typically?

00:00.320: And they're almost floored when I show them what it's capable of and they want to use it.

00:00.320: all of this crazy stuff, and then we get to that, you know, and we we you know, we finesse it in the edit and then we color it in our resolve, and then you hit that last button.

00:00.320: Yeah, and it exactly.

00:00.320: Yeah, exactly.

00:00.320: Festivals and I've had films play online.

00:00.320: you know, the new black trash can 12 core.

00:00.320: I said, well, how does it look?

00:00.320: And I did, you know, I did my current workflow, which is slower and two steps, and his workflow.

00:00.320: You've got to think about this stuff.

00:00.320: It looks fine, but does it feel fine to them?

00:00.320: When you started looking at your Premiere Pro exports and your Final Cut 10 exports?

00:00.320: Sometimes I'll use Premiere Pro just to shake things up on my own projects.

00:00.320: Well, what were the exact settings you used and blah, blah, blah.

00:00.320: Settings to the T, but I just haven't had time to because I've been so busy and working on a film project.

00:00.320: Then you took that into well, first you t you did you kicked H.

00:00.320: Yes.

00:00.320: Exactly.

00:00.320: And I tried that with a shot.

00:00.320: online, you know, right now.

00:00.320: let's say I'm using ProRes 422 and it's DSLR footage, so I don't really need anything more than that.

00:00.320: Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.

00:00.320: I can't even remember what it was, but there was like five or six different videos that we had to cut in five or six different days.

00:00.320: 640 by 360 H264 and a 1280 by 720 for whatever reason.

00:00.320: In the encoding window, you'll see both of them side by side.

00:00.320: So anyway, so I'll have three different settings.

00:00.320: you know, guys like me and you that are using it, at least we've got a little bit of a head start.

00:00.320: It was some younger kids, kids, I don't know.

00:00.320: But they said something about I can't actually I can't remember who brought it up, but she said Final Cut ten came up and they go, well that that's not professional.

00:00.320: Through the work that I've done, she gets it.

00:00.320: Then they don't care what you're cutting on.

00:00.320: that with an influx of new talent, what they have accessible to them is what will end up being used.

00:00.320: Alex does a lot of color grading for music videos.

00:00.320: And I was over in their original programming department.

00:00.320: there is more and more adoption of Final Cut than there has been from my experience at least.

00:00.320: And it sounds like I'm bashing Premiere, but I actually really like Premiere too.

00:00.320: Well, I guess skipping ahead to now and what I do in Final Cut and how I'd learn from that, I love having access to the native raw footage from the Red because

00:00.320: Looking at the imagery, listening to the audio.

00:00.320: Now the re at that point, obviously, there's more of a stigma around this new software because the market was different.

00:00.320: You know, we are one or whatever it is.

00:00.320: Sam Mestman was on, and basically all we talked about was Red Workflow.

00:00.320: Everything that we're using is going to be outdated tomorrow.

00:00.320: I can do it more efficiently.

00:00.320: send to logic or something like that.

00:00.320: Oh, yeah.

00:00.320: And, you know, like I said, I use DaVinci Resolve all the time, but the tools are really powerful built into Final Cut 10.

00:00.320: Exactly, yeah, because people don't like the board.

00:00.320: A lot of times the only reason that I'm actually going to DaVinci on quick turnaround projects is because I need to track a window or I have a vignette and I

00:00.320: software, I just believe, will become more integrated with each other from more of a fundamental level.

00:00.320: And what is fantastic, having the ability to do that in Final Cut, it's the exact same thing I was touching on with color, is whenever you can save yourself the extra step of leaving that workflow, then

00:00.320: We look at just even what you can do on an iPhone or something like that, you know, with iMovie on the on your iPhone.

00:00.320: And this year.

00:00.320: reacted to a prerelease of Final Khat Ten had we actually known what was coming, and they've actually shown us what's coming.

00:00.320: Absolutely.

00:00.320: Well, you can get to my blog, NoamCroll.

00:00.320: Excellent.

00:00.320: close eyes to take a look at it.

00:00.320: Absolutely took over my machine.

00:00.320: And please go to iTunes and leave your comments and your suggestions or suggestions.

00:00.320: using a a preset that's in there.

00:00.400: In the process.

00:00.400: So now we're going to go to the interview with Noam Kroll.

00:00.400: I don't know.

00:00.400: You know, worrying about what camera and what filters, and you know, the what's that thing, the clear one, you know, the whatever, all the stuff in front of the lens.

00:00.400: It does the whole thing in a fraction of real time.

00:00.400: you know, just fundamentally important to remember whether it's applying to the technical or the creative or whatever aspect of the process.

00:00.400: When I posted this article on my site, I got a lot of feedback from people saying, like good, good feedback, where people said, okay, this is great.

00:00.400: That for some reason did give me a slightly better result.

00:00.400: It's an art form of compression and this and that.

00:00.400: Yeah, Creative Cloud.

00:00.400: is a window, a pull-down called renderer.

00:00.400: Yeah, you know, it also works against you, though, too.

00:00.400: And when showing them the software, they really like it.

00:00.400: not like the software and it's totally valid.

00:00.400: it's like buying a red camera before you've ever used an interchangeable lens DSLR and just wanting to feel like because you have a certain tool or you talk a certain way or you think a certain way that

00:00.400: Like I said before, on the high end, a lot of people are.

00:00.400: Hang on, dot, dot, dot.

00:00.400: Hmm.

00:00.400: Hold on, I've got to search for it.

00:00.400: Yes.

00:00.400: that is going to be the next thing that slowly over the years, I would again, if I had to guess, I would say that's what's going to start to disappear because

00:00.400: Photos, which is the new photo organizing tool for Apple, which is they've killed Aperture

00:00.400: In a much more simplified user interface.

00:00.400: So that's it for this episode of The Grill.

00:00.480: and also for making a great website to find great music that editors can edit to.

00:00.480: You're going to hear me, I believe.

00:00.480: So, being on that website, what's it do for your blog traffic?

00:00.480: Article has actually been around for a while and it's been getting a ton of traffic and plugged on a bunch of other sites.

00:00.480: When I wanted to make music videos, 'cause it was the early 80s, and that was cool then, and MTV actually played them.

00:00.480: has been splattered about on various blogs and recently on No Film School.

00:00.480: Something, some other sort of very final finishing element, credits or whatever it may be, back in Final Cut.

00:00.480: But because I always kick out those big Texas masters, take them through Media Encoder and I do all my deliverables from there, whether it's six forties or seven twenties, ten eighties, whatever.

00:00.480: Going to the irony of sort of what I'm doing now is that I used to do the opposite.

00:00.480: side of the deal.

00:00.480: But I got to say, and this was also on the Twelve Core machine, they were smoking fast.

00:00.480: Obviously, it's going to do a lot that Final Cut can't, but if I'm just adding titles or something, I no longer feel like I need to do that.

00:00.480: Yeah, you're slowly converting everybody.

00:00.480: To have something that like genuinely thrills you.

00:00.480: And I'm kind of sitting here thinking, God, I might want to have Sam back on and just do a refresh of the red workflow because it is a big thing.

00:00.480: If nothing else, hopefully.

00:00.480: On there.

00:00.560: Consider starting a podcast.

00:00.560: come across short films.

00:00.560: Always fascinating to me how much they pick up on, considering they know nothing.

00:00.560: But I do know that I've been compressing files both for personal projects and professionally for years, and I've never seen that much of a discrepancy when I was using the exact same setting.

00:00.560: The truth is, I don't want to have to go over and over and over every time.

00:00.560: for DaVinci Resolve.

00:00.560: you can actually create a bundle where you can drag multiple compressor settings into it.

00:00.560: Rather than using nested clips, you know, I like using compound or nested sequences.

00:00.560: When Final Cut 7 first well, when they canceled it, when they discontinued the product

00:00.560: I was at that stage that there's always a thing where whether it's a new camera or a new piece of gear or software

00:00.560: Yeah, no, it's it's when I started this show last November, it really was a byproduct of the fact that I enjoyed talking to people about Final Cut Pro.

00:00.560: You gotta make me this one feature, this one button knob, whatever it is.

00:00.560: I've had some great results working with audio and Final Cut, but that is what I still feel needs the most work.

00:00.640: I decided to render just a Pro ResMaster, which I did.

00:00.640: And I was using it without the OpenCL, which which OpenCL is going to utilize your graphics card to make things go faster.

00:00.640: But from my experience with it, it was still not quite at the same level.

00:00.640: And then when you hit go, it's going to kick them out.

00:00.640: When I get a project, I so many projects now are cut in 4K or 5K on red epic footage, and usually those things are going to broadcast.

00:00.640: Virtually every screenshot has the most simple iteration of the window arrangement that you can have.

00:00.640: from my experience, the people that really don't like Final Cut are the ones that are right sort of in the middle.

00:00.640: We're doing this we're doing this parody again.

00:00.640: Various corporate themes recycle.

00:00.640: If nothing else, what I love, and I said this from the beginning, even when I was a little bit skeptical, I started using it right away, but I was to some degree skeptical right off the bat when they released it.

00:00.640: change over the last few decades and how steep that curve is becoming now, that's just going to keep going exponentially.

00:00.640: What's it called?

00:00.640: You know, basically, you can make people look 10 years younger pretty easily.

00:00.640: your $300 edit system.

00:00.720: That's the one I'm writing right now, actually.

00:00.720: And it was not enabled on there.

00:00.720: And really, I've worked with some producers that have been extremely, like really great producers, some of the best guys I've worked with who are very accomplished.

00:00.720: Various editors will eventually be pushed, encouraged, cajoled into using Final Cut 10.

00:00.720: Peter, this is for you.

00:00.720: Time is so important these days and projects need to get turned around quicker and quicker.

00:00.800: So tell me a little bit about the work that you do and how you got into this business.

00:00.800: And I think that's really especially these days with the access to amazing content online from websites like No Film School or other bloggers or people that are putting all this stuff out there.

00:00.800: So I and I guess the one question and I realize you don't have it at all memorized, but I think you'll know this one.

00:00.800: The one prior.

00:00.800: Well, if it's a few weeks, it's probably twenty fourteen.

00:00.800: That's one of the biggest features that I would show somebody.

00:00.800: I'm going to segue into a little bit of a plug now that we're talking about color and finishing and stuff.

00:00.800: Sheffield Softworks Makeup Artist, and it is a cool little glamour beauty tool.

00:00.800: one reason or another and for archival purposes and this and that.

00:00.880: But yeah.

00:00.880: And they say, Well, it's not professional.

00:00.880: Ship hit hits iceberg, boy dies, woman lives, woman old woman throws ring into the ocean.

00:00.880: Okay.

00:00.880: But yeah, I loved it.

00:00.960: And I got to say, you know, several months ago, I kind of put out a call, if you will, a challenge to the listeners of this show.

00:00.960: Was it the source footage?

00:00.960: I call those Texas Masters.

00:00.960: Didn't like it.

00:00.960: After, just to test for myself, I just brought individual clips into both.

00:00.960: The old guys are going to have producers coming to them saying, Well, I don't understand.

00:00.960: But integrating a better system for tagging roles on your different audio clips.

00:00.960: Yes, absolutely.

00:00.960: And XML files and EDL files and all of our translation data that we're using to get from one software to another, I think

00:00.960: Thanks again.

00:01.040: I mean, I got the window open because it's a hot night, and you know, it's not like I'm in some fancy studio here or anything.

00:01.040: So, anyway, the lead came from the listeners, and the interview was awesome, and you're going to hear that next.

00:01.040: Yeah, a lot of times if I have a quick turnaround job, I really well, I like to use Final Cut 10 regardless, but especially on a quick turnaround job because

00:01.040: So many of them, I think a lot of other software, like I guess Avid is a perfect example of this where they have a button for everything, and that's good for some people.

00:01.120: 90% of the people, maybe 95% or 98% of the people, go, oh, yeah, that's fine.

00:01.120: But again, I mean, not to say there's not valid reasons not to want to use it, but more often than not, the reasons that I hear are

00:01.120: I've never used any other system.

00:01.120: I mean, that would be incredible.

00:01.200: And yes, that was a good idea.

00:01.200: No, I've never done that.

00:01.200: Stage two is, I hate it.

00:01.200: Wow, that's a great question.

00:01.280: And I always end up walking off stepping away from the mic.

00:01.280: Like you can filter it down to say, I only want to see the stuff that works for this or whatever.

00:01.280: So that's great.

00:01.280: You know, it's just if you don't like it, don't use it and just put that effort into doing something good, you know, and make making a real project.

00:01.280: I mean, it goes without saying that you have to make a living, you have to have some sort of predictability with the tools that you're using.

00:01.280: Sort of like the EDL in the UI on the bottom left side.

00:01.280: And that's I I've said it exactly the same before, that people the biggest issue with Final Cut was that

00:01.360: It's been such a pleasure doing this show, talking to so many different people.

00:01.360: I found that level of excitement.

00:01.360: Yes.

00:01.360: The final cut timeline.

00:01.440: So I do want to I want to talk about your demo reel because I was very impressed by that.

00:01.440: And not only that, it's a great way to manage your plugins.

00:01.440: The other thing too, in November, on the 22nd and 23rd, I'm actually holding a for anyone that's listening that it lives in LA and does camera stuff as well.

00:01.520: A lot of what I do is my own personal projects.

00:01.520: A lot of people obviously have, you know, it's taken a long time for everyone to sort of come around to it.

00:01.520: But that's where people are actually viewing the films.

00:01.520: He goes, oh, it looks great.

00:01.520: She heard these guys go off on, oh, it's not professional.

00:01.600: Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, whatever it is.

00:01.600: And it's a lot of fun.

00:01.600: You know, you can you can drop a file on it and it's very fast.

00:01.600: Right.

00:01.600: Well, actually, in this case, they're canceling Lightroom.

00:01.680: And basically, what I said is, and I'm borrowing a technique or a strategy from Adam Curry and John Dvorak.

00:01.680: I'm going to make a fool of myself.

00:01.680: No, because it'll take me longer, it'll be less efficient.

00:01.680: Oh yeah, absolutely.

00:01.680: I'm literally looking at this software and the work that I do and realizing I can do it faster

00:01.680: Media encoder, which I've always said I love media encoder.

00:01.760: But it's just a great I I'm going to start.

00:01.760: And the tiniest adjustment feels like it's changing a lot.

00:01.760: Take care.

00:01.840: I did it again with an old ProRes master of another film of mine.

00:01.840: So he's like, Can you color this?

00:01.840: I've edited two feature films, one of which was actually just a polish, someone else edited in Final Cut 10.

00:01.840: And I got to say that since I recorded the interview, I took one of the pieces that I worked on the next day and I took it through the two separate signal paths.

00:01.920: Yeah, Gnome, you don't know what a Sony M3A and a BP60 is.

00:01.920: But but yeah, for me, I mean, assuming I'm using I think it's a stigma.

00:01.920: I look at the file and it just didn't look good.

00:01.920: OpenCL.

00:01.920: You ask the average editor what they use and you can't guess anymore.

00:02.000: It it was somebody pointed out to me that you can use like an H four N as an audio interface.

00:02.000: Just do yourself a favor, do a little research, and start climbing the right ladder.

00:02.000: Was it the latest twenty fourteen or were you still on just the CC?

00:02.000: But at the end of the day, the least of my worries these days is the software that I cut on.

00:02.000: I think that there's something to be said about having some sort of reliable and consistent

00:02.000: Good job, Chris.

00:02.080: But yeah, so is this cool for you?

00:02.080: I mean, i this is just my subjective experience, but moving to LA, um a lot of the people that I'd met here had moved here in the last

00:02.080: I've proudly hired many of them.

00:02.080: And I'm sure we probably shared a similar experience afterwards, feeling like I did mine 20 years before you.

00:02.080: I mean, you hit it on the head, and that's what I was trying to touch on in the article.

00:02.080: I just I just don't you know, it just sort of held me back from wanting to use Premiere because I just you know, that's a big red flag for me in my situation.

00:02.080: So far, and I feel bad now, but I have always said, no, I like Media Encoder, and now I want to start looking at it more carefully.

00:02.080: So I've really beefed up the graphics cards and all that stuff.

00:02.080: That's right.

00:02.080: One of the other articles I wrote on Final Cut way back was that, you know, I was saying, as trivial as this may sound, I actually.

00:02.080: And there's other things too.

00:02.160: And I got to say, I have really enjoyed all the people that I've gotten speak with, spoke with, yeah.

00:02.160: So to answer your other question, though, how I got into this, just sort of always been doing it since I was a kid.

00:02.160: And people don't realize that.

00:02.160: So you're getting way, way, way more people having their eyes on it.

00:02.160: And I can tell you that typically I do use OpenCL on my main system, which is a Mac

00:02.160: You know, it's interesting that this is coming up now because just about probably two, three, four weeks ago, I had a client come in and we had

00:02.160: It's the older one.

00:02.160: On the last episode of the show, I spoke with Peter Wiggins, and we got into the discussion about how

00:02.160: And stage five is, oh my god, I love this.

00:02.160: And there's a reason for that, whether it's because they're not satisfied with the other software they're using or you know somehow their brain is telling them there's something good in there.

00:02.160: I've been a huge proponent for years about please just give me better tools so I don't have to leave my edit system.

00:02.240: But I guess, you know, I just didn't want to try to mess with the settings too much right now while you're waiting there.

00:02.240: I'm working on developing a feature now.

00:02.240: Was it something in the grade?

00:02.240: If you're not willing to sort of adapt to those things, then there's going to be problems, especially down the line.

00:02.320: So you sort of have to know what you want to do or what you want to look for.

00:02.320: The titling system, I mean, the fact that you can drop, you know, your titles on, it's just a very

00:02.400: But I'm typically pretty up to date.

00:02.400: It accesses it once, and then it says, Okay, here it is at 640, here it is at 1280.

00:02.400: I can work in the workgroup that I work in, which is four systems all tied together better.

00:02.400: You know, there's no ability to do that right now in Final Cut 10.

00:02.480: Yeah, I've got an H6 too, but unfortunately, it's not here right now.

00:02.480: So you're obviously too busy to talk to me for too long.

00:02.480: And it's nice to get a couple more people from that community over too, which is great.

00:02.480: Oh, yeah.

00:02.480: I know these aren't scientific tests, I should have done it on the same machine, and all the rest of it, but

00:02.480: People still just aren't going to want to even look at it.

00:02.480: Hashtag W Day.

00:02.480: So you, you know, ProRes proxy.

00:02.480: Yeah, a lot of people have mentioned that.

00:02.480: All right.

00:02.560: Except for the minute and a half of pure silence, I might use a lot of this.

00:02.560: What?

00:02.560: You kicked a Texas Master out of Premiere, the big file, the big giant ProRes file.

00:02.560: CL, GL?

00:02.560: And I got to say, you know, I think I saw the difference.

00:02.640: You know, and I'll say, Well, have you ever used it before?

00:02.640: And the only benefit that I've ever actually had from making a film and getting either work from it or contact or whatever it may be.

00:02.640: I don't want to love it.

00:02.640: And that would be an interesting thing to s check and see if your test was using OpenCL or not.

00:02.640: But a lot of times, you know, people that maybe aren't as experienced and are just sort of getting into the professional level of things and you know, they you know

00:02.640: So, anyway, all things being equal, if you do one at a time, they're both very fast.

00:02.720: So I want to explain something a little bit about podcasting.

00:02.720: Yeah, I was just curious, you know, uh wh when you said that you had moved in and, you know, didn't go to school, and it it's a good little case study in how to get involved in the business because

00:02.720: It's like, okay.

00:02.720: And I totally get that.

00:02.720: And I even have variants of that.

00:02.720: I want to let you go.

00:02.800: Shut up in the lens.

00:02.800: What are the things that you show people?

00:02.800: And I sort of made the stupid mistake of cutting natively and having this huge issue when I was doing my final export because

00:02.800: So I'm a fan of options.

00:02.800: I will also say, quite interesting, you know, Media Encoder is really good at taking advantage of all the cores on your machine.

00:02.880: I did this last night, so I can't remember.

00:02.880: Hey, Chris, you there?

00:02.880: I mean, a lot of people do enjoy that academic environment and they sort of thrive within that.

00:02.880: So then eventually, did you try and take some of that same media, string it out in Final Cut 10 and kick it out with the share menu from Final Cut 10?

00:02.880: It's like, yep, yep, did that eight years ago, did that 12 years ago, did that 15 years ago.

00:02.880: We'll be back Friday with I got a couple of different interviews.

00:02.960: You come into the States and taking jobs away from hardworking Americans?

00:02.960: They're you know, go and run with it.

00:02.960: And ultimately, you know, when you want to do that, you sort of have to go through.

00:02.960: I've used Aperture a lot, and I use Lightroom because I do a lot of photography too.

00:03.040: Noam is an editor, director, producer in Los Angeles town.

00:03.040: But anyway, they were talking about how a much better use of your money in today's day and age, a much better use of your money than going to film school is just make a film.

00:03.040: So I didn't find that it existed as much as I'd experienced in Toronto, which is where I'm originally from.

00:03.040: And, you know, because those other 80-90% of the people that say, yeah, it looks fine.

00:03.040: Twenty fourteen's been out for a few months now.

00:03.040: It's actually very, very cool, and it does speed up your renders because it doesn't have to access.

00:03.040: And you know, when you get to be as old as me, you need something to keep your interest because there's a lot of times when you're like, ugh.

00:03.120: None of them came close to what I was getting from compressor.

00:03.120: It's not the garbage can which I want to buy soon.

00:03.120: I want to put it down in front of me and try to tell the best story I can.

00:03.120: We're doing this.

00:03.120: And it it's you know, I'm looking at Premiere in front of me right now and it doesn't look all that different.

00:03.120: I think what I'd like to see is it would have to do with audio because

00:03.200: And it's wicked fast.

00:03.200: I don't know if you've hacked my iCloud account, but

00:03.200: You know, she doesn't she doesn't ultimately she doesn't care.

00:03.200: He's like, Yeah, I could do that.

00:03.200: But there's more and more guys like us that are sort of popping up now.

00:03.280: I mean, the color the color actually you know, I've worked for many years as a colorist and the bread and butter of my business is color grading.

00:03.280: September two, twenty fourteen.

00:03.280: And hopefully, we can do this again soon sometime.

00:03.360: I get stuff as small as web videos all the way through to feature films that have been theatrically distributed.

00:03.360: Because if they watched that version of your film and then they watched someone else's film, both of which they could have equally enjoyed, but one of them

00:03.360: There'll be two little icons that are showing you your progress.

00:03.360: Have you ever done this?

00:03.360: And I've mentioned this many times, that in virtually all of the marketing on Apple.

00:03.360: Yeah, I use auditions when I'm in the middle of a piece and I can't tell.

00:03.360: They're not going to be using any variation of either of these software.

00:03.360: I don't mind it.

00:03.360: And I think that the Aperture community is reacting to photos very much the same way that the Final Cut community would have

00:03.360: Now in my test, I know my data rate wasn't the same.

00:03.440: And this week it worked really well.

00:03.440: This is clear.

00:03.440: And I was like, Yeah, you know, shut up.

00:03.440: So, you know, we need to be able to sort of reinvent ourselves.

00:03.440: But yes, there'll be something like it.

00:03.520: Is this our Monday show?

00:03.520: And actually, you know, there's plugins for Final Cut 7, Premiere, After Effects, Motion.

00:03.520: No, you know what?

00:03.520: Took the Texas Master, took that into compressor, made an H.

00:03.520: I think it's a great piece of software.

00:03.520: CL.

00:03.520: Like it's it's pretty incredible.

00:03.520: com, spelled N-O-A-M-K-R-O-L-L.

00:03.600: I would do the Texas Master, take it into Media Encoder, run it twice.

00:03.600: What's going on?

00:03.600: It's amazing.

00:03.600: It's called Makeup Artist by Sheffield Softworks.

00:03.680: Now, recently, and we mentioned this earlier, this article that you wrote, very controversial.

00:03.680: And if anything, they encourage me to use it on projects that I collaborate on with them.

00:03.680: Or let me get my track select tool out.

00:03.680: But anyway, the the workflow, if you will.

00:03.760: And truthfully, I wanted to go back in and update it and give my exact

00:03.760: And then I think one other thing that's actually kind of peculiar, because you know, this is news to me because I actually really

00:03.760: I know I have editors that I hire on a contract basis, and it used to be that none of them knew Final Cut.

00:03.760: And every market's different, every city is different, but it's nice to see in LA, which is obviously one of the hubs that

00:03.760: For instance, there might be a window that's overexposed or something, and I may want to just drop it in the timeline and just see if I can bring that back.

00:03.760: That's amazing.

00:03.760: And I like talking to everybody.

00:03.840: And actually, there was one page here.

00:03.840: I was just noticing more artifacting to the image.

00:03.840: But I was, you know, almost anything that I could have tried just didn't seem to

00:03.840: I use After Effects a lot too, but now a lot of the time I don't even have to go into After Effects.

00:03.840: It's been a pleasure having you.

00:03.920: Does it kind of blow up?

00:03.920: Most of it's actually post work right now.

00:03.920: The H.

00:03.920: Sorry, OpenCL.

00:03.920: And I'm a visual person, I work in a visual medium.

00:03.920: A friend of mine works there, and they're cutting all their original programming on Final Cut 10.

00:03.920: You know, there's reality shows that I've worked on that have been cut and I finished in Final Cut 10.

00:03.920: You know, we joke about it in our office that, you know, I do a a a 95

00:03.920: I just wasn't sure why.

00:04.000: Ah, much better.

00:04.080: Sounds awesome.

00:04.080: Yeah, I mean, it's that's what I was saying.

00:04.080: So I did some really critical tests about the way that you do your test.

00:04.080: I just I can't remember at the time.

00:04.080: An example being: I recently shot something, just a small thing because I shoot as well, and I shot something for direct TV.

00:04.080: See if that works.

00:04.080: It's fundamentally the same.

00:04.080: I, you know, I'd probably prefer the wheel too if it was there because I'm used to using that all day.

00:04.160: So anyway, that's fxfactory.

00:04.160: I never went to film school or anything, though.

00:04.160: Anybody under 45 is a kid to me.

00:04.160: Uh a roles-based mixer or even the ability and I made a joke about this on the Pixel Core Virtual User Group last month.

00:04.240: Now you're right there in the heart of LA.

00:04.240: I had a similar experience.

00:04.240: It was a hundred times better.

00:04.240: And again, I do, if I'm looking extremely closely, there are going to be some slight variances between those.

00:04.240: I'll have sometimes four, but the main bundle that I use is three settings.

00:04.240: I could figure that out.

00:04.240: So you can edit like that.

00:04.240: But there is a plugin.

00:04.240: Very interesting, huh?

00:04.320: And she said, I just looked at them and I said, You have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

00:04.320: So, you know, it is what it is, but you know, hopefully it

00:04.400: So independent films, a lot of the stuff that you or some of the other readers of my website may have

00:04.400: Yeah, but then when they save it, they're losing, you know, in some cases.

00:04.400: 264 was sort of slow at one point and still is a little bit slower, I think, on Final Cut.

00:04.400: But, you know, I all the effort that people

00:04.400: Because I know people that have had it for four years and they still come back to it every couple of months, and they'll tell me they don't like it.

00:04.480: But I think it's like anything else.

00:04.480: So I used it, it was great, everything was fine.

00:04.480: So if I'm doing a 720p deliverable, or if I have to do, you know, if it was shot in 24p and I have to interlace for broadcast or whatever it may be.

00:04.480: But this is I believe, and I've kind of said this for a while, that and actually my friend Alex has seen this.

00:04.480: I mean, you know, another article I wrote a while ago

00:04.480: But there was an article I wrote a while ago where I cut a feature on

00:04.480: Now the software has been through many iterations since then, and it does get better.

00:04.560: Welcome to another episode of Final Cut Grill Zero Eight One

00:04.560: And I've got to say, I put one of these shows out, and I watch the download numbers.

00:04.560: It's like getting a nice car.

00:04.560: If I'm mastering a DCP or something for somebody, there's obviously a different level of care that goes into it.

00:04.560: Yeah, I use that all the time.

00:04.560: If you're going to get them a better product in less time and you're going to save them potentially money by saving them time

00:04.560: Oh, yeah.

00:04.560: Other things, I mean, there's so many.

00:04.560: Yeah.

00:04.560: If there's a couple different things that are doing the same thing exactly the same way, I'd rather have

00:04.640: But I would encourage people: if you have something to say,

00:04.640: Sounds awesome.

00:04.640: And then the other side of that is my business.

00:04.640: You know, and it really, and one of the things I always say is, you know,

00:04.640: Looked at that.

00:04.640: You know, even in LA, there's jobs, you know, whether it's a corporate job

00:04.640: I haven't used that particular one.

00:04.640: But I mean, I think apps are going to become more all-in-one, full featured.

00:04.640: I opened up the two files and I didn't look at the file name and I kind of jumbled them.

00:04.640: So, um if if you don't hear from me, bug me again.

00:04.720: I'm totally kidding.

00:04.720: And I was like, okay, let me write that down.

00:04.720: I use it a lot on other people's stuff because so many people are using it now.

00:04.720: I just want to be able to export my file and know it's going to work.

00:04.720: And it's just like to use a camera example, Black Magic.

00:04.720: All right, that's it.

00:04.800: Yeah, Monday show.

00:04.800: I was just curious, you know, one of the things that I've always said about film school is because one of my nephews graduated from USC and

00:04.800: It's just, you know, it has a big black mark, and I don't think that's going away.

00:04.800: Stage three is, I hate it.

00:04.880: What did you do?

00:04.880: And the answer is always no.

00:04.880: 264 as your codec, or you can just select the H.

00:04.880: I just think that one particular quirk is something that really needs to get worked out because it's something that we use many of us use on a daily basis.

00:04.880: Oh, did you see this?

00:04.880: And Peter Wiggins and I talked about it.

00:04.880: Like, I can't believe this thing is so much easier now than

00:04.960: But, but, yeah, I mean, it's never been a huge

00:04.960: You know, they'll pick up on stuff that filmmakers won't because they're not looking for a pain in the butt.

00:04.960: So Oh, yeah.

00:04.960: So it's a really amazing tool.

00:04.960: And if that doesn't, I can undo it and I could throw something else in.

00:04.960: But, you know, you could save yourself the step of having to label everything and worry that you're maybe missing something if that existed.

00:05.040: I mean, speaking from my own experience, I've had films go to

00:05.040: Like it takes, I mean, it's doing, you know, besides the fact that it my current workflow is two steps.

00:05.040: And eventually, if those if and when those people do come around to it.

00:05.040: If it's working, go for it.

00:05.040: And you know what?

00:05.040: No problem.

00:05.040: I should probably you know, I want to keep it handy.

00:05.040: They should I'm for the people that prefer color wheels, they they should somehow allow that option natively without some sort of a panel.

00:05.040: Understood.

00:05.120: You know, I got a tweet from somebody, and they said, Oh my goodness, you got to get Noam Kroll on the show.

00:05.120: And we had done an interview with somebody.

00:05.120: It's a modern app, it takes it takes advantage of all my cores, even on the twelve core that we have downstairs.

00:05.120: And there's this one group of people that do, that he's done a bunch of videos for.

00:05.120: Well, one of the things I use the most on a day-to-day basis is just the red proxy workflow because

00:05.200: But it just at the time, I was sort of, you know, looking for something to sort of sink my teeth into.

00:05.200: That's amazing.

00:05.200: It's like, God, I love this software.

00:05.280: Talking about FX Factory.

00:05.280: You sound great.

00:05.280: Sure.

00:05.280: But like you said, they'll feel it.

00:05.280: And I didn't know where the bottleneck or that's not the right term, but where the issue was and where

00:05.280: But again, it wasn't huge, and it was something that

00:05.280: Maybe that'll help us in some sort of way down the road.

00:05.280: You know, it just, there's some, there's some gap there that I just don't really get.

00:05.360: And so we joke about how.

00:05.360: And we have been told that in the early part of twenty fifteen, I believe, we're going to get

00:05.360: You know, there's always going to be something that's doing that.

00:05.440: I do so many of these crazy shows, I don't know when it was.

00:05.440: That was fine.

00:05.440: So I tried it under a number of different circumstances, and every time I had pretty much the same results.

00:05.440: So I brought one into Premiere, and this was from a totally different shoot with a different format, just to completely change up all the variables.

00:05.440: And you just learn stuff every day.

00:05.440: And if it works, then go for it.

00:05.520: I should have gone into filmmaking, you know?

00:05.520: Tell me a little bit about your

00:05.520: But let's talk tell me now what you discovered.

00:05.520: You can put those files in your laptop and go on the plane and come home and then finish with the raw.

00:05.520: Yeah, and I want to remind everybody that if you go back to episode two of The Grill back last November,

00:05.520: I don't know if you've ever played with that one, but it's, you know, it's pretty powerful considering it's right there inside

00:05.520: If people want to find more of your work online, what's the best way to search you out?

00:05.600: I know guys that are very inexperienced that are using Media Composer.

00:05.600: You know, like you are the power or

00:05.600: But the bigger thing is tracking.

00:05.600: And then I did another one.

00:05.680: So I do right now on sort of a day-to-day basis, my work is

00:05.680: So at that was the point where I realized something is going on here.

00:05.680: I like using compound clips.

00:05.680: If you could sneak in the back door at Apple and get to the programmers and get past all the marketing and all of the security and say, hey, hey, hey.

00:05.760: You sound great.

00:05.760: I'm going to ask you some questions for my friend Bill Rolland, who was on the show a couple of weeks ago.

00:05.760: I used to love Media Encoder because it's so fast for H.

00:05.760: Why does it take you a whole day to prep all your footage?

00:05.760: And when I look at Final Cut, it's different.

00:05.760: Very interesting, yeah.

00:05.840: It's not that hard.

00:05.840: And so, you know, you got to check out, you got to check out FX Factory.

00:05.840: Is that better?

00:05.840: And I find here, you know, so many people have moved to LA.

00:05.840: And so, um, I know for myself, for the longest time, I mean, they couldn't put that thing more in the center of the software and I missed it for months.

00:05.840: You know, shut up.

00:05.840: It was just straight up, you know, no question.

00:05.840: And you're like calling editors in from down the hall: hey, hey, Steve, come here, I want to show you something.

00:05.840: You know, you think just when you think everything is exactly the way you think it's going to be, it takes somebody with some

00:05.920: I took, although I never went to film school, I took a one-year postgraduate course in television producing.

00:05.920: But it's you know, with the as soon as you mention it, it's like, nah, you know, I don't want to use it.

00:05.920: Okay, so basically what happened was

00:05.920: Surprisingly, I think there's this sort of misconception that professionals aren't using Final Cut because

00:05.920: And so, what's going to happen is that

00:05.920: So I would love to see that too, because again, that would eliminate the need for Da Vinci in certain circumstances, at least.

00:05.920: Very cool.

00:06.000: So I want to thank the people from Premium Beat for being so generous and believing in what we're doing here.

00:06.000: It's actually, that's exactly true.

00:06.000: And as it turned out, it was the one that had gone it was a direct H.

00:06.080: It was all just sort of, you know, one step at a time, self-taught.

00:06.080: Okay, that's for you, Rob Terry.

00:06.080: It should have been the latest.

00:06.080: I mean, that I definitely I was on on twenty fourteen.

00:06.080: And you pick whether or not you want to use the OpenGL rendering

00:06.080: And I typically prefer that because

00:06.080: People fight it so much and they hate Final Cut because of it.

00:06.080: The timeline index.

00:06.160: Not a huge difference, really.

00:06.160: Well, I wish there was sort of an easy answer for that.

00:06.160: You know, just to shift gears for a second, so many

00:06.160: So that's what I was going off of.

00:06.160: 264 out of Premiere.

00:06.160: Now, it doesn't do them simultaneously, it does them one after another.

00:06.160: Oh, yeah.

00:06.160: Later, later.

00:06.160: So if you know somebody that should be grilled, by all means, let me know.

00:06.240: Well, thanks for checking it out.

00:06.240: And still to this day, you know, there's so much

00:06.240: Yeah, it is so important to have that.

00:06.320: I've spoken about this many times, but too much production music

00:06.320: Anyway, Noam, thanks for taking the time to do this.

00:06.320: And I'm looking for it here.

00:06.320: I don't know which one's going to click and show up, but

00:06.400: 264s are not all all H.

00:06.400: com and PremiumBeat.

00:06.400: Exactly.

00:06.400: We're giving our customers raw for a couple thousand bucks or a thousand bucks with a pocket camera.

00:06.480: I also mentioned, I believe it comes up organically in this interview.

00:06.480: Okay, I just plugged straight into the Mac Pro.

00:06.480: And I even put it in the show notes.

00:06.480: I created an H.

00:06.480: But what I can tell you is that I tried a lot of different variations within.

00:06.480: But I have it set up

00:06.480: I was blown away.

00:06.480: It's the guys that have something and again, I'm not trying to insult anyone.

00:06.480: Well, yeah, next year, yeah.

00:06.480: com, and all my social media and everything, which is just my name.

00:06.480: I took out my Texas Master and I ran one of them through

00:06.480: Nah, don't leave suggestions there.

00:06.560: Not true.

00:06.560: And, you know, it just saves you so many steps and it allows you to try things creatively.

00:06.560: Now skip to several years later

00:06.560: And that's sort of what Final Cut did.

00:06.560: What would you like to see changed in Final Cat 10?

00:06.560: So, yeah, I mean, that I'm a good reference point.

00:06.640: Awesome.

00:06.640: Exactly.

00:06.640: But, you know, I mean, to answer your question about the workflow.

00:06.640: But just as an aside, I did the same test from my older MacBook Pro laptop.

00:06.640: So, you know, what happened was

00:06.640: And for anyone listening that doesn't know how it works.

00:06.640: I mean, that's amazing.

00:06.640: There's a number of ideas that I've had.

00:06.640: I used a similar plug-in, but I've actually heard really good things about that one.

00:06.720: And FX Factory is the

00:06.720: So I'll assist with anything from offline editorial to color grading and deliverables.

00:06.720: So that's it.

00:06.720: They don't even realize that it could be different.

00:06.720: But if you're worried about that last little bit, like you mentioned, pixel peeping.

00:06.720: It doesn't matter if it drives the same as the cheaper car.

00:06.720: I just export my ProRes Master very quickly

00:06.800: Do you ever feel like you're not one of the cool kids because you didn't go to film school with everybody else?

00:06.800: Damn you.

00:06.800: People obsess over, you know, pixel peeping on

00:06.800: You know, yeah, absolutely.

00:06.800: I took kicked it directly out of the Final Cut 10 line.

00:06.880: It's what you put in, I think you take away.

00:06.880: And even the technical stuff, I mean, audiences really do pick up on technical stuff, even if they don't realize it.

00:06.880: This is going back a few weeks, but

00:06.880: And you know what I use that feature for all the time?

00:06.880: I got to do some tests because we might be changing our workflow here at the office.

00:06.880: I can't remember if it was on the show or when we were done recording, but.

00:06.880: What I've actually done is I'll tag things a certain way so I can go into the

00:06.880: Thanks so much.

00:06.960: You get a microphone, you get something to record it in.

00:06.960: But

00:06.960: Yep.

00:06.960: And again, I'm not saying that it's across the board or that I had everything set exactly the way it should have been because

00:06.960: And that way.

00:06.960: And if you do a lot of that sort of stuff, it can save you a ton of time.

00:06.960: Yeah, I think um I think you know

00:07.040: I don't know.

00:07.040: And if a software program allows me to do that in less steps, then I only see that as a good thing.

00:07.040: That would be my dream.

00:07.040: That's right.

00:07.040: But I think that there's a lot to be said for that metaphor of making power simpler.

00:07.120: So yeah, how do you want to do this?

00:07.120: 264 there, and it looked better, noticeably better.

00:07.120: You were in Creative Cloud at the time?

00:07.200: And you do not have to you do not have to favor Final Cut 10 just because that's the name of the show.

00:07.200: So I'll send my XML to Resolve.

00:07.200: They may not be able to articulate it, but they'll feel it.

00:07.200: 264.

00:07.200: I just personally find that

00:07.200: That's part of the fun of it.

00:07.280: I've done I've done uh interviews where people were just using the built in microphone on their H four N and just USB out.

00:07.280: Because there's nothing more frustrating than, you know, actually, some of the things in the early part of my career.

00:07.280: I mean, so many producers I work with, I show it to them.

00:07.280: And then I'll use

00:07.280: Exactly.

00:07.280: If it wasn't the latest, it would have been

00:07.280: So, yeah, the bundle thing, I can't even remember it.

00:07.280: And again, as stupid as that may sound, I don't, media composer.

00:07.280: You know, she works with editors that use Final Cut and Premiere and Avid.

00:07.280: But when you're dealing with a lot of tracks, it gets clunky.

00:07.280: That still may exist for

00:07.360: And, you know, I guess once I realized you could make a living off of it, then I was I sort of

00:07.440: It's just me and a microphone.

00:07.440: And so you kind of have to step up.

00:07.440: You know, same story over and over.

00:07.440: I could even bring it up here.

00:07.440: Like beginner level users love it because it gives them access to professional tools and they can learn it in a weekend.

00:07.440: I love the integration of

00:07.440: So you could

00:07.440: FX Factory is one of the sponsors of this show, and I love FX Factory.

00:07.520: I bought one of those.

00:07.520: I can't remember who it is now.

00:07.520: 264.

00:07.520: Stage four is.

00:07.520: And again, it's not that one is better or worse, but I think for someone.

00:07.600: And he was like, Oh my God, I can't believe you're still doing WMV.

00:07.600: And it wasn't quite as good.

00:07.600: I don't ask why.

00:07.600: Oh, I see.

00:07.600: But they

00:07.600: I want to keep it close by.

00:07.680: It's always, yeah, what camera was that, Sean?

00:07.680: And so it's out of Premiere ProRes.

00:07.680: So you in the export window or the share window, whatever, it's so consumer, whatever.

00:07.680: They just want them.

00:07.680: I mean, when you look at sort of the bell curve of

00:07.680: Tweet me suggestions.

00:07.760: I guess you prob did you see the No Film School article?

00:07.760: So anyway, I thought I would give it a try.

00:07.760: Noam, if you're sitting down with somebody who's kind of on the fence, sort of new, and you want to just show them a handful of features,

00:07.760: I'm scrolling down.

00:07.760: So

00:07.840: But, you know, it's not magical.

00:07.840: Or the response is: well, you know, it's just the web.

00:07.840: So,

00:07.920: I go, This is the thing that John mentioned.

00:07.920: However, though, here's the thing.

00:07.920: I just felt like I should force myself to like

00:07.920: I mean, ninety nine percent of the stuff I'm doing is hard cuts.

00:07.920: The auditions clip is great.

00:07.920: And I also want to say that, you know, we are let me think, we are recording this in September of this year.

00:07.920: But clearly what we've seen in the demos of photos is a whole lot of power

00:08.000: Yeah.

00:08.000: I love to hear what people that know nothing about filmmaking say about it because it's it's you know

00:08.000: 'Cause it's all it's all sort of coming from the same place.

00:08.000: And that's what I get with Final Cut.

00:08.000: So they've got their 4K, you know, just for archival purposes.

00:08.000: I don't want to sound like a total fanboy, but

00:08.080: So, I mean, I've seen sort of a surge from it already.

00:08.080: But yeah, pretty much the same.

00:08.080: Well, you know what?

00:08.080: Yeah, I prefer Final Cut.

00:08.080: You know, I want to be able to focus on telling a story.

00:08.080: I haven't really thought exactly how that would work.

00:08.080: Like you can, it helps you key off of the skin, you can soften, you can

00:08.160: com.

00:08.160: I've been

00:08.160: And every iteration, she wanted a

00:08.160: Oh, that makes sense.

00:08.160: But we also work in a creative industry where things change every day and every year.

00:08.240: I have a company called Creative Rebellion.

00:08.240: But

00:08.240: 264 version option from the drop-down menu.

00:08.240: I don't know if you saw this.

00:08.240: But

00:08.400: Oh, it's yeah, it's no big deal.

00:08.400: I love it.

00:08.400: I mean, there's definitely a slight increase in traffic today, but that

00:08.400: And it took me about a year and a half to go, um

00:08.400: I was just, you know, troubleshooting.

00:08.400: It's

00:08.400: And so.

00:08.480: And at the end of the day,

00:08.480: I'm glad you drew our attention to this.

00:08.560: 264s are not created equal.

00:08.560: One of the producers I cut for all the time, she was on the road working with a crew and

00:08.560: I mean, I like watching this stuff grow.

00:08.560: Yeah.

00:08.640: I don't want to have to go, oh, yeah, I remember seeing that.

00:08.640: And I don't think it has the stigma that it once did because

00:08.640: I also want to say a little disclaimer about something I said just about a couple of minutes ago.

00:08.720: Very much products that I use and believe in, and I would encourage you to take a look at.

00:08.720: Do you just sort of want to do it?

00:08.720: I feel bad.

00:08.720: It really depends on how I'm feeling for that particular project.

00:08.720: It's actually very cool.

00:08.720: Like I'd I'd rather be focused in a clean space and just look at just what I need to.

00:08.720: It's giving people access to really powerful features

00:08.720: I don't mind the board, it just feels very mouse-intensive to me.

00:08.720: And just like you can open a Photoshop file today and all sorts of software that

00:08.800: And I said, you know, I want to include you.

00:08.800: I mean, is there a solution that would have given a better result?

00:08.800: Fine.

00:08.800: I don't want to go to another piece of software just to make somebody look ten years younger.

00:08.800: And I started the Media Encoder.

00:08.880: Isn't it cool?

00:08.880: That never existed before.

00:08.880: And I think that you're totally right.

00:08.960: Yeah, yeah, ISO professionals.

00:08.960: They feel like we did it in 4K, let's just master it.

00:09.040: I appreciate you taking time out of your busy day.

00:09.040: And we spend all this time

00:09.040: It was good.

00:09.040: You don't have to hand hold.

00:09.040: At this point,

00:09.040: A lot of times I'm trying to discern

00:09.040: And I think that

00:09.040: Right.

00:09.040: If they had some sort of motion tracking for power windows and things like that,

00:09.120: So let's go to GnomeCrawl in LA.

00:09.120: I'll give you both of them.

00:09.120: In my opinion.

00:09.120: I've actually submitted some to them through Final Cut.

00:09.200: And I'm sure you can set up a similar workflow in Media Encoder.

00:09.200: But according to GNOME, even if it is the same, the results will still

00:09.280: But for something, if I'm doing a

00:09.280: I mean, they're one of the largest broadcasters in the United States.

00:09.280: They come out with their cameras.

00:09.360: And

00:09.360: And if not in Final Cut, maybe it is improved

00:09.360: It is

00:09.520: No, that sounds great.

00:09.600: No, it's it you know, I love

00:09.600: But

00:09.600: If if unless it had been updated in the last like

00:09.600: And like literally, like my my renders were half as fa or twice as fast.

00:09.600: Actually, do you know the trick in Media Encoder where you can select

00:09.680: I've never actually used this Apogee as a

00:09.680: And I feel like the same is true of pretty much all art forms.

00:09.680: I actually personally don't use that a lot, but I know a lot of people that really

00:09.680: So I'd love to be able to consolidate that.

00:09.760: We're doing it.

00:09.760: And I say, well

00:09.760: And in the

00:09.760: And I had read something about using the share menu and

00:09.760: It may have been Mark Spencer.

00:09.760: I'm looking forward to seeing what happens with that.

00:09.840: I mean, if you listen.

00:09.840: I created an H.

00:09.920: So let me clarify something.

00:09.920: I know guys that are still on Final Cut 7.

00:09.920: 264 kick out from the uh

00:10.000: And it's yeah, well, exactly.

00:10.000: And that's not, I mean, I understand that.

00:10.080: I want to meet some great people.

00:10.080: And I said, dude, my clients, like, you know, some of them, that's all they want.

00:10.080: It's like, oh, what now?

00:10.240: It's like, wow, people are really listening.

00:10.240: So there's a really, really wide spectrum.

00:10.240: 264 in particular.

00:10.320: So you're totally spot on with your comment that

00:10.320: But I also had a lot of people saying

00:10.320: There's plenty of reasons why you can

00:10.400: You can never, you know, be able to online

00:10.480: We worry about which lenses we're using, the cameras and

00:10.480: 264 from Compressor.

00:10.480: Bug me.

00:10.560: And so I decided to, you know, f contact him and within a few minutes.

00:10.560: Yeah, you know, it's just like, I swear, every day.

00:10.560: And I think that really plays toward

00:10.560: Well, you know, I find a lot of the time.

00:10.560: But you know, I'm sure that they're they're working on on something that that you know

00:10.720: But

00:10.720: Yeah, there's only so many stories.

00:10.720: Where did I keep that?

00:10.720: So stage one is, I hate it.

00:10.720: A lot of people may not love their cameras.

00:10.800: Would I choose to cut in

00:10.800: I mean, photos, it's the same thing.

00:10.880: Is that how you get it?

00:10.880: And I didn't quite know what it was.

00:10.960: Like, you're showing them some beautiful, loving.

00:10.960: Now this is a producer who works with me who has seen some amazing results.

00:11.040: It's a great way.

00:11.040: And like you, I mean, it just seemed to

00:11.120: I've been

00:11.280: I can't remember.

00:11.280: And I think it's sort of the same notion, which is

00:11.280: So you kicked.

00:11.280: No, it it makes perfect sense.

00:11.280: She just wants her piece done.

00:11.280: Bug me on the Twitter because sometimes.

00:11.360: And they know

00:11.360: com for Final Cut Pro,

00:11.440: Yeah, is it kind of blowing up?

00:11.440: But yeah, maybe they're listening to this podcast.

00:11.440: You know?

00:11.520: I used to even if I was cutting in Final Cut,

00:11.520: And who knows if we'll have it for the future.

00:11.520: Exactly.

00:11.680: We're doing

00:11.680: I use it all the time.

00:11.760: Probably, but

00:12.000: Well, you know what?

00:12.000: It's like, oh, good, grief.

00:12.080: You know, boy meets girl, girl's father doesn't like boy.

00:12.080: There's you know, it's all across the board.

00:12.080: And.

00:12.160: I do the same thing, but

00:12.240: So you can't

00:12.240: Exactly.

00:12.320: I'm by no means an expert on compression.

00:12.320: So, you know.

00:12.400: But if I just have to get something

00:12.560: If you like working that way, that's great.

00:12.640: And that's

00:12.880: I do personally

00:12.960: You can just shove it right there.

00:13.040: So um

00:13.040: But

00:13.040: A lot of people think they're great.

00:13.040: It just

00:13.200: I mean

00:13.360: And

00:14.000: You know, it's

00:14.320: So