Episode 79
FCG079 - From Point A to X (feat. Bill Rolland)
Aspiring to be a novice. The one man band. Writer, Director, Shooter, Audio, Talent Coordinator… Bill Rolland does it all with amazing proficiency and turns out a great product for major Bay Area firms you HAVE heard of. In todays episode we learn about how he approaches a job and why he decided to move to FCPX from Final Cut 7.
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00:00.560: Hey, good morning and welcome to another episode of Final Cut Grill.
00:03.360: Sorry, keep bumping my microphone.
00:05.200: This is episode 079.
00:08.120: And earlier today, I spoke with a good friend of mine, Bill Rollin.
00:11.080: Now, Bill is a producer that I've worked with for, I'm going to say, about 10 or 12 years.
00:19.859: You've heard me talk about Bill before, probably.
00:22.500: He's the guy who shoots, edits, directs, shoots, and edits his pieces, then he sends them to me for just a final polish.
00:32.720: And we will talk about that in the interview.
00:35.360: But Bill is also brand new to Final Cut 10, and he has, on my urging, moved from Final Cut 7 to 10 to better integrate and work with our office here.
00:45.840: It's interesting to talk to people that are in the process of making that transition because you learn what kind of things are stumbling blocks when you're trying to encourage somebody else or teach somebody else.
00:58.120: And the other thing that you're going to love about Bill is Bill has a fascinating outlook on how to work with clients because he got into this business primarily as a writer.
01:11.980: You're going to like Bill.
01:13.180: And frankly, I think I've already asked him to come back again and just talk about his workflow in terms of dealing with clients.
01:20.540: Anyway, for this Monday episode, I want to thank the people of Premium Beats for Premium Beat rather, no S.
01:26.140: For stepping up and supporting what we're doing here.
01:29.420: They are great to this industry and
01:34.140: You know, besides their music, you should definitely go look at their blog.
01:37.580: There are amazing tutorials and amazing resources for content creators in addition to their music, which I love, and you know that.
01:45.860: So go check out PremiumB.
01:47.299: com.
01:47.539: There's plenty of stuff there.
01:48.899: There's even a couple or at least one tutorial from me.
01:52.740: I owe them a few.
01:53.780: Sorry, guys.
01:54.640: And then I also want to thank Nicholas Bond over at FX Factory.
01:58.480: FX Factory is a wonderful ecosystem for your plugins, and it allows you to trial and test
02:06.120: Plugins before you actually purchase them.
02:08.040: And like, seriously, the whole real deal, every feature, every knob is functional.
02:13.160: There is a little watermark for a trial period.
02:17.040: But then, once you purchase the plug-in, of course, the watermark goes away.
02:21.200: So, I use FX Factory, I use it all the time, and I think you will like it as well.
02:28.480: So, let's go now to this interview with my good friend Bill.
02:31.960: Rolland from Sacramento, California.
02:37.160: Okay, well, I don't have you for very much time.
02:39.640: No, probably not.
02:41.000: But I want to explain a little bit about who you are and
02:46.820: How you use Final Cut.
02:48.980: But first, what is your background and how you actually got into this business, Bill?
02:54.620: Speaker 2: Oh, yike.
02:56.620: Speaker 2: Originally a writer, and I still do a lot of writing of scripts and brochures and things like that, text for business, primarily marketing materials.
03:05.420: Speaker 2: And just one day
03:06.940: Speaker 2: Yeah, a client said, Will you go out with a camera and and videotape your interview?
03:11.580: Speaker 2: And I did it with a little palm cord or something like that at that time.
03:14.220: Speaker 2: Of course, it was tape.
03:15.440: Speaker 2: And it was kind of fun, and apparently I didn't like screw the pooch.
03:20.480: Speaker 2: So they said, hey, would you want to do that again?
03:22.560: Speaker 2: Well, of course,
03:23.420: Speaker 2: you know, as you every time you do it, you want to do things just a little bit better.
03:26.780: Speaker 2: And I realized, oh, I could have gotten some better audio.
03:28.700: Speaker 2: So I went to a local electronic store and got a little Pell Light
03:32.680: Speaker 2: A lavalier microphone that wired in and I attached that.
03:35.960: Speaker 2: Just over time, it just got more and more elaborate every single time, trying to do just a little bit better.
03:41.940: Speaker 2: So now I find myself doing these on location interviews with a full camera rig, lighting, audio, the whole shooting match.
03:51.940: Speaker 2: And usually what happens is I'll write the contact the content of the interview
03:56.980: Speaker 2: or what have you, and then go in and videotape it.
04:00.660: Yeah, I mean, I people have heard me talk about you, probably not by name, but I have for multiple for many years talked about
04:09.240: you know, my one client who does like 90% of the work and then he just brings me, you know, in to take the ball over the goal line, so to speak.
04:17.660: And the working relationship that we've had has been very interesting because over the years, the projects that you bring to us to finish
04:29.840: have gotten better and better and better.
04:32.080: And it's getting to the point where I even said to Paul recently, I go, I think we're about another six to twelve months before Bill doesn't need us at all.
04:41.440: Speaker 2: Bless your heart.
04:42.560: Speaker 2: But
04:44.040: Speaker 2: I could not do this without you and without Paul.
04:47.800: Speaker 2: I think I do yeoman work, but you guys, when you talk about like carrying it over the line, you make it sound like you're starting at the 99-yard line, and that's not
04:55.639: Speaker 2: That's not how it works.
04:58.040: Speaker 2: You guys bring the value of the color and the audio.
05:01.639: Speaker 2: No, seriously, that I just cannot possibly do that.
05:05.240: Speaker 2: That requires
05:06.539: Speaker 2: A skill set I simply don't have, and and I will never have, and I don't even have a strong desire to acquire.
05:11.979: Speaker 2: Well, it's not that.
05:12.699: Speaker 2: You take something, you elevate it.
05:14.480: I think what you just said there is really important.
05:17.200: You said it's not something that you have the desire to acquire.
05:20.640: And I think that
05:21.760: I think a lot of people hamper themselves by trying to take on everything.
05:26.960: Yeah.
05:27.600: And end up you know, it's the classic, what do they say, the jack of all trades and master of none.
05:32.000: Master of none.
05:32.640: Yeah.
05:33.040: Right.
05:33.720: So you started when did you f when was that first palm quarter interview that you did?
05:41.560: Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but it's been something like 12, 15 years, something like that.
05:45.560: Speaker 2: It's been quite some time.
05:46.600: Speaker 2: We've been working together for many, many, many years.
05:49.900: Yeah, but it is interesting that you approach the kind of customer testimonial type things or product highlight videos.
05:59.320: You approach it from the mindset of a writer.
06:03.560: So your content is very concise, it's very well laid out.
06:07.800: And I think that
06:09.240: Unfortunately, in this business, a lot of us that get into this, and I'm speaking about myself primarily here, is
06:16.660: We just like all this cool gear, and then what can I actually do with it to pay for it?
06:21.300: And it's like, oh, yeah, these stupid clients, you know.
06:25.300: Speaker 2: Well, see, part of it is you have not only a technical background, you have a facility with things, all you know, technical things.
06:30.940: Speaker 2: So for you, there's no mystery around cameras.
06:33.980: Speaker 2: There's no mystery around software.
06:36.220: Speaker 2: It doesn't frighten you to put your fingers on the keyboard.
06:38.540: Speaker 2: To you, that's a very natural environment for you, and you're very much at home there.
06:42.740: Speaker 2: For me, part of it is it just scares the living daylights out of me.
06:46.180: Speaker 2: Anything technical like that.
06:47.300: Speaker 2: And I don't have a natural ability with it.
06:50.180: Speaker 2: So for me to stay awake or to not be so enamored or entranced by technology
06:56.440: Speaker 2: Is really just kind of who I am as a person.
07:00.040: Speaker 2: Conversely, I just love stories.
07:03.320: Speaker 2: I have a liberal arts education, although I did concentrate in mass communications and journalism.
07:09.340: Speaker 2: So for me, it comes from a different side, and that's the story side.
07:13.660: Speaker 2: And even when you're doing a business interview and you're talking about, well, tell me about your company
07:17.360: Speaker 2: Tell me about the solution you applied.
07:18.880: Speaker 2: Oh, really?
07:19.360: Speaker 2: How did it work that way?
07:20.400: Speaker 2: Describe the business results.
07:22.160: Speaker 2: You're still talking about a five-act story, right?
07:26.080: Speaker 2: I mean, it doesn't really change.
07:27.920: Speaker 2: You still have the same story arc as Macbeth.
07:31.340: Speaker 2: Where you introduce characters, you set a scene, you introduce conflict, it escalates resolution and then epilogue.
07:38.860: Speaker 2: It still follows a very traditional story arc.
07:42.460: Speaker 2: It really doesn't matter what you're talking about.
07:44.760: Speaker 2: And somewhat in some ways that takes a lot of the mystery out of what do we what's the content?
07:49.560: Speaker 2: What's the structure of the story?
07:51.160: Speaker 2: Right.
07:51.400: Speaker 2: Whether it's for business or for fun or doing even a family reunion video.
07:56.600: Speaker 2: They still follow the same traditional story.
07:58.760: That's actually really brilliant.
08:00.200: And I've never heard anybody articulate.
08:03.240: Wow, Bill, that's actually kind of smart.
08:05.080: No, I didn't mean it like that.
08:06.660: But I've never heard anybody articulate it that way.
08:08.980: And it is true.
08:09.940: It really is a story.
08:11.380: And all stories kind of have those three or five parts.
08:15.300: I like your five.
08:17.620: And I know that there are occasions when I'm working on something where I'm watching it and I'm thinking, I don't care yet.
08:27.440: You haven't made me want to care about whatever it is you're talking about here.
08:32.000: And I know that, and I think I've mentioned this to you before, and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned it on the show also: is that
08:39.320: I learned a great lesson from one of the producers I used to work with at Apple.
08:44.760: And her thing was that
08:47.480: In the first 30 and we would do these customer testimonials like why we use the iPhone or whatever.
08:54.600: And there would be
08:56.880: She had a rule.
08:57.920: She had a recipe that in the first 30 seconds, I had to know who you are, what you do, what your problem was.
09:11.160: And how you used an Apple product to solve it.
09:14.840: And all of that had to happen in 30 seconds, including saying the word Apple.
09:23.160: And the rest of it was just icing on the cake.
09:26.680: But the foundation was laid.
09:28.760: You know?
09:29.640: My name's Chris Fenwick.
09:31.400: We tell visually
09:34.140: elaborate stories using video and communication, and we needed a tool that would work quickly and efficiently.
09:43.980: And we found that Final Cut Pro 10 was the tool for the job.
09:47.180: Speaker 2: Boom!
09:48.459: Speaker 2: Yeah, bazinga.
09:49.500: Speaker 2: That's it.
09:50.380: And you can get that in a well-crafted question, but you can also, you know, one of our guests called it
09:59.640: Frankenbiting, you know, where you're where you're taking you're slipping words together and saying, okay, this is what we need them to say.
10:07.960: And I think that from an editing standpoint
10:09.959: That really helps sometimes when you look at somebody and you go, Well, what do you want this person to say?
10:15.480: And sometimes you do have to frank invite something together.
10:18.360: Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, yeah, very often.
10:19.480: Speaker 2: In fact, I just did a little edit that I just sent to you.
10:21.800: Speaker 2: In fact, I
10:22.200: Speaker 2: I think you did it last week where you can't tell because it was covered by B-roll.
10:25.640: Speaker 2: But there was about literally 45 frames of the person speaking made out of four parts.
10:34.040: Speaker 2: It was because I had to pick out individual syllables because he said something he shouldn't have said.
10:39.480: Speaker 2: But to your point, when I talk to
10:43.339: Speaker 2: Interview subjects.
10:44.220: Speaker 2: They'll say, Oh, hey, let's get this guy from shipping in.
10:46.300: Speaker 2: Let's get this guy from marketing.
10:47.420: Speaker 2: Hey, this guy from RD, he's really awesome.
10:49.100: Speaker 2: Let's get him in.
10:50.139: Speaker 2: And I'll tell him, look.
10:51.339: Speaker 2: It's going to be two minutes, thirty seconds in duration.
10:55.019: Speaker 2: And a viewer can follow maybe three characters.
10:58.940: Speaker 2: If you introduce a fourth character, that's too much.
11:01.819: Speaker 2: They're going to lose the thread of the story.
11:03.420: Speaker 2: They're going to forget who you are.
11:05.320: Speaker 2: And so, you know, the idea of the story and the characters, it translates into how many characters and I describe them literally as characters.
11:16.600: Speaker 2: How many characters are going to be in this corporate video?
11:19.240: Speaker 2: And you can have so many characters, you can no longer follow the thread of the story.
11:22.680: Speaker 2: Yeah, it's which has to be fairly simple.
11:25.800: Speaker 2: It has to be very direct.
11:27.000: Speaker 2: Again, because when somebody's even watching your video, they may be watching you on a mobile device at the airport.
11:32.180: Speaker 2: And it has to be a fairly simple, straightforward story.
11:36.340: Speaker 2: And I know this producer at Apple, you're talking about.
11:38.500: Speaker 2: And to be able to say in the first 30 seconds, we have to know who is this character.
11:42.680: Speaker 2: What is this person doing?
11:44.360: Speaker 2: I love how they get the name of the product in there and how they're using it, and maybe what they're getting out of it-the joy or the pleasure or the productivity or what have you-in the first 30 seconds.
11:57.120: Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess I would say she's right.
12:00.240: Speaker 2: Number one, because you've got to get those are all elements of the story.
12:03.440: Speaker 2: And number two, and this is something you didn't mention, and that is
12:06.899: Speaker 2: The attention span of the average viewer now, it's shrinking by the day, it feels like.
12:14.259: Speaker 2: I remember when I first started this business, you would have eight minute, nine minute, ten minute videos.
12:18.420: Speaker 2: Do you remember that?
12:19.200: Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds ludicrous now on its face.
12:21.360: Yeah, they were horrible.
12:22.880: Speaker 2: But I would say something like: maybe five years ago, I don't think it was strange to have a four-minute video, three and a half.
12:29.660: Speaker 2: Then two years ago it got down to three.
12:32.300: Speaker 2: Now I want to stick an ice pick in my ear if I see or hear a video that runs longer than a three-minute time stamp.
12:40.620: Speaker 2: And I tell clients that the three minute time stamp, that is the death zone.
12:45.660: Speaker 2: Your brain is dying.
12:47.580: Speaker 2: They won't click through and they won't watch.
12:50.140: You're in the death zone.
12:51.660: Do you ever look at the TRT of something and decide whether or not you want to hit play?
12:55.740: Speaker 2: Everybody does.
12:56.460: Speaker 2: In fact, I'll tell you something.
12:57.420: Speaker 2: This is a really good illustration for my clients.
12:59.740: Speaker 2: When they say, Oh, yeah, well, we timed it out, it's only six point five minutes.
13:03.120: Speaker 2: And I'll say, given the choice, when you're on YouTube or any video aggregation site and you see a video that's six minutes and thirty seconds, and right next to it is a video one minute, twenty seconds.
13:15.920: Speaker 2: Which one do you click on?
13:17.600: Speaker 2: And they always say, well, actually, I go for the one that's thirty seconds.
13:22.000: Speaker 2: And it's they know, they understand.
13:24.319: Speaker 2: And right after that, the discussion is done, they understand.
13:27.360: Speaker 2: Two minutes, 30 seconds.
13:28.560: Speaker 2: And we may be having another conversation in three years where we say, God, can you remember when videos were over 95 seconds?
13:33.840: Speaker 2: Can you remember?
13:34.480: That's crazy.
13:35.560: I I was I was with somebody once, um I can't even remember the client, but but we were doing an on location edit in um I was in Arizona, I remember I think 'cause it was hot.
13:47.600: It was one of these things where they divided their sales force into a bunch of teams.
13:53.040: There was like six or eight teams, and they each
13:55.520: made a little video and then they would and they shot it themselves, I think, and then they they filed them through my edit suite
14:04.120: To cut them down, and I had to cut like six or eight of these in one night because they were playing in the morning.
14:10.200: But after the teams cut it down, then the producer came in.
14:15.080: She was, and I say producer.
14:17.600: She was the leader of the event, whatever.
14:20.800: She was staff at the company, and she came in.
14:23.680: She wanted to see them to make sure she wasn't completely wasting people's times by showing these
14:28.880: Actually, pretty bad videos.
14:31.680: Yeah.
14:32.240: And so, and so we were watching it.
14:34.880: We watched the first one.
14:35.760: She's like, oh my god, this is horrible.
14:37.600: I go, yeah.
14:38.240: You know, it's
14:39.320: They're they're for starters, they're too long.
14:41.480: And I said to her, I said, You know, they can sell me a Jaguar.
14:47.720: Car on television in thirty seconds.
14:50.520: Do these people really think they need four minutes to explain this piece of software?
14:54.840: And she's like, Wow, that's a good line.
14:56.440: Can I use that?
14:57.160: And I said, Yeah, sure.
14:58.560: So the next day I'm in the ballroom standing in the back of the room waiting for the videos to play.
15:02.720: And she walks up on stage, she goes, You know, I was talking to our editor last night and he said And she relayed the whole story.
15:10.400: And I think it's true.
15:11.680: I think we you have to be
15:14.560: Cognizant that people are entrusting with you something that is probably one of the most valuable things they have in their life, and it's their time
15:23.820: And you can't waste people's time.
15:26.060: You know?
15:27.580: Because once you wasted my time, I never get that time back.
15:32.180: You know?
15:32.740: I can't get it back somehow.
15:34.980: Speaker 2: You know, that's an interesting point, only because um you know, especially with online media, like going to somebody's website or their blog or their Facebook page, or like I said, you know, being like a smart device or something like that.
15:46.920: Speaker 2: That is a one-on-one relationship.
15:49.560: Speaker 2: It's very often you have the speaker, which is the company or the client or what have you, and it's one single individual watching that video.
15:57.440: Speaker 2: And you can betray that trust.
15:59.920: Speaker 2: And it is, it's a betrayal.
16:01.680: Speaker 2: And I'll tell you what the it's exactly what you said.
16:04.320: Speaker 2: The betrayal is, I don't think your time has value.
16:08.820: Speaker 2: And that's a slap in the face, I think, to a consumer or to a business partner or a prospective client or a current client to say, your time has little value.
16:17.620: Speaker 2: I'm just going to spew some garbage at you.
16:20.040: Speaker 2: Because that's my job, and I don't really care if it adds any value to your day or not.
16:24.600: Speaker 2: To me, it's a betrayal.
16:27.480: Speaker 2: And it's rude, it's ruthless, it's cruel.
16:32.240: Speaker 2: It's just a horrible thing to do.
16:33.920: It's just open spirited.
16:36.959: Speaker 2: It's cruel.
16:38.399: Speaker 2: It's like kicking a puppy.
16:40.720: Speaker 2: It's right up there, I think.
16:43.200: Speaker 2: But the other reality is,
16:45.520: Speaker 2: that's you have only seconds with people to get your point across.
16:50.320: Speaker 2: You really do.
16:51.680: Speaker 2: You were talking earlier about the Apple example, and that's exactly right.
16:55.339: Speaker 2: You have to nail it within the first 10 or 15 seconds.
16:58.300: Speaker 2: And all that has to be is enough for the audience to say, What?
17:01.819: Speaker 2: What?
17:02.060: Speaker 2: What do you say?
17:03.420: Speaker 2: What?
17:04.140: Speaker 2: That's enough.
17:05.140: Speaker 2: For them to hang on and get the rest.
17:06.900: Speaker 2: But there has to be that in there.
17:09.380: Speaker 2: Why do they care?
17:10.420: Speaker 2: And I know this sounds like communication 101, but that's because it is.
17:13.839: Speaker 2: But but you you know yourself.
17:16.079: Speaker 2: How many communications do you see where they forego those critical basic foundational steps, which is why do I care?
17:23.700: Speaker 2: Why do I care?
17:24.980: Speaker 2: And very often it just takes forever.
17:28.020: Speaker 2: Anyway, I'm stating the obvious, but I think it's good.
17:31.740: It's it it totally gets overlooked and it's good to kind of, you know, circle the wagons and and discuss that again because I think that, you know, in the you know, uh another thing that I've seen many times over the years where
17:46.960: And it's so sad.
17:48.240: It's just sad and pathetic and horrible.
17:52.240: Speaker 2: I can hear you choking up.
17:53.840: Speaker 2: I can see the tears welling in your eyes.
17:55.600: Something like that, yeah.
17:56.640: So, no, it's where
17:58.740: It's where a company it's like that time of year, right?
18:02.740: And this person has been given charge of producing a video for the event or for the thing or whatever.
18:10.560: And this person is, you know, they're not a media professional, if you will.
18:16.480: They have a day job.
18:17.680: They're working in this office.
18:19.720: But somewhere deep inside, in another life, they wanted to be Steven Spielberg or George Lucas or whoever.
18:33.460: And they're like, oh, this is my chance to shine.
18:36.420: And they come to you with this frustrated filmmaker agenda.
18:39.860: And you're like, oh my God, we're going to waste a lot of time here.
18:43.860: Yes.
18:44.940: And it's just, it's like, you know what, buddy, I got news for you.
18:49.260: Let me help you be a hero to your boss.
18:52.380: Trust me on this.
18:53.899: This is not the path you want to go.
18:55.659: No, no, it's not going to be that hard.
18:57.179: I got it all figured out.
19:00.740: Speaker 2: By the way, I'll tell you, I have a client right now, right this moment, who is a former PA.
19:07.300: Speaker 2: for if I I don't want to say this, but for for a director, but it's like everybody.
19:13.220: Speaker 2: I mean like
19:15.140: Speaker 2: Small three-year-old children living in slums in New Delhi know this director.
19:19.700: Okay.
19:20.340: Speaker 2: And I'm a little bit dreading
19:23.340: Speaker 2: our first project, which is coming up very, very soon, exactly for that reason.
19:28.299: Speaker 2: This is somebody with very, very deep background in that side of the industry, the entertainment industry.
19:35.220: Speaker 2: But I'm going to be doing some video for them, and I'm a little bit concerned about how that's going to work out.
19:41.060: Speaker 2: I'll let you know later how that works out.
19:43.720: Well, speaking of honoring people's time, let's I do want to talk about Final Cut 10 because that's what this show is about.
19:49.640: But I could talk about this stuff all day, and I am going.
19:53.240: I'm going to say right now that within forty eight hours of this show going live, there will be requests and tweets for bring Bill back.
20:01.560: I want to talk more about his philosophy of how he brings stuff.
20:05.019: So um you start when you started your your uh palm quarter shooting days era, when did you start actually getting involved in the editing also?
20:14.120: Speaker 2: Oh boy, that's a great question.
20:15.720: Speaker 2: I don't remember exactly, but I think I probably did some things for myself, for my business or for my family in iMovie.
20:22.520: Speaker 2: And that probably goes back to the very beginning.
20:24.120: Speaker 2: So that's been, what, 15 years?
20:25.480: Speaker 2: That sounds about right, doesn't it?
20:27.520: That's a good question.
20:28.800: I think now that I think about it, I think Final Cut was first and then iMovie, but somewhere around there, 13 yeah, like the early 2000s.
20:36.800: Speaker 2: That sounds right.
20:37.440: Speaker 2: But I know originally when I started out, I didn't try any editing at all.
20:40.900: Speaker 2: And you know, so much about this, this industry has changed about the accessibility of these technologies, like how cameras are used, and how lighting is used, and audio, and editing.
20:50.320: Speaker 2: that when I first started, it was like I'm trying to think of the most complex.
20:55.280: Speaker 2: It was like trying to fly a space shuttle.
20:57.520: Speaker 2: And it was just not even possible to consider sitting down and doing some even some basic cutting.
21:02.480: Speaker 2: So I always left that to
21:04.179: Speaker 2: to professional editors.
21:05.620: Speaker 2: And I think it first started off doing some stuff on iMovie, and then from there it was Final Cut Pro, which I think at that time was Final Cut Pro 6.
21:14.260: Speaker 2: And that's only because I was very familiar with the Mac platform, you know, working with
21:19.460: Speaker 2: You know, dragging and dropping and folders and bins and all that stuff seemed very natural to me at the time.
21:26.340: So now recently, and again, we in our office here, we've been using Final Cut 10 for about a year and a half or so, maybe two almost.
21:36.020: I've been messing with it for about two, a little more, maybe.
21:39.340: But we recently, you and I and Andrew, your son, sat down about I guess that was about a month ago now, because we've been sort of saying, come on, Bill.
21:49.360: Come on, join the party.
21:50.320: Join the party.
21:52.000: Yes.
21:52.159: Come into the light.
21:53.279: And we sat down and went through our workflow and how we organize our jobs and stuff.
22:00.820: What was I I know that you were like, really what was that experience like for you?
22:08.420: Speaker 2: Well, of course, at its base, it was all about shame.
22:12.240: Speaker 2: And now we come to you with these Final Cut Pro 7 projects, and I had this look like I just brought a poop burger or something and dropped it on your porch.
22:20.460: Speaker 2: It was like the most hideous, malformed, odiferous thing I could ever bring.
22:25.340: Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:26.140: Speaker 2: And I felt, well, you know, I'll tell you, it's
22:28.540: Speaker 2: I do try to get better every single time, at least part of that, Chris, is because I know that if I bring you something that is second rate, I'm going to get the eye roll, I'm going to get the worst kind of
22:39.560: Speaker 2: Harsh criticism imaginable.
22:41.400: Speaker 2: So every time I shoot, every time I cut everything, it's like, what will Chris say?
22:44.520: Speaker 2: What will Chris say?
22:45.800: Speaker 2: If I don't wipe balance, I'm going to hear it from Chris.
22:49.200: Speaker 2: A big part of it, like with anybody, especially a producer or director, and that is workflow.
22:55.440: Speaker 2: That is absolutely critical.
22:57.520: How do you get from point A to point X?
22:59.740: Right.
23:00.380: Speaker 2: And and everything has to be.
23:02.220: That was cute, by the way.
23:03.260: Final cut ten, X.
23:04.780: Point A to X.
23:07.620: Speaker 2: Because you can't have any glitches in the workflow.
23:09.860: Speaker 2: And part of that is because, you know, again, when I started, do you remember it was eight weeks to do a video?
23:15.419: Speaker 2: You would write it, you would shoot it, you would edit, you would copy off the VHS tapes or whatever.
23:20.460: Speaker 2: And now it's not unusual to get projects, like you'll say, you'll be on location where I need it the next day.
23:25.500: Speaker 2: And so every single element in your workflow has to be
23:29.340: Speaker 2: Beyond reproach.
23:30.380: Speaker 2: There can't be a single possibility.
23:33.260: The real frustration is when something that you've done in your workflow, and I think this is something that everybody has to think about, regardless of the specifics of the industry that you're in, is
23:42.620: You need to work in a way that you don't have to do something twice.
23:46.860: You know, it's like, oh, I mean, there's just it's so easy to do, especially
23:53.100: Today.
23:53.659: I mean, it you don't want to do have to do something twice.
23:57.580: Speaker 2: It's real funny you say that because so I'm shooting this little video with my son and he's using a palm quarter and it records to the AVC HD.
24:05.140: Right.
24:05.460: Speaker 2: Which is a very common codec.
24:08.340: Speaker 2: And before I could use the what does it put out?
24:12.420: Speaker 2: The AVCHD MPEG.
24:15.660: Speaker 2: MPEG?
24:16.860: Speaker 2: Well, I had to convert through VLC, which is third party software.
24:19.900: Speaker 2: I had to convert those clips into MP4 so I could import them, I think, into Final Cut Pro 7 so I could edit.
24:27.660: Speaker 2: And that's
24:28.919: Speaker 2: Definitely where now you've got a hitch in the workflow.
24:32.919: Speaker 2: And where I'm relying on a third-party software, I'm relying on
24:39.980: Speaker 2: An extra step I don't have to take.
24:42.140: Speaker 2: And one of the things that I discovered, and literally this happened yesterday, in Final Cut Pro, I could take those ABC HE clips, 10, rather.
24:51.660: Speaker 2: Final Cut 10.
24:52.720: Speaker 2: And I could just copy the raw folder over into the media folder in my Final Cut Pro 10 project, open up Final Cut Pro.
25:02.060: Speaker 2: and import the files.
25:03.420: Speaker 2: And basically, I just cut out that entire extra step of having to first copy them over, convert them through VLC, and then from VLC bring them into Final Cut Pro 10.
25:12.540: Speaker 2: I've just complete.
25:13.420: Speaker 2: And not only that, they look gorgeous.
25:16.340: Speaker 2: They came across just beautifully, and it was instantaneous.
25:19.620: Speaker 2: You know how quickly it imports the clips, and you're ready for editing.
25:23.620: Speaker 2: It was immediate, and we were cutting.
25:25.720: Make sure I'm going to give you a pointer that you may run into.
25:31.880: So there is actually a bit of
25:34.940: I call it cha cha cha that's happening in the background.
25:38.139: You can start looking at those clips and dragging them about and putting them in a timeline.
25:43.140: But you need to look at those clips in the icon mode and in the I believe it's the lower left-hand corner, there's a little clock that's spinning that goes around once for each clip.
25:57.040: And basically, it's rewrapping those clips.
26:00.400: And I have had some nasty problems in the past where before all of those clips have been rewrapped
26:08.800: The person either quits Final Cut or closes the lid or whatever.
26:15.040: And those files that were all that you were looking at all of them.
26:18.480: I was like, no, I totally saw it.
26:20.240: And then you start Final Cut again and it says missing media.
26:24.080: And you're like, Huh?
26:25.440: But the clip's right there and you open up the thing and you go, It's right there.
26:28.480: And it goes, Oh, yeah, that right there.
26:30.560: And then you work all day and then you shut Final Cut off again the next day.
26:34.820: And the third day, it's like missing media again.
26:37.220: And it can get in this really weird cycle.
26:39.300: And I don't totally understand exactly what's happening or why, but definitely make sure those things go through their whole look at the last clip in the bin and make sure there's no little
26:49.140: Clip.
26:49.700: And again, you know, I say this all the time.
26:52.420: I'm learning this too, and I don't necessarily know how to articulate some of the things I run across, but that's something that I've seen.
27:00.320: It really bagged me a couple of weeks ago.
27:03.040: Speaker 2: I bet it would.
27:04.080: Speaker 2: No, awesome advice, and I'm going to double-check that to make sure that that's happening.
27:07.440: Yeah, because some of the things that seem like they're happening instantaneously, they're really just happening in the
27:12.519: background and they're and the the application is allowing you to you know forge ahead because I think an underlying
27:23.760: Tenant, if you will, that Apple has had with Final Cut 10 is we want to make it easier for the people who thought it was hard.
27:33.600: Okay.
27:34.640: And unfortunately, and this is a fair complaint that people can have about Final Cut 10, although most of their complaints they're making are not fair anymore.
27:45.120: In an attempt to make things easier for people who thought it was hard, sometimes it makes it harder for people that thought it was easy.
27:53.960: Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what?
27:55.480: Speaker 2: Mind blown.
27:56.600: Okay, so and it's it kind of makes sense because there was a there's a lot of stuff that a an editor, not somebody who edits, but an editor
28:07.340: Who does this all the time every day?
28:09.100: You sit down at your machine and you're bringing in your stuff and you organize your footage and you link this and you drop this and you connect that and whatever.
28:17.900: And if you go back to the early
28:24.520: One of the I can't remember exactly what it was, but there was a version of iMovie.
28:30.620: That came out where Randy Eubelos, the guy who is behind iMovie, he's behind Final Cut 10, he was behind Final Cut 7.
28:38.760: six five four three two and one.
28:40.679: And also Randy worked at Adobe back in the day doing Premiere version one, two, three, four.
28:45.880: Randy Eubelos is the godfather of digital video.
28:49.320: Okay, he no doubt about it.
28:51.820: But he did a demo at a Mac world where they brought Randy up on stage, and he and his line was something like:
28:59.620: You know, I went on my vacation and I came back and I sat down to edit my vi my vacation videos from my family and it just took me too long to get started.
29:09.840: So this is what we've invented.
29:12.399: And yeah
29:17.419: Maybe it felt like it was getting too long to get started, but that's my job.
29:23.660: That is what I do.
29:25.500: It's okay.
29:26.860: And I think that there's a reticence.
29:29.240: to some tools that appear to be more consumer friendly that professionals look at and go, oh, that's a toy.
29:37.480: Speaker 2: Yeah.
29:38.440: Speaker 2: Does that make any sense?
29:39.560: Speaker 2: Well, absolutely, because you know, when something is frightening and complex and difficult and you master it
29:46.559: Speaker 2: There's money to be made.
29:48.080: Speaker 2: Well, there's that, obviously.
29:49.840: Speaker 2: But, you know, and you're one of these people, you're like super smart.
29:52.720: Speaker 2: You're like one of the smartest people I know.
29:54.480: Speaker 2: And there's a great deal of pride that comes with knowing how to do something that nobody else can do.
29:59.100: Speaker 2: I mean, granted, you know, we've all kind of built a career around the fact that we can do things that other people can't do.
30:04.059: Speaker 2: But there's a unique pride when you can do something really hard
30:08.060: Speaker 2: And then when you think somebody's made it like really bonehead, you know, like, do you remember like using a manual transmission and then they had like automatic super old?
30:16.040: Speaker 2: But it was like, what's so hard about clutching and shifting, right?
30:19.160: Right.
30:20.040: Speaker 2: But it kind of felt a little bit like, well, now nobody has to know how to use a clutch or shift anymore.
30:24.760: Speaker 2: But the fact is, it's actually much easier, much safer, and much better to have an automatic transmission.
30:29.160: You know, when VW was trying to make in the early 60s, when VW was trying to make
30:36.720: You know, the Beetle more popular.
30:38.800: And a lot of American cars had automatic transmissions, right?
30:41.920: They had like push buttons, man.
30:43.520: Exactly, like a radio, like an AM radio.
30:45.760: Crazy.
30:46.560: Speaker 2: Yeah, you think you're like pushing in top 40 or something like that.
30:49.280: VW had a
30:50.440: VW had a commercial that said, In a couple of days, it'll feel automatic.
30:56.760: And that was their
30:58.519: That was their excuse, or that was their advertising campaign about why a manual transmission was okay.
31:05.240: Speaker 2: Well, in a couple days, it feels like you'll get over the pain and the complexity and the difficulty.
31:13.960: Speaker 2: Yes, I understand the impulse to actually want a little more complexity.
31:18.679: Speaker 2: It's like a lot of industries have jargon
31:21.200: Speaker 2: like the legal industry.
31:23.120: Speaker 2: And part of that, I think, is it's an exclusionary thing.
31:25.760: Speaker 2: It's like we're all part of the club.
31:27.280: Speaker 2: We all know what tucum desis is.
31:29.360: Speaker 2: Ibbid.
31:30.640: Speaker 2: Ibid, things like that.
31:32.000: Speaker 2: It makes you feel like you're in the club and nobody else is in the club and knows, and even though it's not really relevant.
31:37.200: Speaker 2: I mean, we could all just use English.
31:39.360: Speaker 2: And the fact is, like in an editing application, yeah, it could be difficult.
31:43.800: Speaker 2: But I think that's just some kind of emotional validation that has absolutely no relationship to actually sitting down and getting something done and being productive.
31:52.440: Speaker 2: And for me, if I can see something now that was taken used to take five tasks
31:56.760: Speaker 2: And two applications in half an hour, and now it's done by clicking a button.
32:00.760: Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I'm just a button pusher now, but gosh darn it, I just saved thirty minutes and I got the same effect.
32:05.960: That's quite excellent.
32:07.019: Yeah.
32:07.659: Speaker 2: Yeah, my clients, they don't know any better or worse.
32:09.580: Speaker 2: All they know is that the product still looks awesome, and I've lost less hair.
32:15.019: Speaker 2: You know, because the thanks.
32:18.059: Speaker 2: Thanks to both of us.
32:18.940: Speaker 2: You and I.
32:20.660: Speaker 2: But they don't have to know that it's gotten easier for us.
32:22.820: Speaker 2: They just know that they got the product and they like it.
32:27.460: So let me ask you now, you have now delivered, I believe, two or three projects
32:32.760: To us, that you did on Final Pet 10.
32:34.679: And I got it.
32:35.320: And I will be honest in saying it's like, oh, gee, here we go.
32:39.960: Let's see how this works.
32:41.640: But I thought they came out really well.
32:44.280: I thought they, you know, the.
32:47.280: They were all of the templates and stuff that I gave you in terms of like how to interface with our office worked very well, it would appear.
32:56.899: What was the experience like for you doing those first few pieces in Final Cut X after being a hardcore Final Cut 7 learner?
33:06.260: Speaker 2: Boy, that's a great question.
33:08.820: Speaker 2: At times, insanely frustrating.
33:10.580: Speaker 2: I want to be honest.
33:11.299: Speaker 2: I don't want to make it sound like it was a cakewalk because it was not that.
33:14.500: Speaker 2: Part of it was getting my brain to sort of look at it a different way.
33:18.260: Speaker 2: And I'm it's not like I'm suffering from early onset Alzheimer's, but but sometimes to have to reframe the way you look at something, the way you've been looking at it for years and years and years,
33:29.040: Speaker 2: is the hardest hurdle to look at it with fresh eyes.
33:32.800: Speaker 2: And that was probably the hardest thing.
33:34.480: Speaker 2: Like how you don't have bins necessarily, you have keyword collections.
33:40.159: Speaker 2: And the tools work differently, and the way you skim across clips is different, and the way you can choose favorite parts of clips, it's a little different setup.
33:50.399: Speaker 2: I will say this, maybe.
33:52.880: Speaker 2: I took it very slowly.
33:54.800: Speaker 2: I only started when I knew that I had time, that I wasn't under huge time pressures to get a project out right away.
34:01.440: Speaker 2: And the other thing that I did that I think was helpful was every single time I had to accomplish a task, I would go learn how to do it.
34:09.839: Speaker 2: And that sounds stupid, but so for example, well, how do you make this transition?
34:15.340: Speaker 2: So I might go to the Apple support site and read how you do it and then go back and do it.
34:20.700: Speaker 2: I could have fumbled around, and that's always kind of fun, you know, just kind of play with things and see what happens.
34:25.159: Speaker 2: But very often, that's a way to form some bad habits.
34:27.720: Yeah.
34:28.120: Speaker 2: So, what I tried to do from the very beginning, right, and this is really key to you, you did set up a template for me.
34:33.399: Speaker 2: And you showed me basically how to structure the project and follow a workflow in and back out again.
34:38.639: Speaker 2: And I've really tried to follow that for two reasons.
34:42.399: Speaker 2: Number one, of course, to integrate with your workflow so that projects go as smoothly and as efficiently and quickly as possible.
34:48.440: Speaker 2: But also, so I develop good habits from the very beginning.
34:51.320: Speaker 2: And to me, this is a lot like learning how to downhill ski or snowboard.
34:54.679: Speaker 2: That if you start from the very beginning, taking your time and doing it right incrementally, step by step by step.
35:02.480: Speaker 2: not only do you learn the application and you get good at it and smart and fast and efficient, but you don't develop bad habits doing things the wrong way.
35:10.160: Speaker 2: And that means like wasting keystrokes, wasting actions, doing three steps when you can get by with one.
35:15.960: Speaker 2: That kind of thing.
35:17.079: Speaker 2: So, I don't know if I'm answering your question.
35:18.359: Speaker 2: I guess you're just asking, how was it to make the transition or how's the learning process?
35:21.880: No, no, no.
35:23.720: You're definitely answering the question.
35:25.319: So, you just
35:27.099: To give yourself a little bit of extra time, realizing that, you know, partly because I've been pounding you over the head with it, that this is the way that at least we're going.
35:38.900: And I think I've been fairly clear in my assertion that once you get over that
35:47.620: It's not a learning curve.
35:48.740: I think I described it to you as the learning wall.
35:50.660: We talked about it all.
35:51.460: Speaker 2: Oh, it is that.
35:52.100: It is that.
35:52.820: But once you get over the bruises on the forehead and get over that wall, it goes much quicker once you get going.
35:58.980: Speaker 2: Yeah.
36:00.039: Speaker 2: You know, two things.
36:00.680: Speaker 2: It's like anytime you learn something new, or you're making a change in your workflow or new gear or whatever, honestly, just slow down, pour a cup of coffee, relax, avoid the distractions, or have a scotch or whatever it is that helps you relax.
36:13.260: Speaker 2: and just spend the time to go through it and get it right.
36:16.940: Speaker 2: That said, I gotta tell you, every time I sit down and use it, I discover something else that just makes me shake.
36:23.540: Speaker 2: With excitement.
36:26.980: Speaker 2: You're concerned about where that was going.
36:28.660: Speaker 2: But I mean, it's like, oh my God, that is so simple.
36:31.460: Speaker 2: Oh, my God, that is so fast.
36:32.580: Speaker 2: Oh, it does that.
36:33.780: Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
36:34.660: Okay, give me a couple of examples of those that have excited you.
36:38.580: Speaker 2: Now you got me under the gun here.
36:40.900: Speaker 2: Let me think of something that well, first off, the importation of the AVC HD.
36:45.440: Speaker 2: Again, I do want to go back and make sure that they did complete that importation and the wrapping in MP4.
36:52.160: Speaker 2: Let me think of something that was like just holy, holy freaking cow.
36:57.680: Speaker 2: And you know what?
36:58.320: Speaker 2: Give me a minute to think about it.
37:00.240: I know you had mentioned on the phone that, you know, like
37:06.480: You were multiple times you were running upstairs and saying, Andy, come look at this.
37:10.080: This is great.
37:10.880: Yeah.
37:11.760: Speaker 2: Oh, but see, now I feel like under like
37:14.540: Speaker 2: If you'd asked me any other time, I probably would have just come up with two or three.
37:17.660: Speaker 2: If you think a bit.
37:18.380: Speaker 2: But anyway, every time I sit down, and you know, obviously I try to be.
37:22.059: Speaker 2: Very methodical, and like I said, just kind of learn how to do it and learn how to do it the right way.
37:25.500: Speaker 2: But you can't help it, like kind of stray off and kind of just play with a little bit, right?
37:28.859: Speaker 2: Right.
37:29.180: Speaker 2: And every now and then, you just discover something that used to be more complex.
37:36.060: Speaker 2: You know, probably, but see, I don't know if this happened in Final Cut Pro or 7 or not, but you can sample, you can create a
37:43.780: Speaker 2: Clip, take a clip, and you can adapt the color, adjust it just the way you want.
37:48.260: Speaker 2: And then you can add filters, you can add layers of things, you can do all that stuff, and then you can just sample that color and apply it to every single color.
37:56.840: Speaker 2: On every other similar clip, they look identical.
38:00.280: Speaker 2: But I think you could have done that in Final Hip Classic.
38:02.680: Yeah, that was called Paste Attributes.
38:07.040: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:07.840: And yeah, it has a it has been around.
38:10.480: Now I will tell you, um, your uh delay to the party, if you will, has probably served you quite well because it it wasn't until
38:21.500: I believe it was 10.
38:23.500: 0.
38:25.100: 6 that it didn't actually have pace attributes.
38:28.620: Speaker 2: Yeah, it had a lot of features like that that were missing.
38:31.440: Yeah, and and you know we're definitely at a point I was having this conversation with uh with another producer just the other day that we're definitely at the point now where
38:41.500: There's anything that people complained about two years ago is all totally gone.
38:45.740: It's all totally gone.
38:47.420: Yeah.
38:48.380: And frankly,
38:50.500: The newest implementations of things are just better.
38:54.820: Speaker 2: Well, you don't want to say ha ha to somebody who adopted this early and had to go through some of these rough patches.
39:01.380: Speaker 2: But the reality is that it was always the pioneers that ended up stuck full of arrows.
39:06.819: Speaker 2: So in a lot of ways, with any technology, and I'll give you one quick example of that.
39:10.579: Speaker 2: So, yeah, I agree.
39:11.859: Speaker 2: Sometimes
39:13.180: Speaker 2: it's really good to leap into things early.
39:15.339: Speaker 2: It gets you ahead of the curve.
39:17.099: Speaker 2: Sometimes there's always advantages to holding back.
39:20.140: Speaker 2: I got to buy a new camera.
39:22.619: Speaker 2: Every three years, I try to upgrade my camera platform.
39:27.620: Speaker 2: And as much as I'd like some of the new stuff out there, I'm also looking for things that have been around long enough.
39:35.940: Speaker 2: that the bugs have been worked out.
39:37.220: Speaker 2: Because almost every time a new platform comes out, there's always complaints about this, this, this and this.
39:41.380: Speaker 2: Usually about the second generation, they clean up eighty percent of those problems.
39:45.020: Speaker 2: So the same thing.
39:45.740: Speaker 2: You know, it's great to be ahead of the curve, but sometimes that's where all the bleeding is done.
39:50.380: Exactly.
39:50.700: Yeah, definitely.
39:52.140: So what were some of the things that frustrated you the most as you first started on
39:58.320: Working on these first few pieces that you've sent us.
40:01.120: Speaker 2: Okay.
40:02.240: Speaker 2: I'm still very, very new at this, and I'm still a novice and all this stuff.
40:06.080: Speaker 2: You know, there's the cursor, and then there's the skimmer.
40:09.720: Right.
40:11.079: Yeah, it's almost like having two separate playheads.
40:13.480: Speaker 2: That is killing me, and I still am not over that.
40:16.839: Why should I still have that?
40:17.799: I'll tell you something about the playhead and the skimmer that's kind of interesting.
40:23.079: So
40:24.200: In the beginning, I will say that that confuses you, and there's something that happens, and I can't put my finger on what it is, where it just
40:37.320: Clicks over and you get it.
40:40.040: Speaker 2: Oh, it's peyote.
40:44.120: Something just clicks over and you get it.
40:46.040: And all of a sudden, you realize, I don't know why I had a problem with this before.
40:50.940: Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, you can turn it off, but I don't.
40:54.619: Speaker 2: And that's because I know that I'm heading to that peyote moment.
40:58.720: Speaker 2: And I want to get there.
41:00.640: Speaker 2: Even though, like, right now, it's really disorienting for me.
41:03.760: Speaker 2: I know that I'm going to get there, so I'm staying with it.
41:07.120: Right.
41:07.440: No, no, no.
41:08.400: Yeah, yeah, the turning off the skimmer is the letter S or shift S turns off the skim.
41:13.360: I will say a good one to know is that there is
41:15.940: you can turn off the audio skimming also.
41:18.099: So you don't have all the as you're as you're moving your cursor back and forth.
41:25.240: Because sometimes you want to see it, but you don't have to hear all the noise.
41:28.600: Speaker 2: Yeah, but I like it.
41:29.240: Speaker 2: I feel like I'm watching cartoons at the same time as I'm working.
41:31.960: Speaker 2: So it's really kind of an appealing experience.
41:34.600: Speaker 2: So the playhead and the skimmer, that's one.
41:36.760: Speaker 2: Playhead and the skimmer.
41:37.900: Speaker 2: Um let me okay, let me think.
41:40.300: Speaker 2: Oh, um right now, when you place or clips, or if you don't use like Command P or Command A, when you move clips, they'll uh
41:52.040: Speaker 2: What do they call them when they come together?
41:53.240: Speaker 2: There's a name for that.
41:54.200: The magnetic timeline.
41:55.640: Speaker 2: That's it, the magnetic timeline.
41:57.880: Speaker 2: That's been a real struggle.
42:00.360: Speaker 2: And again,
42:01.640: Speaker 2: It's one of those things that I know I will get over.
42:05.000: Right.
42:05.720: Speaker 2: But right now, mastering that, that's definitely been a challenge.
42:09.480: Speaker 2: And it's just annoying.
42:10.440: Speaker 2: It doesn't not work.
42:11.559: Speaker 2: I mean, obviously, it works.
42:13.700: Speaker 2: It's a matter of learning how to make it work.
42:16.180: So, the thing that I tell people all the time, first of all, I just want to clarify: it's not Command P and Command A.
42:20.500: It's literally just the letter P and the letter A.
42:23.060: We'll change it between
42:24.340: The select tool and the position tool.
42:26.420: But I just want to make sure that we say that right.
42:28.260: Bless your heart.
42:28.820: Thank you.
42:30.580: And then I think the mindset around the magnetic timeline is
42:35.839: That and I've explained this before in the past, that when you were really deep into Final Cut 7, and I did this for many years.
42:47.680: You wouldn't, if I if I let's say I have four clips in a row, clip one, two, three, and four, and I want to move two to the position of number four.
42:57.020: Okay, now in Final Cut 7, what you could do is pick up number 2, drag it over to the end, put it at the end, then select 2, 3, and 4, and drag them over and butt them up against number 1.
43:11.320: You could do that.
43:12.600: If you were pretty deep into it, like I was, you would hit, I believe it was Command Shift X, which is actually
43:21.200: Cut and ripple.
43:23.120: Okay.
43:24.000: And then you'd move your pay hit playhead down to the end and hit paste.
43:27.360: Command V
43:28.820: So those really sort of high end features were kind of reserved for the people that were willing to learn a whole nether set of keyboard shortcuts.
43:39.339: And I like to explain that those kinds of things are actually kind of free in Violet 10.
43:46.220: You don't have to memorize a bunch of stuff, and you're actually getting, you know, like you can ripple.
43:51.620: Paste in Final Cut 7, but you had to know the special keyboard shortcut for that.
43:58.340: Whereas if I cut clip 4 out of the end of the timeline, move my cursor down between 1 and 2.
44:05.420: And hit paste, it will ripple it.
44:08.380: Right.
44:08.780: So it's kind of a free advanced feature.
44:11.500: Speaker 2: And I think I'm just now understanding what that really means.
44:15.020: Speaker 2: At first, it's annoying because it's like a
44:18.200: Speaker 2: You know what happened?
44:20.440: Speaker 2: It just changed the way I'm used to it.
44:22.200: Speaker 2: That's all.
44:22.680: Speaker 2: It's different.
44:23.320: Speaker 2: So it's a little disorienting.
44:25.000: Speaker 2: Now I'm understanding that when you insert a piece and all the pieces ripple off to the right.
44:31.320: Speaker 2: It just did all the reorienting of all your clips for you.
44:35.640: That you were going to have to do anyway.
44:37.160: Speaker 2: That you were going to have to do manual, or like select all of them and move them someplace or something like that.
44:41.880: Speaker 2: It just did it for you.
44:43.840: Speaker 2: And then I'm just now in the process of understanding how much time that saves me every time I do that.
44:50.240: Speaker 2: And if you don't like the magnetic
44:52.340: Speaker 2: Timeline sort of orientation.
44:54.180: Speaker 2: There's still lots of ways to do that.
44:55.620: Speaker 2: I'm learning that too.
44:56.340: Speaker 2: Because sometimes when I do B-roll, and B-roll just covers over people yakking
45:00.200: Speaker 2: I still like to put that someplace else, kind of cut together the basic configuration, and then bring it over and lay it on top of my primary time line.
45:07.320: Speaker 2: You can still do that.
45:08.440: Speaker 2: That's still there.
45:09.480: Speaker 2: That hasn't really changed.
45:10.920: Speaker 2: But it's the rippling, the insertion, and then all the other pieces moving together as a single locked group.
45:16.920: There's a couple group
45:18.540: Yeah, there's a couple of tr tips I'll give you here.
45:20.940: So you talk about you want to pre-edit something.
45:23.740: You can always just edit that at the end of the timeline.
45:26.220: Right.
45:27.380: You know, using the Q, W and E, I think we talked about that when you were here.
45:33.060: So the E for put it at the end or Epend, I know that's not a real word.
45:38.260: So when you're
45:39.260: Skimming around in your bin, you go, Oh, here's the wide shot of the guy walking into the building.
45:43.500: Okay, E.
45:44.380: Oh, and then here's the close-up of him walking through.
45:47.100: And then, oh, here's his hand on the doorknob.
45:48.940: E.
45:49.420: Okay, then you can just buzz down there to the end of your timeline.
45:53.339: And loop those or set those little guys together.
45:57.260: Here's a cool trick.
45:58.859: So you're working at the end of your timeline, and you've got those three shots together: the wide shot, the medium, and the ECU.
46:06.579: Select all three, hit Command, Option, and the up arrow.
46:13.140: Speaker 2: And it'll go up to the secondary storyline.
46:14.660: And it'll create a secondary storyline with a little wrapper around it.
46:18.840: And now that one thing, you can copy that by selecting the story wrapper, the little bubble around it.
46:27.240: You can either copy it and paste it over the part of the VO you want to cover, or if your timeline is you can see the part, you can just drag it over.
46:36.600: And now you have a little pre a little story there.
46:39.900: Right?
46:40.460: Speaker 2: Okay, that's command shift up arrow.
46:43.180: I believe it's command option up arrow.
46:45.340: We'll push the selection up to the secondary storyline, leaving a slug underneath.
46:51.460: Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's introduced another kind of new way of looking at this, and that is you can group those clips.
46:57.700: Speaker 2: Very often, they'll be grouped by the three clips that you put together in the timeline, right?
47:03.140: Speaker 2: And they'll have that little bubble around them.
47:05.640: Speaker 2: That's the secondary storyline, you know.
47:07.559: Speaker 2: Right, right.
47:08.520: Speaker 2: And that's been a little bit tough sometimes because I may want to pull a clip out of that grouping.
47:14.340: Speaker 2: And I've had to learn how to break apart that group if I want to pull one clip out of it.
47:19.380: Speaker 2: And that's been a little bit tough to sort of get my brain wrapped around
47:23.460: Speaker 2: But now that I'm understanding how to move them about, how to use them, how to optimize them, I'm much, much happier with that.
47:30.980: Yes, one second.
47:32.819: Speaker 2: No worries.
47:36.080: I'm gonna have to go let somebody in the door here in a second.
47:41.280: So
47:43.200: The grouping and the popping up.
47:45.839: What else?
47:46.480: Just little things like that.
47:47.520: Speaker 2: Just little things that are different, that are different how you not just how you do the tasks you want to complete.
47:55.340: Speaker 2: but how it appears, how it behaves.
47:57.740: Right.
47:58.620: Speaker 2: It's definitely some different things.
48:00.540: Speaker 2: But you know, it's kind of fun every time you get over a new little speed bump.
48:04.540: Speaker 2: And that's all they are, just little speed bumps.
48:06.820: Speaker 2: And you discover that there's a little golden nugget behind all that all that that I don't want to say crap, but but but but but you finally clear away the debris and you realize, oh my God, that
48:21.299: Speaker 2: That is awesome.
48:22.099: Speaker 2: That's an awesome tool, and it works really, really well.
48:25.299: So, Bill, one of the questions I ask people all the time at the end of the show is: if you could sneak in the back door to Apple.
48:31.460: And you could ask the programmers to make you any feature.
48:37.460: Speaker 2: What would it be?
48:39.140: Speaker 2: Put hair on my head.
48:41.380: Speaker 2: A feature like for Final Cut Pro 10s.
48:44.460: Speaker 2: Something like that.
48:45.180: Speaker 2: What would I really like?
48:47.660: Speaker 2: Oh boy.
48:51.260: Speaker 2: Okay, this is coming from a complete point of ignorance because I don't use After Effects, any of that stuff.
48:58.559: Speaker 2: I would love to see a little bit more customization in some of the graphic treatments, some of the like lower thirds and titles and things like that.
49:09.039: Speaker 2: A little bit more ability to get in and tweak them and make them more custom.
49:12.620: Speaker 2: that might be the only thing.
49:13.820: Speaker 2: And I again, I know that, that ability exists.
49:16.940: Speaker 2: You just got to go to like After Effects and some of those other thir uh motion write in motion and other apps.
49:23.180: Speaker 2: And I'm just not familiar enough with those or have enough facility
49:27.099: Speaker 2: So maybe being able to do some of that stuff a little bit easier, quicker, more efficiently within Final Cut Pro 10, that might be it.
49:32.940: Any request that people give is always a good one because
49:37.420: I'll tell you, I had this conversation with somebody from Adobe many years ago, and he said the biggest problem that they had concerning Photoshop was that when people ask for a specific feature
49:49.520: He said more often than not, that feature already existed.
49:55.440: Speaker 2: Yep.
49:56.400: Speaker 2: And you know, my experience
49:58.260: Speaker 2: Yeah, and with Final Pet Pro, a lot of times I'll be like, how do I do this?
50:01.460: Speaker 2: I want to do this thing, I want to do this thing.
50:03.220: Speaker 2: You have to look.
50:04.900: Speaker 2: I'll do a quick search in a support form or something like that.
50:09.060: Speaker 2: Or I will just actually play around with it.
50:12.559: Speaker 2: And it's there.
50:13.680: Speaker 2: Very often, it's there.
50:15.440: Speaker 2: You just have to find it.
50:16.880: Right.
50:17.200: And I think what you're going to find in regards to the customization of lower thirds and stuff is a lot of stuff does exist, it is there.
50:24.880: If you have not done so already, I will recommend paying the extra 50 bucks and getting motion.
50:32.240: Because what you can do with a lot of the graphics that are in, like, let's say you want to customize a lower third, right?
50:38.160: Right.
50:38.480: Now, I will say it does take a certain amount of wherewithal to get into that whole onion and peel that back.
50:46.040: But if you take any graphic that's already there in your in your lower thirds selector box thing
50:55.340: and right click on them, you can open that file in motion and
51:03.220: You have the full weight and power of motion to be able to modify and change it.
51:08.660: And some stuff, and there was a great
51:12.720: Discussion I had with a guy named Dustin Hoy several episodes ago, and he made all of his own templates for the fishing shows that he does.
51:22.040: And what he has to do is he has to deliver the exact same show to two separate networks.
51:27.560: And the two networks have totally different looks and feels and styles.
51:31.260: So what he's done is he's made these really elaborate lower thirds where he can say, type in the name, type in the title, go to the ABC look.
51:41.220: Go to the phishing channel look and it just goes tink tink tink and all the same information it stays there, but the font changes, the size of the fonts changes, the images behind it, the graphic wrappers and stuff.
51:53.820: So, there actually is a lot of those things, but clearly it's something that, you know, once you get over that, you know, position tool and magnetic tool.
52:02.940: Speaker 2: Right, I'm feeling a little bit more comfortable, but maybe something to pursue.
52:06.160: Speaker 2: But you know, there's a larger and I know we're running out of time there's a larger issue that you kind of addressed at the very beginning of the show.
52:12.080: Speaker 2: And that is for anybody who's going to do producing or, you know.
52:16.420: Speaker 2: You know, follow this line or whatever, and that is like, where do you stop?
52:19.620: Speaker 2: You know, do you are you going to be, you know, like I said, A to X?
52:22.900: Speaker 2: Are you going to be the whole thing?
52:24.180: Speaker 2: Or are there some things you're going to leave for the Chris's in the world who are just awesome?
52:28.120: Speaker 2: at some of these graphic effects, awesome at color, you're just a wizard.
52:32.840: Speaker 2: Amazing at audio.
52:34.040: Speaker 2: Or because it's that last but it's that last twenty percent that just elevates every project from being just, oh, that's pretty good to oh, my
52:42.240: Speaker 2: Oh my Lord, that's amazing.
52:44.160: Speaker 2: The colors are amazing.
52:45.760: Speaker 2: It's that last 20%.
52:47.360: Speaker 2: But that last 20% for somebody like me may mean putting in another full day every week to learn some of that stuff.
52:53.280: Speaker 2: And it may just be the place to work.
52:54.320: And it may not be worth it.
52:55.520: Speaker 2: And it may not be where I want to go.
52:57.680: Speaker 2: And I would say any other producer has to make that calculus too.
53:00.880: Speaker 2: And that is, where do you want to put your time?
53:02.560: Speaker 2: Where do you want to put your effort?
53:04.640: Thanks for doing this.
53:05.520: I really appreciate you taking time out of your weekend.
53:08.000: And I'm going to just warn you in advance.
53:10.079: I promise you, people are going to want to have you back just to talk about, you know, the big picture stuff, the stuff that is just.
53:17.620: You're very elegant.
53:18.500: Speaker 2: You've flattered me shamelessly and recklessly, but I appreciate it.
53:21.300: Well, you are my client.
53:25.240: Speaker 2: All right, man.
53:25.960: Speaker 2: You take care.
53:26.680: Take care, Bill.
53:27.400: Thanks.
53:27.720: Speaker 2: Bye-bye.
53:29.400: Anyway, I told you you would enjoy hearing from Bill, and I definitely want to have him back.
53:34.680: He and I, the times I actually get to sit down with Bill in the room.
53:39.099: is always it's very energizing.
53:41.900: He's got a great outlook on the business and how to do good work.
53:46.140: And we recently hired him to do a bunch of produce a bunch of pieces for one of our clients.
53:52.320: So anyway, Bill is available.
53:54.720: You can find Bill at billrolland.
53:57.200: com, R-O-L-L-A-N-D.
54:00.579: And he also has some really kind of fun little resources like, hey, how to dress better for your video or how to, you know, record I helped him do one years ago.
54:09.940: How to shoot a better flip video.
54:11.940: So anyway, a lot of fun stuff on his site and great producer.
54:17.300: I highly recommend hiring him if you need somebody to help you out.
54:21.340: So, thanks again for listening and participating.
54:24.220: We'll be back Friday with another episode of The Grill.
54:27.020: And as always, if there's somebody that you think should be on the show, let me know.
54:31.100: Tweet me.
54:31.660: And if you don't hear from me or if you don't hear that guest on the show,
54:36.180: Show by all means, bug me again.
54:38.420: All right, thanks for listening.
54:39.940: Later, later.