Episode 41
FCG041 - Oasis of Sanity (feat. Darren Roark)
You can’t get time back, it is the one resource that we can’t buy. Efficiency in post production is the holy grail. Darren has worked tirelessly over the years to help people find new ways to streamline workflows by suggesting new ways of working. Its no wonder FCPX is his edit system of choice. We also talk about the issue of a “Trail of Bread Crumbs” and how any edit workflow must retain its integrity. Darren tells an amazing story that DOES NOT follow this rule.
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Featuring
- Chris Fenwick
- Darren Roark - [email protected]
- Darren Roark - @twitter
Transcription
00:00.001: So I tell people all the time, you should really try and figure out what it is you want to do and start climbing that ladder.
00:00.001: 20 years ago.
00:00.001: And I find who gave me this cold at NAB, which I still have.
00:00.160: We will go to our interview with Darren Rourke from FCP Works.
00:00.160: are you sure I can't come at ten?
00:00.160: Right.
00:00.160: At least enough about everybody's job so you can actually communicate things.
00:00.160: one of the first um you know state rebates for production and so yes so that really kind of you know
00:00.160: Boy, when you put it like, what was my logic?
00:00.160: It's inconsequential which ladder you choose to start climbing.
00:00.160: The people that I work with and friends with, and now most of them live here.
00:00.160: I'm not using my creative energy on other people's hopes and dreams anymore.
00:00.160: the guy got really frustrated with how many layers he had and so he just rendered it out and brought it back in and got rid of all his work and just started cutting over it.
00:00.160: for anything I've made.
00:00.160: you know, where avid cutters have brought in the computer and showed them Final Cut and they're just like this is the most ridiculous thing.
00:00.160: Yeah, but it was only four grand at the time.
00:00.160: It was like, well, this will be great.
00:00.160: It facilitates you making bad decisions quicker.
00:00.160: He always starts that and for the first time I actually answered you know after like 10.
00:00.160: There are bugs that I would definitely want to.
00:00.160: I why didn't I think of this?
00:00.160: it makes it easier to make that website transportable.
00:00.160: I don't really want people like work-related reading my actual Twitter necessarily.
00:00.160: And Facebook is just a cobwebsite that I only retain so other people named Chris Fenwick can't get Facebook.
00:00.160: But I've helped out on a lot of other things.
00:00.240: To do a bunch of demos in the Red Booth.
00:00.240: It's kind of a nice little oasis of sanity.
00:00.240: But you don't have to write it down because it's recorded.
00:00.240: Boy, how wrong was I.
00:00.240: being shot in Canada.
00:00.240: It's a huge, it's a huge issue.
00:00.240: their life, you know, from the outside, everybody goes, ah, shut up.
00:00.240: During the strike.
00:00.240: Yeah, I mean, I've said to people all the time, especially young kids getting into the business and trying to find their footing, that what we do is we climb ladders.
00:00.240: Like I finally came to that realization about myself.
00:00.240: And I'm kind of in a way I'm like a hands-off post-production supervisor.
00:00.240: more about the people that they at least want to get the film, say, 80% of the way there, and then brings in an editor.
00:00.240: Trail of breadcrumbs.
00:00.240: A self-contained QuickTime movie with nothing.
00:00.240: Resolving issue, third-party mobile devices, playback incorrectly, addresses stability issues caused by changing the start time on a compound clip.
00:00.240: I literally just told my clients I don't crumb a key.
00:00.240: Harder on yourself.
00:00.240: Pretty much, yeah.
00:00.240: And he was saying that somebody at his job came into his office and said, Hey, are you using Final Cut 10?
00:00.240: I said, oh, probably a few hours.
00:00.240: I guess that's a feature that they're coming out with that supposedly makes it a little closer, but it's still not as
00:00.240: And he pauses and he puts his mouth down for a second and he looks at the audience and he says, Hey, let's face it, some ideas are worth taking.
00:00.240: This matters if you're using Final Cut 7, please.
00:00.240: And again, this has nothing to do with Final Cut 10.
00:00.240: So if you plan ahead and dis and maybe rejigger the way you're arranging things or marking things or rendering things or
00:00.240: You'll never have to relay a piece into a timeline again after you've laid it once.
00:00.240: It's terrible.
00:00.240: It's like, no, you know how to work an avid.
00:00.240: That was just a thing.
00:00.240: I've never actually seen this, but I will tell the story nonetheless at a well-known post facility.
00:00.240: Those are the easiest to convince to use Francaten, though, by the way.
00:00.240: Uh, yeah, it looks like this is gonna be about ten minutes.
00:00.240: oh, you need to look at these three emails and deal with them.
00:00.240: I'm a visual person.
00:00.240: Return.
00:00.240: It's getting to the point where I realize I really am working faster.
00:00.240: It's just the people that are good at what they do can just do it quicker and not have to think about all the
00:00.240: So there.
00:00.240: you know, you could do five different versions, but why not just spend the time really knowing the footage and do it right in the first place by spending more time actually
00:00.240: Is that Tribeca like two years ago?
00:00.240: But it's all about digital versus film.
00:00.240: And then he realized, now I'm going to switch to computers eventually.
00:00.240: just get better at shooting with your red camera or your black magic or Alexa or DSLR or whatever you're shooting with.
00:00.240: The reason he was sitting there is he had proven himself to be worthy of the responsibility of driving that room and that equipment.
00:00.240: Oh, yeah, because that room was very expensive.
00:00.240: You know, it just didn't happen.
00:00.240: and slamming together some different shots that he shot on his iPhone.
00:00.240: And he takes an old at-at toy that was his when he was a kid.
00:00.240: You know, maybe he's not a big Hollywood player stop motion guy.
00:00.240: Camera specs at NAB that year.
00:00.240: the Infinite Loop or whatever building the programmers are working on, Final Cut 10 up in Cupertino, and you could uh get them to make you one feature, what would you ask them to do?
00:00.240: Awesome picture.
00:00.240: It just has to keep track of where I am relative or where that thing is relative to where I am.
00:00.240: This is my best final cut project slash library slash media slash whatever.
00:00.240: Many times.
00:00.240: was completely different by 10.
00:00.240: Final Cut 10 allows you to do it.
00:00.240: even though it says no, it's like, you know, this is different and this has audio and that one didn't.
00:00.240: Yeah, like an expert mode.
00:00.240: Uh-oh.
00:00.240: Well, I've done a few shorts with a guy named John Daly.
00:00.240: Anyway, he was amazing to talk to at NAB and I really wanted to get him on the show.
00:00.240: those comments really help the show get noticed, and it actually makes it rank higher when you comment.
00:00.240: Get to find out about the show and all that.
00:00.240: That work is not safe for other work.
00:00.240: Also, go to the iTunes where you subscribe to the podcast.
00:00.240: So, thanks for listening.
00:00.320: And I wanted to share that with you.
00:00.320: Regardless of any editing and stretching and shortening of the cut to make it fit your piece better, you're going to dig this trick.
00:00.320: We were still getting set up and you dropped by.
00:00.320: Well, I I don't think I was I I wasn't wrong for my own you know for what I wanted out of that situation.
00:00.320: Was it the road to hell is paved with good intentions?
00:00.320: Went to New York.
00:00.320: pretty much what I'm doing now, which is, you know, freelance editing and, you know, I had an HPX200 at the time and did a lot of shoots with that.
00:00.320: work went away, so I said, Well, it's probably going to be easier to fight up for work when uh you don't have to worry about paying your heating bill.
00:00.320: Was a big deal.
00:00.320: And if you look at two A-frame ladders that are touching each other at the feet, they fan out away from each other as you climb those ladders.
00:00.320: So what type of work and I'm talking about your editorial work and whatnot.
00:00.320: You know, technical advice and counseling and direction, but you're not necessarily emotionally attached to the story.
00:00.320: There are also people that just can't, you know, would never know how to be an editor, and they, you know, they need to work with editors.
00:00.320: Afterwards.
00:00.320: Um, I just find it really difficult when I get have to get thrust into somebody else's messy hard drive and start making heads or tails of it.
00:00.320: Started using that.
00:00.320: Couldn't understand and you know, I I ruined projects because I didn't I didn't read the manual, which you know, I
00:00.320: I was doing something for Funnier Die, and I decided to give it another shot because of the chroma keyer working so quickly.
00:00.320: It really snapped into place and I kind of haven't wanted to use anything else since.
00:00.320: And the release numbers and the features of all of the various um uh
00:00.320: Releases, I guess I'm trying to say.
00:00.320: Anyway, yeah, I think the I have gotten to the point where I am really in love with the chroma gear.
00:00.320: For the first time, I was able to chrome a key as fast as I could edit.
00:00.320: Chromaky DV footage.
00:00.320: I just was never happy with it.
00:00.320: But I don't think anybody realized how small an SD card was going to be.
00:00.320: Yeah, there were still a couple things that you couldn't do yet that I needed it, you know, needed to have it working, but
00:00.320: Who have been saying to me, Oh my goodness, I really wish I could use this at my job.
00:00.320: Using this at the old final cut at home or on their personal projects.
00:00.320: But I'm talking to people that are having those experiences.
00:00.320: You know, I call it the aha moment.
00:00.320: And you guys are doing what would how would you describe what FCP Works is?
00:00.320: We've heard people talking about this, and we have a few last questions to get answered.
00:00.320: How long would it take you to get eight hours of Red Epic footage before you could start making selects and doing rough assemblies and string outs?
00:00.320: I bet he would do that and answer some of those questions.
00:00.320: When he demoed the they call it hover scrub.
00:00.320: He took his mouse and he started hovering over some of the clips in the bins.
00:00.320: Which kind of makes you wonder, are these things not are these ideas not patented?
00:00.320: You really shouldn't worry too much about the why.
00:00.320: It works now.
00:00.320: So you can match frame things so you can run two playback in the viewer at the same time.
00:00.320: Time conference.
00:00.320: But I see this, you know, uh much of the work that we do here is cutting, cutting, cutting, creating
00:00.320: elements and After Effects, whether they be keyable or full frame, bringing them into my bins or my keyword collections, my event.
00:00.320: in point and the out point of something coming out of After Effects, and then they have to align it and match frame it back in and like, oh, am I in sync?
00:00.320: No, you know, it is sloppy.
00:00.320: You know, whatever that you could plan ahead so that the second, third, and fourth revision would actually go quicker.
00:00.320: But just it just clean up your workflow.
00:00.320: render more efficiently and kick things out more efficiently and place things more efficiently to the point where making little changes on things
00:00.320: and how difficult it is to adapt to another one.
00:00.320: worried about losing their jobs, unfortunately.
00:00.320: But they had to know how to tell a story and they knew how you know, they had to know those things.
00:00.320: Then Avids became all of a sudden $50,000 instead of $150,000.
00:00.320: That's true.
00:00.320: Yeah, and it it especially like the early days of H.
00:00.320: redo it.
00:00.320: This doesn't work.
00:00.320: And we have been lied to, I say, for the last 25 or 30 years.
00:00.320: you know, this perpetual connection thing means that people are getting, you know, called into the office, or not even called into the office, but just contacted in the middle of Saturday afternoon with your kids.
00:00.320: And I think everybody thought that, oh, you know, we're going to actually, you know, work will be easier.
00:00.320: Of finding ways that I can use the software more intelligently.
00:00.320: technical like button pushing, then everybody gets scared.
00:00.320: Or somebody who should not be editing at all.
00:00.320: It's more precious to you, so you're going to take it more seriously, and that's why it's always going to be better.
00:00.320: But I don't know what Patrick Bolvin's background is.
00:00.320: But he has done some great pieces.
00:00.320: You can see he does Iron Man versus Bruce Lee, which was quite good.
00:00.320: Because he's absolutely killing it out there with the work that he's doing, and he's doing it outside of the system.
00:00.320: Because it allows people like Patrick Baldwin to get his work in front of my eyeballs.
00:00.320: I worked on a bunch of films that were submitted to Sundance.
00:00.320: you know, it is.
00:00.320: There at the time there were like 300 submissions in the feature, you know, for features.
00:00.320: Right.
00:00.320: bizarro world.
00:00.320: Thing that's under the Final Cut Pro menu.
00:00.320: A relative address would be if you're already on ChrisFundrick.
00:00.320: And this is used all the time in web development because when people make a web page with relative links,
00:00.320: But the library file is relative.
00:00.320: When you're looking for this MOV, look on drive, you know, Hap, you know, happy feet, or, you know, look on Nemo slash all my Final Cut Pro projects slash
00:00.320: all of that relinking when you move a job from drive A to drive B would be a thing of the past.
00:00.320: And what that did is certain files, because this is a documentary, and there's footage from sources that before you should never have put on a timeline.
00:00.320: Take that take the training wheels off and just let it deal with it, you know Let it relink to it
00:00.320: you know, Bill Cosby and Charles Bukowski got Frankenstein together in a lightning storm and, you know, he was formed.
00:00.320: Thank you.
00:00.320: One, support Premium Beats.
00:00.320: The thing is, it is about work.
00:00.320: Uh what are some of the big hit things on funnier funnier die you worked on that I might that I might uh know?
00:00.400: Yeah, it was.
00:00.400: I was in film school at the time, and that, you know, visiting his shop was part of the, you know, it was like a field trip, I guess.
00:00.400: on Digital Cinema Cafe and we've been trying to line up the guests for that.
00:00.400: the whole idea of tax credits and subsidies and what it means.
00:00.400: Um but if it but it can also be really bad.
00:00.400: Interesting.
00:00.400: I've kind of been evolving into being more of like what my former boss was, which was the guy who would fix everything when people would start off, you know, with
00:00.400: Like I said, that phrase again, the best of intentions, and not, you know, think that they can do it, and then when they can't, then they call somebody like me.
00:00.400: just works out a lot better for people because, you know, people are, you know, it's starting to get to a point now where people won't want to have somebody that's just
00:00.400: you know, they deserve huge kudos for being able to deal with it and do that.
00:00.400: I was a I was like an assistant editor slash telecinni assistant.
00:00.400: Would have been 99 to 2000 after I left the first place I mentioned.
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: That's my fault, but yeah, I moved folders, you know, out of places I shouldn't have, and I mean, it was just, yeah, horrible.
00:00.400: And boy, did I really feel it then.
00:00.400: Run the circles around what I was able to get done.
00:00.400: You know, a more serious look.
00:00.400: I spent most of my time at the Red Booth demoing Final Cut 10 workflow at NAB and
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: You know, and this is just something I just thought of.
00:00.400: in the case of Creative Cloud as of now, it has to analyze things and it takes quite a while.
00:00.400: You know, or I can't remember the exact words, but he said basically he was saying, Oh yeah, we saw that on Apple, and we thought, Yeah, it's a good idea, we should do that.
00:00.400: I don't really have to worry about that because as long as the $300 that I spent on the software does those things, then
00:00.400: and re examine some of our workflow issues, we will find that there are ways that we can work where we won't we would never have to do those kind of I match things again.
00:00.400: sometimes the way that feels the fastest is the way that you choose.
00:00.400: the people come for you know, they come after the tools that they've been used to using for so long.
00:00.400: not have to stay late all the time.
00:00.400: two years left of support.
00:00.400: You know, let myself out the back door.
00:00.400: Okay, so if you're if you're having a discussion with somebody who is working in a bigger facility, who is not using Final Cut 10, and that person comes to you and he says
00:00.400: Dude, how do I explain it to my boss?
00:00.400: That's a big cost savings that it's a lot easier to train somebody in this than anything else.
00:00.400: better in the same amount of time.
00:00.400: And quite often, I hate to say it, working for people that don't know how to make a decision.
00:00.400: You know, they're talking about things on this level: well, you know, at digital, they just shoot a lot more bad takes and crap and waste more time, and film, you really have to, you know.
00:00.400: like what a film festival was is now YouTube in some ways.
00:00.400: It has democratized it to the point where anybody can show something to anybody in the world.
00:00.400: Everything, you know, wasn't exactly like, you know, you're bringing up something.
00:00.400: Okay, so when you move a project from drive A to drive B and you go to open it, you have to relink everything.
00:00.400: To all of the media files that are linked to it.
00:00.400: Originally started handling the file structure within the app.
00:00.400: All the documentaries.
00:00.400: That's the big one.
00:00.400: Send him a note on Twitter.
00:00.480: And he was working for FCP Works do and he was demoing in their demo suite.
00:00.480: Premiumbeat.
00:00.480: The best way to integrate your temp files into your full productions.
00:00.480: Um no, but he was he was more of like the you know the post production you know man on the mountain that you you know
00:00.480: Went to when you have problems.
00:00.480: Yeah, like around the 90s is when they had a lot of feature films being made in Minnesota because they had a
00:00.480: Other than giving overall story suggestions, I really have nothing creative to do with them.
00:00.480: There have been things I've seen recently that I never knew anybody would ever even think to do that.
00:00.480: To the application that created it, you know?
00:00.480: Hardware standpoint, what systems have you worked on in your career?
00:00.480: That little like bootleg YouTube video that got leaked where they introduced it.
00:00.480: The keychain format, that was the uh that was the that was what its nickname was back then.
00:00.480: Yeah, it was when I had to go back to Final Cut 7, it was like editing with one hand tied behind my back and wearing a mitten on the other.
00:00.480: specialize in Final Cut 10.
00:00.480: We're not, you know, we're not ashamed to say it.
00:00.480: Yeah, they used to be a lot less fun.
00:00.480: Fast is, I mean, eight hours of footage from the folder into the app, and you're cutting in 15 seconds.
00:00.480: Yeah, because I mean I'd really be interested in knowing more about that, but you know it's it's one of those things where
00:00.480: Just because it feels faster, it isn't.
00:00.480: Take you literally a fraction of the amount of time.
00:00.480: Being EOL'd today.
00:00.480: And somebody that's used to a particular 3D animation app, it is like multiplied by a hundred.
00:00.480: Just because you did it this way for the last ten years doesn't mean it's the best way.
00:00.480: Quote unquote end of EOL'd when Final Cut 10 came out, which just really isn't true because it still runs on the 12 Core Mac Pro that we have.
00:00.480: you know, want to help somebody, you know, and if they're not asking for the help or they're not even curious, it's really, you know, not going to do a whole lot of good.
00:00.480: In San Francisco, there was an editor who created an MOV that filled his desktop with a random timeline.
00:00.480: And if we look at how we work today versus how we used to work twenty years ago, and granted, there's a lot of kids that are young enough that they didn't have a job twenty years ago, I understand.
00:00.480: You know, that's to me saving time is always more valuable to me than trying to save money.
00:00.480: Is that people don't really want to see, you know, the you know, if they see themselves as the man behind the curtain and Wizard of Oz, and then everybody can actually do the
00:00.480: Most people can cut on an avid 'cause you have to think about what you're going to do.
00:00.480: trying to pre-imagine it.
00:00.480: You know, I'm glad that more people are making digital shorts or whatever you want to call them.
00:00.480: And he does a bunch of stop-motion stuff.
00:00.480: And so I look at stuff like that, and this is a guy with well over 100 million views collectively on his YouTube channel.
00:00.480: Yeah.
00:00.480: That was how I turned and burned those.
00:00.480: four second long shot and that would be it no slights nothing because that wasted film exactly and and now I don't have to worry about those things but there's still like the habits that
00:00.480: you know, Final Cut 10 of whatever the next incremental release, you know, pre-release discussion.
00:00.480: that they would love it if we get the message out to tell people, please use the the feature request
00:00.480: Use that thing because there are people whose only job is to read that and to sort and collate and report on those feature requests.
00:00.480: Slash graphics slash awesome picture.
00:00.480: Because I direct comedy shorts and things like that, I'm really reluctant to actually.
00:00.560: And I think you're going to dig that stuff.
00:00.560: Put together that much computer hardware.
00:00.560: When I realized you could actually do that for a living, I was okay, sign me up for that.
00:00.560: Well, it was really like a sound mixing house, but the guy I worked for did everything.
00:00.560: I think it's almost like the less you know, the higher up you can get in some ways.
00:00.560: That really kind of jump-started me realizing that you could actually make a living at this.
00:00.560: So, just, you know, kind of a one-man band type person.
00:00.560: You know, it's really interesting, I think, that when you know Hollywood people start picketing and complaining about
00:00.560: Start climbing, you know, be patient, one step at a time.
00:00.560: Right.
00:00.560: Over, you know, staring at a screen, and they have to sit in the couch and tell them what to do.
00:00.560: Updates by that point.
00:00.560: Myself now.
00:00.560: It was, you know, cut it in seven and export the timeline and go into the After Effects and Keynote or Keylight, whatever.
00:00.560: You know?
00:00.560: Especially the little mini ones that go in the audio recorders.
00:00.560: And so, um, he's like, Yeah.
00:00.560: Right in.
00:00.560: Was in Final Cut 10 that just getting it into the app is drag and drop and it's quick.
00:00.560: Frankly, infuriating because it doesn't have to be that way.
00:00.560: It's one of the oldest and most mature 3D animation apps.
00:00.560: How do you approach the conversations when you see somebody who could benefit from Final Fit 10?
00:00.560: You know, it's hard to say without sounding like I'm a cult recruiter or something.
00:00.560: That just wonder why in the hell do I even like it at all?
00:00.560: The way they, you know, feel like they have to do it that way, you know, because that's just what they're used to.
00:00.560: Yeah, no, I'm I think that I think that the um I think that the there is a promise.
00:00.560: I'm gonna I'm gonna uh let me let me find a guy's name here because I spent about a half hour today.
00:00.560: Okay?
00:00.560: 3,000 or 4,000, I guess.
00:00.560: But there's a lot more books, you know, that were being written in the 80s, but there just weren't, you know, there wasn't like an influx of better ones necessarily.
00:00.560: So I kind of, you know, it's kind of the same thing.
00:00.560: I didn't edit in camera, but I definitely knew how long I would ever use a shot for.
00:00.560: Looking at the future, there's anybody can do this.
00:00.560: pretty happy with kind of where it's at right now.
00:00.640: You know, I just had always been making little dumb short films with my friends when I was a kid.
00:00.640: And when I met him, and he was super arrogant but super intelligent, and I said, I want to work for this guy.
00:00.640: Dennis O'Rourke.
00:00.640: And it has been a big deal like in the VFX community.
00:00.640: And, you know, helping them avoid making costly mistakes.
00:00.640: I have.
00:00.640: A Final Cut classic editor?
00:00.640: That's true.
00:00.640: Totally understand.
00:00.640: it does boggle my mind that it it all the excuses are kind of gone now.
00:00.640: There are a lot of workflow things that we do or have done in the past.
00:00.640: They'll render a new version of something, and because they were kind of casual, I will say, with the
00:00.640: Between After Effects and Final Cut 10, and showing how, in my workflow, that if you do things a certain way,
00:00.640: Yeah, it is um it is pretty it's challenging for me to um get into discussions with people where
00:00.640: Where, I mean, I will just say, I look at some people, and there's a certain point where I just say, you know what, you're really happy where you are, and I'm just going to
00:00.640: If you wanted to make a film in the 90s, you better have an editor who knew how to use a chem, you know, an eight-plate flatbed editor.
00:00.640: But peop but now, I mean, anybody can edit.
00:00.640: and a ten minute render bar on his Avid.
00:00.640: They're almost like reading off their own internal script.
00:00.640: I mean that 2006 changed everything.
00:00.640: Are kind of in my brain now.
00:00.640: It it is, um we're in a very interesting time now, which is
00:00.640: Is it disproportionate pictures?
00:00.640: Wish that they would give has actually been semi-addressed by somebody, some genius.
00:00.640: Is what I would call the difference between an absolute and a relative path structure.
00:00.640: That does um affect what I do.
00:00.720: So much so that they have asked me to do a series of tutorials.
00:00.720: Wow.
00:00.720: Gosh, see.
00:00.720: to LA.
00:00.720: Yeah, it's true.
00:00.720: You know, my personal work, which, you know, I direct short films and done a lot of music videos over the years.
00:00.720: I've seen many a Premiere demo where they speak very candidly about being able to drag in native R3D files into their timeline.
00:00.720: What is the difference between the way the Mercury playback engine works and Apple's A V Foundation works?
00:00.720: Accusation.
00:00.720: dropping them into my time line.
00:00.720: you know, they will literally say, well, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
00:00.720: But yeah, I got accused of something like that just the other day.
00:00.720: And there is that push-pull because you used to have to like wait a day for all the renders to happen ten years ago.
00:00.720: And if we look at what nonlinear editing was going to do for us, if we go back 25 years in the beginning of the AVID,
00:00.720: Technical stuff.
00:00.720: Craft that you would if you were shooting film.
00:00.720: Nearly two million views in four years.
00:00.720: change, you know, like the level of quality I could deliver on my personal work because I was able to shoot a lot more without it costing me money.
00:00.720: you know, a project file, and now we have libraries.
00:00.720: No, uh I actually have not really formulated my thought on that, and I will do that by the next episode.
00:00.720: Darren, I'm going to let you go.
00:00.800: Um, he was well, you know, it's it's funny because, you know, I had this um it's a very Midwestern way of looking at things, which is, you know, if you want to be a filmmaker, you better learn
00:00.800: So 2008.
00:00.800: I don't know.
00:00.800: That was my biggest beef when we went from, you know, beta sp to D V is like the label was too small to actually write anything on it.
00:00.800: Couldn't believe it.
00:00.800: They were just, you know, a lot of the people that came up at night, you know, did the demo and showed them how fast you could actually get editing Red Epic footage in Final Cut 10, it blew their minds.
00:00.800: What do you, Darren, what do you say when when you're having those conversations with people?
00:00.800: Just completely irrational, but yet they're right too, you know.
00:00.800: This was fairly well viewed a while back.
00:00.800: And I don't know, and again, Patrick, if you are listening to this, I don't know if you will, but if you
00:00.800: Which is this little kid doing kung fu against this walking dragon stuffed toy?
00:00.880: That's that.
00:00.880: Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday, that would have been Darren.
00:00.880: In Minnesota.
00:00.880: Well, I mean, I guess this segues nicely into the other topic, which is Final Cat 10.
00:00.880: It's astonishing how well it works.
00:00.880: So most people, if they saw that I was using Final Cut 10, some of them would do the whole, oh, are you using Final Cut 10?
00:00.880: You're under the gun, and you just, and I quote, have to get it done.
00:00.880: Well, it really comes down to if you're training in somebody that hasn't edited before
00:00.880: Okay, yeah.
00:00.880: Please don't.
00:00.880: Not usually.
00:00.880: I didn't have to buy film because like my first music videos, I would do a music video shot on film for a thousand bucks.
00:00.880: And they kind of fixed it.
00:00.960: People understand just your background in this business.
00:00.960: You mentioned the ChromaKear was very powerful, and it editing green screen at the same speed of just cutting normal footage.
00:00.960: Gang sync.
00:00.960: So, I don't know.
00:00.960: It really is like that should be the goal.
00:00.960: Tons of big, huge filmmakers like Soderbergh and George Lucas.
00:00.960: I will tell you that the image that I want you to look at is at you know chrisvanderwick.
00:00.960: Through all of them.
00:01.040: Actually, I took a freelance editing gig on a big kind of like infotainment documentary thing.
00:01.040: Yeah, exactly.
00:01.040: For me.
00:01.040: But I think, and this is my own theory, that Fanuka Ten is kind to me.
00:01.040: Did you ever see that film side by side?
00:01.040: At this point.
00:01.040: Not quite.
00:01.040: That actually made an app.
00:01.120: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Funnel Cut Grill.
00:01.120: Okay, well, we'll get to that, and I want to talk about all the stuff that you were setting up there and the things that you guys were demoing.
00:01.120: But you chose to move to LA right, you know, as the strike was getting, you know,
00:01.120: Why would you even, you know, like if they're at least that curious, sometimes I can still at least, you know, have them give it a shot.
00:01.120: It does a big editor.
00:01.120: just facilitates making lots of bad decisions quicker.
00:01.120: I know that there's a few little bugs that I'm dealing with.
00:01.120: Yeah, asking, you know, having people ask me.
00:01.120: That was fun.
00:01.200: This is the bomber trick about how to swap that music out literally in seconds, regardless of any fades you've done, regardless of any EQ adjustments you've done.
00:01.200: How did we meet?
00:01.200: Because it's a lot easier for me to work in that capacity with people than editing somebody else's footage.
00:01.200: Because, you know, it's it's interesting that when I made that decision to specialize in
00:01.200: And then when you actually get up to the plate, yeah, it it's it's kind of like that.
00:01.200: And yeah.
00:01.200: Gotcha, gotcha.
00:01.200: The ones that are furthest away from the being open-minded, but still have a little bit of open-mindedness, are the ones
00:01.200: Maybe the people that can make Mac Pros like also might be able to make an editing software again and knock it out of the park, you know.
00:01.200: If you're just looking at the bottom line as a business, you probably want people to be able to get their job done
00:01.200: I mean, there's all kinds of things that people just take for granted now.
00:01.280: And I'm like, well, it's probably going to be easier to make less money in Los Angeles.
00:01.280: So that's a film film bed editor thing.
00:01.280: What were those things where it just like blew your mind and you're like, ugh, why isn't everybody using this?
00:01.280: You know, it's funny.
00:01.280: It's for, you know, inserting special effect shots and composites without, you know.
00:01.280: Right.
00:01.280: jpg, okay?
00:01.360: But it's it again, like I said, it's a topic that we're going to do on an upcoming episode of Digital Cinema Cafe.
00:01.360: eventually one of a one of these bad decisions will actually yield or after d taking all these bad decisions will actually yield a somewhat acceptable
00:01.360: And it's made by a guy named let me get his name for you Patrick Balvin, B-O-L-V-I-N.
00:01.440: And he lost all his time code.
00:01.440: Yeah.
00:01.440: The big barrier was the fact you had to own all this equipment and know how to use it, keep it maintained.
00:01.440: Now, any client that's waiting for a render is a client you're probably not going to have anymore.
00:01.440: And the Avids started becoming affordable and then Final Cut came out and you know they would the the one guy would say, he's like, I can cut faster on a chem than
00:01.520: And he's like, Okay, fine, come at ten So yeah, I think you guys were still wiring things when I walked in.
00:01.520: Okay, I got you.
00:01.520: Okay, so let's get into Final Cut 10 then.
00:01.520: Exactly.
00:01.520: But what it comes down to for me is it really is.
00:01.520: I need to see it.
00:01.600: Okay.
00:01.600: Oh, it's not like the mid the mid-aughts or whatever you call them.
00:01.600: Because New York, I mean, I I realized, you know, I'm working I started working suddenly with people that worked on Saturday Night Live that were just desperate to try to get work.
00:01.600: You know what?
00:01.600: Maybe the thing, maybe, you know what?
00:01.600: Well, that's good.
00:01.600: It is the content explosion, but it it's it's like when word processors, you know, became essentially free with purchase of any computer, you know
00:01.600: There's been no more great novels written as a result.
00:01.600: I think that makes perfect sense.
00:01.600: Like if I hold down the control key, that means give me more control.
00:01.680: com for sponsoring the show and supporting what we're doing here because they believe in Final Cut 10.
00:01.680: But Are you you wait, are you saying that you were wrong in terms of the need to understand everybody's job?
00:01.680: Well, if you're going to shake the tree, you might as well get as close to the roots as possible.
00:01.680: If you want to do soap operas, you might want to go to New York.
00:01.680: I'm going to ask you a question.
00:01.680: I mean, there's really nothing I can't, you know, I can't think of anything that it can't do with the exception of, you know.
00:01.680: That's a whole other argument, which is, you know, it really is like the playing field is now finally leveled to the point where
00:01.680: That's the only thing I miss about it.
00:01.680: When they get changed from one version of Final Cut 10 to the next, the timing changes and then they go offline and there is no good way to actually relink them.
00:01.760: If I have to do anything or actually fix anything, then that's how I know I failed at that point.
00:01.760: And it works really well in documentaries.
00:01.760: And you were scrubbing through the actual red footage at that point?
00:01.760: Because deadlines, you know, they just keep getting quicker, it seems.
00:01.760: Because, okay, I got you.
00:01.760: I mean, yeah, I mean, regardless of how easy the tool is to operate, a good editor will still be faster than a bad editor.
00:01.760: Yep.
00:01.760: Hey, Darren, if people are trying to find you online, what's the best way to hook up with you?
00:01.760: We will be back.
00:01.840: Really?
00:01.840: But, you know, what's interesting is a lot of people I knew in New York now live here.
00:01.840: I haven't touched Avid pretty much in, I don't know, ten years as far as using it.
00:01.840: Gotcha.
00:01.840: And now we're dealing with SD cards, which is just a joke.
00:01.840: I can't speak to that not because I don't want to.
00:01.840: And I will be the first to say that I get accused on occasion of coming off coming across like an Apple fanboy and a Final Cut fanboy, and I can understand that.
00:01.840: I'm just speaking out of ignorance, as I always do.
00:01.840: You know, that's a tough question because I was on fcp.
00:01.840: To me, it's just a different side of it.
00:01.920: He passed away about seven years ago, sadly.
00:01.920: This stuff does not work.
00:01.920: I am actually keeping a list in case I ever do run into a guy and he goes, hey, what feature do you want?
00:01.920: One of them has been edited in every version of Final Cut since like 10.
00:02.000: I think I met you for the first time at the FCP Works suite, the demo suite.
00:02.000: Darren, the answer is by car, plane, or bus.
00:02.000: It's uh it is interesting though how how stubborn people get though when
00:02.000: You know?
00:02.000: Okay, so and this hearkens to web development.
00:02.000: I know you're not feeling well, and I hope you feel better.
00:02.000: Take care.
00:02.080: And so, in the grand scheme of things, was he a filmmaker or was it video production?
00:02.080: That was, you know, pretty unbelievable.
00:02.080: That's true.
00:02.080: And I was just like, ugh, I don't want to do this.
00:02.080: Just like the name of the company.
00:02.080: We'll be able to make decisions quicker.
00:02.080: And I think that there is an upside to having a kid sit down at his laptop.
00:02.080: And I know that that stuff is happening.
00:02.080: 0.
00:02.160: So yeah, that's and then they were like, Damn, we pay we obviously pay you too much too, so it didn't go so well.
00:02.160: I mean that to me though, I mean, which you asked earlier about why aren't more people using this is
00:02.160: I'll be right back.
00:02.240: Before we get going, I want to mention and I want to thank from the bottom of my heart the people at Premium Beats.
00:02.240: I mean, that's that to me, it's like it, that is the day it really changed.
00:02.320: Interesting.
00:02.320: That's a really powerful thing.
00:02.320: Yeah.
00:02.320: Can't do that.
00:02.320: That's the real interesting thing, though, with the whole debate.
00:02.320: You can get it on iTunes, but it's about people
00:02.400: So, if you've ever been in a situation where you're like, you're done with your edit and you go, oh, wait, the watermark is still there.
00:02.400: And so now films that were written and set there now are shot in Detroit or wherever else.
00:02.400: So, at any rate, we won't get into the politics of all of that.
00:02.400: Yeah, you know what?
00:02.400: It's like Jurassic Park, you know, just because you can do it doesn't mean you necessarily should.
00:02.400: And those are the ones that I directed that I actually put on the front page.
00:02.480: And he was, you know, he was amazing.
00:02.480: It's like, oh, I get that.
00:02.480: What was interesting is these are all people that came to see the Red Booth.
00:02.480: Yeah.
00:02.480: I mean, that to me should be enough of a motivator, but people get very stubborn when
00:02.480: That room was very expensive.
00:02.480: So I don't know.
00:02.480: Let's just leave it there.
00:02.560: And Premium Beats is going to put that on their website.
00:02.560: But but invariably there are excuse me, invariably there are revisions and iterations that happen.
00:02.560: And you know, actually, I get into this a little bit on one of the tutorials I did on my website about, I call it the poor man's dynamic link.
00:02.560: They've been great to me, and I want all of us to support them.
00:02.640: Okay, so that's really interesting.
00:02.640: This is just standard workflow things.
00:02.640: That doesn't make you an editor.
00:02.640: Right.
00:02.640: 3 and then changed again in 10.
00:02.720: I'm like, I'm buying that camera.
00:02.800: So if you went by the Red Booth and saw some guy over there with a crowd of people around him showing off Final Cut 10 and how you could ingest media.
00:02.800: Nice to have met you in person.
00:02.800: Yeah, but I'll oasis of sanity.
00:02.800: Yeah, it's great.
00:02.800: Oh, yeah.
00:02.800: I've never even thought to verbalize this.
00:02.800: But it's interesting to consider, though, the difference in changing an editing program.
00:02.800: Right.
00:02.800: 264 when it the stability wasn't there yeah and you get glitches and you have to
00:02.800: Nonlinear editing on a computer is uh it didn't help people make decisions faster.
00:02.800: What day is today?
00:02.880: And let me think, two updates would be 10.
00:02.880: Somebody said to me a few months ago, he goes, I don't care how it works so long as it keeps working.
00:02.880: That is an absolute address.
00:02.960: So and then prior and then after that you did um and and again the whole point of this is I'm trying to figure out where you came from.
00:02.960: But I just was you know, I had done plenty of green screen work with, you know, the Media 100 and
00:02.960: You know, what what are the things that I need to show my boss so they'll come around?
00:02.960: And then and then, like a million monkeys on a million typewriters, one of them eventually is going to type Shakespeare.
00:02.960: And if you go to Patrick Bolvin on the YouTube channel thing
00:02.960: Yep.
00:02.960: Yeah, I see what you're saying.
00:02.960: I remember.
00:02.960: And it has wreaked havoc on this project file.
00:03.040: Yeah, and you know, and if people don't know about this, I would really recommend you you delve a little into the um
00:03.040: And it's like, okay, we need to talk.
00:03.040: That's the only thing.
00:03.040: Wow.
00:03.120: And if you want to cut this out because you don't want to answer this, that's totally fine.
00:03.120: It's sloppy operating.
00:03.120: I guess.
00:03.120: I can move it from here to there or here to there, whatever.
00:03.200: Did you?
00:03.200: And boy, it was, you know, a lot to get my head around, but after I did, you know.
00:03.200: And that that was when, you know, because had I been on Final Cut 10 on this job, I would have been able to
00:03.200: I'll say that.
00:03.200: But still, it's just it is.
00:03.200: You know, I mean, well, how do you, how do you come?
00:03.200: Yeah, no, I actually, there's a rather famous story, and I've
00:03.200: Oh no, I don't know this one.
00:03.200: Yeah, if they just like, you know, you you have a little you know, like the break glass in case of emergency.
00:03.280: And you should be able to follow all of those steps.
00:03.280: And I just dragged in the folders and boom, within fifteen seconds, and their jaws dropped.
00:03.280: Yeah.
00:03.280: Yeah.
00:03.280: Right.
00:03.280: What would you want to have?
00:03.280: But it would be to actually be able to relink files if
00:03.280: jpg.
00:03.280: So, and you know, it's been amazing.
00:03.360: And he would go out and have a smoke.
00:03.360: That's how many they get every year.
00:03.440: Nobody really foresaw the future impact on how this would actually affect anything.
00:03.440: You make movies and TV shows.
00:03.440: Actually, you know what?
00:03.440: Okay, so let's get this back on track.
00:03.440: Right.
00:03.440: So, but the promise was that these computers are going to make our life better.
00:03.440: Right.
00:03.520: Here all the managers, all the everybody live here, they have offices in New York, but that's not where they make everything happen.
00:03.520: Right.
00:03.520: I mean, that's that's that to me, right there is.
00:03.520: It was called At At Day Afternoon.
00:03.600: We call it skimming and and it was it was it was actually pretty funny the way he did it It was actually pretty funny the way he did it he
00:03.600: That's an interesting topic.
00:03.600: Premiere, I'm sure it matters with it it makes sense with Avid, and it certainly makes sense with Final Cut 10.
00:03.600: Anyway, so I'm just rambling here, but it has a lot to do with this sort of concept of
00:03.600: And then, and actually, what's more interesting than the piece is to watch his making of and how simple some of the effects that he did were.
00:03.680: So there's a whole big brouhaha in that.
00:03.680: Well, the the only thing I miss about rendering is it was the only time I could ever justify taking a lunch break, you know
00:03.680: Right, but I think there, I mean, there's certainly something to that.
00:03.680: Okay, I remember.
00:03.680: It's in a reli assuming you're using some sort of a job folder, which I do.
00:03.680: Right.
00:03.680: I don't even know.
00:03.760: Yeah, it's really hard for a you know, I know myself, and I don't do documentaries, I don't do features, I don't do television programming.
00:03.760: Oh, yeah.
00:03.760: When did you first start looking at it slash using it?
00:03.760: I mean, to literally not have to even do anything.
00:03.760: And it's interesting when you have those conversations where people
00:03.760: And some of them got good, and other ones didn't, but it didn't matter because they just had people over their shoulders telling them exactly where they wanted to cut.
00:03.760: No.
00:03.760: Like the things I've done, the things I've done for Funnier Die, I wouldn't recommend anybody watch them at work.
00:03.840: Because anybody who does one revision of something is probably going to have to do two or three.
00:03.840: And now anybody can do it and so now it's not as special, but I think that could ultimately be a good thing.
00:03.840: I don't necessarily know that I I can't think of like, I literally can't think of anything I would need it to do
00:03.920: I don't mean to ruin everything for you, but it's, you know, I mean, I remember when that happened, and there was a whole lot of picketing and a lot of.
00:03.920: I talk about that.
00:04.000: That was I crashed the party.
00:04.000: So it's it's not a slam dunk either way, I don't think.
00:04.000: I'm totally amazed by it.
00:04.000: You missed all the fun then.
00:04.000: It's a good name.
00:04.000: Right, right, right.
00:04.000: Because you can always get money again.
00:04.000: Whereas the film people, it's just this romanticized, you know, fairy dust and magic kind of, you know.
00:04.000: Are you on Twitter or Facebook or anything like that?
00:04.000: Let me ask you this, and I don't, you know, a bad interviewer.
00:04.080: Hey, my name is Chris Fenwick, and this is episode 041.
00:04.080: So, are you seeing people approach you guys who are kind of on that fence, like, okay, we've heard.
00:04.080: But because his argument was, well, it's all in your head and you have to creatively think things through.
00:04.160: The oasis of sanity.
00:04.160: Oh, yeah.
00:04.160: So perspective.
00:04.160: I didn't have that feeling until I had to go back to Final Cut 7 and work on something.
00:04.160: But whatever.
00:04.160: Yeah, one of the one of the guys I used to work for when I was an actual like assistant to on film editing
00:04.160: Here's a guy that's had I mean, you know, he's got some cloud out there.
00:04.160: Okay, it doesn't need to have the preamble, so to speak, or the entire URL.
00:04.240: I never, I totally avoided DV.
00:04.240: I think that's the thing that's really frustrating.
00:04.240: What is that?
00:04.240: Because it would be two rolls of 16, and I would have to, you know, map out all the shots that I did.
00:04.240: And so just do what I ask.
00:04.240: It's one of the 800 or 900 people.
00:04.240: It's Thursday night, Friday.
00:04.320: So I contacted him.
00:04.320: How did you get started in this business?
00:04.320: That's where I I mean, what was funny is I was um I worked at a post house in
00:04.320: I understand why we're shooting on DV.
00:04.400: Now, I've submitted the first one.
00:04.400: But it's really hard to change ladders midstream.
00:04.400: Really older people?
00:04.400: There's a good side to that.
00:04.400: So if Final Cut 10's database had relative paths as opposed to absolute paths that said,
00:04.480: Oh, yeah.
00:04.480: But that's a whole nother topic.
00:04.480: You know, I know that I remember watching him demo the Creative Cloud last year.
00:04.480: We'll be able to, you know, it's not the end of the world if you want to add a shot in the first five minutes and ripple everything down.
00:04.480: What I mean, if you've answered this on other shows, I mean.
00:04.480: Right, right.
00:04.480: He's on Kroll Show on Comedy Central.
00:04.480: So that was Darren.
00:04.560: It hadn't really occurred to me.
00:04.560: Oh, yeah, I've seen those.
00:04.640: Like I come in when I'm needed, I check in on things and
00:04.640: I will ask this to the audience.
00:04.640: And all the digital people, they hall have the same arguments and praise for it
00:04.640: There's the audio EQ bug which is bugging me like crazy.
00:04.720: Now as you climb up those ladders, you get three, four, five rungs up.
00:04.720: No trail of breadcrumbs.
00:04.720: And a lot of them, too.
00:04.720: And now, like, there's this whole movement afoot, if you will, where people are, you know, more and more, they're starting to give it.
00:04.720: And you didn't just let some kid say, Hey, I got some ideas.
00:04.720: Oh, you have a feature?
00:04.800: But yeah, I've been I kinda never look back once I
00:04.800: Yeah, it really does come it has to always come from a place of sincerity.
00:04.800: Sometime in the future, when you're feeling better, let's do this again.
00:04.800: There's a little place where you can leave comments and stars.
00:04.880: I mean, it was just, yeah, it's a little, you know, and you're in Vegas at the same time.
00:04.880: I mean, there's there's if you want to work on Broadway, you got to be in New York.
00:04.880: But the promise that the comp these computer boxes were going to make our life easier is has by and large been a lie.
00:04.880: He might be a world-class stop-motion artist that works on major Hollywood films and he does these things for fun.
00:04.880: It's just going to be a normal thing.
00:04.960: Explain explain what you're saying there.
00:04.960: I've never used that phrase, but any file in a timeline, there should be a way to trace it back to the
00:04.960: And then all these people in Minneapolis ran out and bought an Avid and were like, I'm an editor now.
00:04.960: Well, actually, it could be as bad as saying, no, you know how to buy an avid.
00:05.040: How hard could your life be?
00:05.040: I didn't even have to think about it anymore.
00:05.040: I would love to talk about that someday.
00:05.040: But yeah, I mean, it's the same thing with like digital now replacing film, which
00:05.040: Yeah, he's uh I forget his name, um his actual name, but uh
00:05.040: It starts with the www.
00:05.120: No, I'm kidding.
00:05.120: Just everybody can make a movie.
00:05.120: And it really did
00:05.200: So when I know for certain that it's there, I'll probably tweet it over the show Twitter account.
00:05.200: I would think that would be the time to be getting out of Hollywood.
00:05.200: But yet I'm still serving a, you know, useful purpose.
00:05.200: Now, I know that you're doing some work with FCP Works.
00:05.200: It's like the same argument that, you know, Final Cut 7 was
00:05.200: It's really weird.
00:05.200: Right.
00:05.280: I said, hey, come be on the show.
00:05.280: I got a tweet just, I think it was this morning from Mark Bach, who I interviewed on the last show.
00:05.280: I just don't completely know under the hood how those things work.
00:05.280: So they want to, well, can you just, why don't you just make me all four versions?
00:05.360: So, um, you did the funnier die pieces.
00:05.360: Oh, yeah.
00:05.360: And I almost hope that he isn't.
00:05.440: 02 fixes issues in which the title may revert.
00:05.440: It's can they do it well?
00:05.440: Right.
00:05.440: You know, it has to.
00:05.440: I might have to make up a new Twitter, like on top of the one that I have, because I'm like
00:05.520: And he goes, And look, we can hover scrub, and you can skim through your stuff.
00:05.520: So often, if we would just take a half step back from where we were.
00:05.520: So, you know, there is that.
00:05.520: The whole time we're looking at ourselves going, what are we doing?
00:05.520: One, I guess, actually got in.
00:05.520: I hope you enjoyed our chat.
00:05.520: I really appreciate all of the support and love that we get there.
00:05.600: Hold on, I got to write that down.
00:05.600: What were you doing in New York?
00:05.600: Yeah.
00:05.600: And then they're like, Can I just, I know I can do this.
00:05.600: Yeah, I you know
00:05.600: But there was also the big steep, you know
00:05.600: But if you take a guy like Patrick Baldwin and
00:05.600: And I love that.
00:05.600: That was that was my big last gripe.
00:05.600: I know exactly, come to think of it.
00:05.680: Yeah.
00:05.680: I think that there is, and I've got into a big discussion with a friend of mine today just about this.
00:05.680: Oh, is this the one that Kiano Reed produced?
00:05.760: How you been?
00:05.760: And you lived where in the Midwest?
00:05.760: And then the Writers' Guild strike happened, and a lot of my, you know.
00:05.760: So I guess I made the right call.
00:05.760: Right.
00:05.760: Younger.
00:05.760: There are and I'm just literally scratching the surface.
00:05.760: So, this is the Friday show.
00:05.840: Heard a lot about you, heard the podcast a bunch of times.
00:05.840: I don't know what the process is going to be, if they're going to post that right away.
00:05.840: You know, right.
00:05.840: And he was right up to a point
00:05.840: It's a documentary and it's awesome.
00:05.920: I like that.
00:05.920: But this one group of young filmmakers, I said, okay, well, with what you're using now, I'm not going to say names.
00:05.920: What is this feature you're calling?
00:05.920: And you know, my opinion about that is just whoa
00:05.920: But if you use absolute links, when you move a website from one box to another, you have to change everything and it's ridiculous.
00:05.920: 0.
00:05.920: Now that's very interesting because to me, Twitter is all about work.
00:06.000: So I'm still putting that one back together.
00:06.000: It was just like, this is my preference.
00:06.000: And periodically he would open up that file, play it full screen and turn to the producer and go
00:06.000: Right.
00:06.080: So, then, how did you get from Minneapolis out to Hollywood?
00:06.080: What type of work are you doing these days?
00:06.080: Like, it's going away from that.
00:06.080: So I was like, hmm.
00:06.080: I know.
00:06.080: You know, I have friends that work at Adobe, and I have seen many an Al Mooney demo.
00:06.080: And that promise was, these magic computer boxes will make our life better.
00:06.080: This is three years old now.
00:06.080: I actually have seen some of those.
00:06.080: Except for the fact that, you know, about oh fifteen, fourteen years ago
00:06.080: Right.
00:06.080: When you give somebody a web address
00:06.160: Um, well, gosh, my first nonlinear editor was a Marconi 8-plate.
00:06.160: Right.
00:06.160: And that's to me, it's what was interesting about the film was
00:06.160: com slash Chris Fenwick.
00:06.240: And it's kind of nice because
00:06.240: I actually have one of the listeners has sent me a chart with the dates.
00:06.240: No, no, I did not.
00:06.240: But yeah, I avoided it like the plague for a long, long time.
00:06.240: Well, we're a workflow specialist.
00:06.240: I think there is a bad side, but I believe that the good outweighs the bad.
00:06.240: Okay, so but it but by using um relative links
00:06.320: I had contacted Michael Garber and I said
00:06.320: I'm just going to say to me
00:06.400: And if I look at the way I used to edit green screen shoots, a bunch of talking heads.
00:06.400: And I mean, you know, that's that's the whole thing is, you know, we believe Final Cut 10 works.
00:06.400: Yeah, that's a whole other conversation.
00:06.400: You know, and it was his it was his trick.
00:06.400: And that's all I would shoot.
00:06.400: But very cool.
00:06.400: So if you think of it and you have a little extra time, I want to ask a favor of you.
00:06.400: I love their music, and we're going to talk about them a lot in the future.
00:06.480: He had every piece of equipment and
00:06.480: So I was kind of a floater because I had experience in both.
00:06.480: Whereas if you can key chroma key if you can chroma key DV footage, you can do anything.
00:06.480: It's like tic tacs that have footage on.
00:06.480: And oh, well, don't you want to go home earlier or get more done?
00:06.480: Yeah, exactly.
00:06.480: Yep.
00:06.560: And I was right about that.
00:06.560: I mean, it very is it very much is kind of like 99, 2000, 2001, where people were like
00:06.560: You know?
00:06.560: To sum this up, though, it
00:06.560: 6 and now obviously with 10.
00:06.560: You know, that's that's really
00:06.560: Yeah, just something like that.
00:06.640: I'm just keeping them on track.
00:06.640: It's painful for me to watch people waste their time, you know, doing things
00:06.640: People that didn't have a job.
00:06.640: I just love it.
00:06.640: co and I'm forgetting the gentleman's name that always starts the
00:06.640: Oh, well, I mean, Darren at fcpworks.
00:06.720: And he was like all into that.
00:06.720: So, the guy that you were working for, what was his name?
00:06.720: Yeah, this was in the 90s though when it was
00:06.720: Yeah, yeah.
00:06.720: But it's awesome when they do, you know, and the fact that
00:06.720: There has always been things like, you know, I really wanted to be able to have a centralized
00:06.720: I am on Twitter and I um
00:06.720: So that's cool.
00:06.800: And I was like, that looks pretty cool.
00:06.800: I think for the era of DV, that five or six years, whatever.
00:06.800: And this and honestly, this has nothing to do with Final Cut 10.
00:06.800: And I'm actually working.
00:06.800: com, a relative address says
00:06.800: Yeah, I mean, that would be useful.
00:06.880: It was fun seeing you at the NAB.
00:06.880: And it's
00:06.880: The keychain format.
00:06.880: I wonder if I could get Al Mooney to come and be a guest on this show.
00:06.880: And there's so often
00:06.880: That now everybody can do their job.
00:06.880: I mean, to answer the earlier question, I had some time to actually think of it.
00:06.880: Do they do it well?
00:06.960: Of course, when you look at it from the inside, it is very difficult.
00:06.960: But I still can usually most often fix things.
00:06.960: Yeah, this was a
00:06.960: And I bought the blue and white G3 and final cut and brought it in.
00:06.960: Our 3D Red Epic footage.
00:06.960: And I love that stuff like that happens.
00:06.960: Okay.
00:06.960: Because, you know, I owned an HVX 200 when it came out.
00:06.960: Yeah, so so at any rate
00:06.960: com slash gfx slash
00:07.040: Is that correct?
00:07.040: If you're in that community, it might be good for you.
00:07.040: Yeah, there've definitely been
00:07.040: However, if you would take, again, just a half step back, you would realize that
00:07.040: And yet, we work longer, we are bothered by our bosses more.
00:07.040: Darren, that is the best way of putting it.
00:07.040: So that was very nice of them.
00:07.120: But that's a whole different topic.
00:07.120: I mean, if you go back 20 years and you looked at the guy who was sitting in the big edit suite.
00:07.200: That might be the name of the episode, right in the first sentence.
00:07.200: Okay, so.
00:07.200: But a lot of like I'm working on about three documentaries right now.
00:07.200: Oh, I love that phrase.
00:07.200: And you can, there are ways that you can
00:07.200: How do you God?
00:07.200: Okay, and does that make sense if I say it that way to you?
00:07.200: 0.
00:07.280: So I got one of my first jobs I worked at in the 90s, it was a
00:07.280: Yeah, that's a really controversial topic.
00:07.280: It's really crazy.
00:07.280: And I'm like, yeah.
00:07.280: Oh, they're asking you, they're asking Darren why, yeah.
00:07.280: You can never get time back.
00:07.280: And now there's like
00:07.280: And I'm finally getting rid of all the gremlins.
00:07.280: We're going to have another show for you Monday.
00:07.360: You know.
00:07.360: And I've talked, I've spoken with a lot of people.
00:07.360: Okay.
00:07.360: It's been viewed, well, at least three million times.
00:07.360: And I will say this once again because I have been told by people inside Apple.
00:07.360: Okay.
00:07.360: Uh
00:07.440: And it's some pretty cool tricks, and there's some things that I've been doing for years and years.
00:07.440: But first, I think it's more important that
00:07.440: But since I, you know, after living in New York for a few years and now here, it's um
00:07.440: You know.
00:07.440: But it isn't me, but
00:07.520: Yeah, it's um you know, it's it's quite a big, you know, undertaking to have to
00:07.520: Yeah.
00:07.520: Would it be Richard Taylor?
00:07.600: That's crazy.
00:07.600: But people did it.
00:07.600: We made up a character called Bill Cosby Bukowski.
00:07.680: Oh boy, that's a tough one.
00:07.680: Well, that, you know, that's a that's actually a harder question because I kind of
00:07.680: Okay.
00:07.680: Why did you spend that much money on this?
00:07.680: I kind of like this better now.
00:07.680: XML works amazingly all the pro stuff is
00:07.680: If you're listening and you gave me a cold, you have to apologize.
00:07.680: And then that way more people
00:07.760: Yeah, we used to do 24-hour renders all the time.
00:07.760: Just apply the same discipline and
00:07.760: Whereas if you made films when I was a kid, that was like
00:07.840: And
00:07.840: You know, when I was at
00:07.840: What it is, is it's the way you know how to do it right now.
00:07.840: I had somebody say that to me.
00:07.840: And they don't want to think that maybe
00:07.840: And at at Day Afternoon is a guy who's shooting with, I think he shot it with a DSLR.
00:07.840: So, yeah, I know who he is.
00:07.840: But
00:07.840: 1.
00:07.920: So.
00:07.920: And that just kind of, you know, it's really kind of surprising because I was one of the first of
00:07.920: That also can be seen as a bad thing.
00:07.920: And that's to me, that's
00:07.920: Gotcha.
00:07.920: Darren had told me after we stopped the recording, he said, yeah, kind of on a little bit of medication.
00:08.000: Yes.
00:08.000: It's well, you know, it's
00:08.000: I shy away from 3D.
00:08.000: But, I mean, they they have like
00:08.000: Um he made a piece called
00:08.080: So it's a couple of tutorials, and I love premium beads.
00:08.080: Right.
00:08.080: And it hasn't been.
00:08.080: So, anyway, what's the point?
00:08.080: I did not realize.
00:08.160: It it's just more
00:08.160: We've been trying to do we have a whole show we're going to do about that.
00:08.160: Yeah.
00:08.160: But
00:08.160: I would shoot a couple takes of.
00:08.160: 1 I was
00:08.160: I actually now have a list in my phone, and the number one thing on my list, I had forgotten I made that list.
00:08.240: You just drag it on.
00:08.240: Help me out here.
00:08.240: It's the same thing with film.
00:08.240: You know what?
00:08.320: And they had heard him on the podcast.
00:08.320: I'm going to just go on a funnel little mini rant here.
00:08.320: What kind of advice do you give people?
00:08.320: He did a thing called Iron Baby, which is a takeoff of Iron Man with his.
00:08.320: But that's that's the big gripe, and that's that's really the one thing.
00:08.400: So I did, and he was kind of like grad school.
00:08.400: Yeah, yeah.
00:08.400: Yeah, I mean, if you have a good plate that somebody has shot with a nice background.
00:08.400: And when you have to get it done,
00:08.400: And I don't know if you heard about soft homage
00:08.400: Really?
00:08.400: That did pretty like a couple of those did pretty well.
00:08.480: He also got tapped
00:08.560: Yeah.
00:08.560: It's really difficult to step across.
00:08.560: I mean, if you want to make feature films, you might want to go to
00:08.560: It's it's just uh it's just such a nightmare for me.
00:08.560: You know, when you swing two bats to make it
00:08.560: It just
00:08.560: I mean, you know, it's interesting that, you know, the
00:08.640: And this evening, we're going to talk with Darren Rourke.
00:08.640: You know, that guy in the background going, premiumbeats.
00:08.640: Um
00:08.640: Crazy.
00:08.640: And I don't know, it.
00:08.640: Actually, wait, YouTube will tell me that somewhere.
00:08.720: Way back.
00:08.720: I don't know, I've never heard that term.
00:08.720: Can I just, you know, I'll bring it, I'll even bring in my own computer if you let me.
00:08.720: Yeah.
00:08.720: I don't even know what I'm trying to say here.
00:08.720: That's the one.
00:08.800: First day it came out.
00:08.880: So
00:08.880: You much more eloquently said exactly what I was trying to say.
00:08.880: Yeah, this is what I've read.
00:08.960: They were.
00:08.960: And this is true for our business as well as any others.
00:08.960: But it's just not true.
00:08.960: That library file has the same relative path.
00:09.040: Yeah, that's interesting.
00:09.040: Okay.
00:09.040: So you can lock them.
00:09.040: So
00:09.040: Right.
00:09.040: Okay.
00:09.120: Whereas
00:09.120: You might spend a little bit more time now.
00:09.120: That's why I'm a huge fan of YouTube.
00:09.120: What I'm kind of talking about is, like, for example, on
00:09.200: Minneapolis.
00:09.200: And the reason it hasn't been is that we've been given so many options
00:09.280: So I came to LA.
00:09.280: Well, it kind of is divided into
00:09.280: I have a film where the
00:09.280: And
00:09.280: Yeah, he did that one.
00:09.360: I don't even know why I would care about Softimage.
00:09.360: Not that he didn't probably didn't have plenty of things that he actually did need to render, but
00:09.360: Don't put me on the spot like that because I'm the guy who asked the questions.
00:09.440: But find the ladder that you want to climb and
00:09.440: And I hated it at first.
00:09.440: So I put it down for a few months, and then
00:09.440: Very, very valuable tic tacs.
00:09.440: Yes.
00:09.440: Right.
00:09.440: We have been promised something when it came to computers.
00:09.520: I mean,
00:09.520: So whatever oh, yeah, me too.
00:09.520: Cause I need
00:09.520: I'll say this: I'm working so much less, I can produce three hours of podcasts a week.
00:09.520: It's just the cream does rise to the top.
00:09.520: Yeah.
00:09.520: Darren, we will talk again.
00:09.600: So you've cut on Avid.
00:09.600: Take care, and we will be back then.
00:09.680: How would you classify that experience for you?
00:09.680: Right.
00:09.680: You know, this is like a joke.
00:09.680: Can you let me add that thing?
00:09.760: And they've since stopped it.
00:09.760: And the guys that
00:09.760: What are the pros and cons on those two fronts?
00:09.760: He's got a lot of people looking at his work.
00:09.840: Okay, so now from an edit.
00:09.840: Oh, we pay you enough that you can buy your own edit system?
00:09.840: Right.
00:09.920: Like even the Fargo T V show is now
00:09.920: Right.
00:09.920: I mean, I guess there was that
00:09.920: I love having those conversations with people now.
00:09.920: There's obviously stuff about the cloud.
00:09.920: Gotcha, gotcha.
00:09.920: And those particular files.
00:10.000: Were you a
00:10.080: You know, just fine.
00:10.080: Right.
00:10.080: And so it's been upgraded.
00:10.080: Interesting.
00:10.160: Okay.
00:10.160: He does the interviewing.
00:10.240: Okay?
00:10.240: com is my email address.
00:10.240: So it that was still work, though.
00:10.240: I knew you mentioned Funny or Die.
00:10.320: What was your logic there?
00:10.320: Because of the size of the tape.
00:10.320: And
00:10.320: 1 completely different again.
00:10.400: So that's kind of
00:10.400: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:10.400: I won't say the exact words of what he said to me.
00:10.400: That's ultimately.
00:10.400: The feature requests that I would
00:10.560: But there's a couple of tutorials coming about
00:10.560: And like, I find that kind of stuff
00:10.640: You might actually have to go backwards, cross over, and then go back up.
00:10.640: And as far as editing,
00:10.640: Right, right, right.
00:10.640: As soon as that, you know, when I saw that
00:10.720: We all know the people that are.
00:10.720: Yeah.
00:10.720: He also did Dragon Baby.
00:10.720: Let me ask you one last question, Darren.
00:10.720: Like if they just have a setting that allows you to, you know, do it anyway.
00:10.800: I had to work on.
00:10.880: And we, you know
00:10.880: However, what I was referring to
00:10.880: That you really do
00:10.960: Now, Darren is a guy I met at NAB this year.
00:10.960: And when you're standing at the bottom between the ladders,
00:10.960: And
00:10.960: Thank you so much for taking the time to chat tonight.
00:11.040: com.
00:11.120: The patented features of Final Cut 10?
00:11.200: But what you were saying earlier about how
00:11.200: I mean, I almost like.
00:11.280: Well,
00:11.280: Oh my goodness.
00:11.280: I mean, it's still playing them back natively.
00:11.280: Okay.
00:11.360: I see what you're saying.
00:11.440: Yeah, why, you know.
00:11.440: He's actually quite good in it.
00:11.440: Gotcha.
00:11.520: I I have a lot of respect for people that do that all the time.
00:11.520: But I'm just I'm the old guy in the room, so I'm telling you.
00:11.520: I have been for a long time.
00:11.520: Because the way that final cut
00:11.520: Okay.
00:11.600: Yeah, that was the only thing that could really
00:11.680: But there are people that are
00:11.680: Right.
00:11.760: And I see this happen all the time where people
00:11.760: Okay, he has.
00:11.920: I was, you know, I was kind of
00:11.920: I don't
00:11.920: What does it do?
00:12.000: Okay.
00:12.000: Yeah, I mean,
00:12.080: There are times when.
00:12.080: So it's it's the feature that I would want is
00:12.160: Mm-hmm.
00:12.160: Yes.
00:12.240: So you're offering y you're offering
00:12.320: And by then, they had, you know, there's like, I think, two.
00:12.480: Yeah, yeah, that was great.
00:12.480: Which is.
00:12.480: Until then, this is Final Kick Grill.
00:12.560: Enough of that, let's move forward and
00:12.560: Maybe uh maybe we need to rethink that.
00:12.560: If you had the ability to sneak into
00:12.800: I just.
00:12.960: Oh yeah.
00:13.120: And
00:13.120: Oh yeah.
00:13.120: It's just.
00:13.280: And
00:13.360: Damn it.
00:13.440: I hope it came across okay.
00:13.600: I like
00:13.840: No.
00:14.160: Yeah.
00:14.480: I
00:14.480: Later, later.