Episode 28
FCG028 - Leaving the Big Stupid Agency (feat. Charles Silverman)
With a looming deadline and unending blue render bars, Charles knew he needed to move past Final Cut Classic and on to FCPX. Amazingly enough even though he had a huge job for an important client… he made the jump. From early Flash development Charles developed a fascination with video as a communication medium. Originally Charles wasn’t sure that he had much to share with this audience but the history that we discuss about the origins of Flash as a web tool is a fun walk down the memory lane of the “information super highway”
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Featuring
- Chris Fenwick
- Charles Silverman - @csilverman
Transcription
00:00.001: At Chris Fenwick, if you know anybody that you think should be grilled or if you're doing anything that's really spectacular with Final Cut 10.
00:00.080: I respond back, Dude, are you in Vegas?
00:00.160: to hear what people have to say about the show.
00:00.160: They were doing a review of all the work that we've done for them.
00:00.160: Tumultuous in this industry.
00:00.160: pixel aspect ratio and these just very basic things.
00:00.160: Or at least most of us.
00:00.160: They're kind of the keys to the universe.
00:00.160: Flash took on a whole new meaning as being a full motion video device.
00:00.160: Flash intros with the text, you know, zooming and splashing all over the place.
00:00.160: play with QuickTime very well to begin with.
00:00.160: And it just creates the same thing every single time.
00:00.160: It's kind of one of those things.
00:00.160: Like quick turnaround stuff where it's like, I got 20 seconds here, I just want to make it look like it costs 100 bucks instead of 50 bucks.
00:00.160: Yeah, I'm a big fan of Trap Code Shine.
00:00.160: I didn't dive in deep enough, but it just seems like it's more of an overlay where Shine feels like you're creating something entirely different.
00:00.160: Got you.
00:00.160: No, I mean it's hard to do.
00:00.160: Dude, there's a whole lot of that that I do.
00:00.160: You know, it's not exciting stuff, but it's but I tell you this, it beats work.
00:00.160: I had a double riser because I didn't like my background, and I was really sweating everything about the way it looked.
00:00.160: to where you were.
00:00.160: You know, so often when the Apple has simplified things to make it more accessible, they have made it say no more.
00:00.160: Flash was really just a little um animation tool, like, you know, moving little, basically like low low bitrate motion graphics.
00:00.160: And then it became a video tool, and then it became the video tool, and then it became the backbone to YouTube.
00:00.160: Appreciate the listeners.
00:00.240: I don't want to put too many words in his mouth there, but basically got tired of it and decided, you know, I could really do a lot of this on my own.
00:00.240: Well, let's hope this isn't the first.
00:00.240: And when we started in 2004, we were primarily focused on Flash.
00:00.240: You weren't really filming, telling stories as much as you were trying to just create content for somebody to
00:00.240: I did.
00:00.240: And we've seen the diff the change from a tape-based world to a file-based world.
00:00.240: you were like a little nervous, like, well, you know, I don't really do broadcast stuff, but I've been doing video for a long time, talking about the flash stuff.
00:00.240: The new Mac Pros were out with Intel processors, and I thought, you know, now's a good time to get one of those because it gives me options.
00:00.240: Flash and Final Cut one point zero?
00:00.240: And they told him, No, you don't you can't we can't afford to not be moving forward for that amount of time.
00:00.240: the code and he told his managers that or the company that it was going to take, you know, a year plus to rewrite the code from scratch and he was like
00:00.240: And one of the things that he did is he would incorporate sequential bitmaps and make it look like video.
00:00.240: I think that a lot of people in our industry, we do tend to get very territorial about some bit of
00:00.240: I like what you say about I I have to let go of this and I have to move on.
00:00.240: where frie where friends were calling me up, going, Hey, remember that time when you showed me how to do that thing with that stuff?
00:00.240: The reason why I started doing the video tutorials was when it wasn't Telestream, I don't remember the company, but it's now owned by Telestream, when the software package Screenflow was released.
00:00.240: what it does is it gives people the tools to move forward as quickly as they can.
00:00.240: I'm a good editor because I can use that button to do insert rest of story here.
00:00.240: Yeah, I just remember that that was a such a bizarre era in web development because you know and again, I'm in the Silicon Valley, so I'm very close to all of this.
00:00.240: I had seen Flash, you know, before it was a product, just because people were demoing it on shows that I worked on.
00:00.240: incorporate FLV, it flash started to become a delivery mechanism for video, for full video, and with a level of interactivity around it.
00:00.240: a lot of different parameters, time of day, where somebody was in the world.
00:00.240: it actually had I think it got upgraded in nineteen ninety nine and had some features that allowed you to get into those features and actually embed those text tracks and sprite tracks inside the QuickTime movie.
00:00.240: And then from there, that's our master that we do everything from.
00:00.240: uh although good grief we don't do that anymore.
00:00.240: So from the Texas Master, we make the WMVs.
00:00.240: And that has to be down, or you know, it's kind of a bummer.
00:00.240: corporate client that was having their first conv global convention in like seventy years, and it was kind of a big deal.
00:00.240: I decided to give it a go.
00:00.240: And I believe Brian told me this, that you did not use you wi you came, you joined the party after the 10.
00:00.240: To reach across the network and open up that sparse disk, thus tricking the computer into thinking that everything is local, and then you can open up a library even though it's stored across the room or across the building.
00:00.240: And in the process of doing so, you turn off all of the optimized media and render files, not render files, proxy files.
00:00.240: unmanaged, what do they call it?
00:00.240: And that's the thing I'll say that I haven't completely wrapped my head around.
00:00.240: When I transfer it from one drive to another, somehow the paths weren't relative when the media was outside of the.
00:00.240: That's in another folder, an adjacent folder, you do the dot, dot, slash.
00:00.240: And then you write the the directory or you write the name of the directory you want to go into.
00:00.240: Image.
00:00.240: That there is no easy way to hook all of it up, so it was kind of a pain.
00:00.240: All the time.
00:00.240: He talked a little bit about post haste and I told him, I said, you know, I had ran into it after have developing my own system that I'd used for well over a decade.
00:00.240: Turned onto the grill because I thought I need some more information.
00:00.240: Yeah, you mentioned the P key.
00:00.240: The psychological support was phenomenal because, you know, part of me, I said, I'm going to make this switch.
00:00.240: And not being able to, and then all of a sudden, when I learned, you know, P, I was like, okay, now I can do this
00:00.240: was I would pick things up and I would leave it in what I call the land of lost ideas.
00:00.240: Uh two minutes after that, Mark Spencer very, very politely said, At Chris Fenwick, use the position tool.
00:00.240: All the time, and I would say that now I use it if I just can't possibly get it to do what I think it's going to do.
00:00.240: And all of the attached or connected clips will go with it.
00:00.240: like for instance when you're taking the tail of a clip and you're and you're like shortening it up and it it it somehow is
00:00.240: So there's a very interesting phenomenon.
00:00.240: Can you be more specific about some of those things and what it was that you decided to do in Final Cut 10 instead?
00:00.240: In After Effects.
00:00.240: Yeah, I wasn't uh I wasn't af uh so l is light rays like a um like a bunch of clips that you can transfer mode on top of stuff?
00:00.240: like you said with the when the one when the guy when the client said, So who's doing all of this stuff?
00:00.240: you know, video production stuff being done, you know, through an agency and a post house and blah, blah, blah.
00:00.240: push out deadlines and you start to get into more of a collaborative environment, which can be really great.
00:00.240: They've said, do we need to get another editor in here to meet the deadline?
00:00.240: Obviously, I can't do this myself.
00:00.240: Here are some assets that were created two weeks ago that will give it a consistent look and feel.
00:00.240: And ultimately, I think that would be the greatest help, I think, to just be able to sit down at a machine and everything is there ready to edit.
00:00.240: But you know, it's not sexy.
00:00.240: But it was a software company for people that make software that you've never heard of.
00:00.240: is how many cameras is enough because if something goes wrong and you don't have the shot, forget it, you're fired, you're done.
00:00.240: Oh, this is probably a loopable point or whatever.
00:00.240: But somehow stepping through and finding I don't know, it just sounds different to me.
00:00.240: Okay, I'll try that.
00:00.240: or comprehend what people are saying.
00:00.240: are drummers.
00:00.240: I loved color.
00:00.240: I mean, it produces essentially the same thing, but it just depends on how you want to look at it.
00:00.240: On a color wheel, and I'm assuming what you said is right, green and magenta are opposite each other.
00:00.240: So I'm going to pull the center dot the opposite direction.
00:00.240: and there's green.
00:00.240: Here is the greenish area.
00:00.240: I'm on Twitter, C.
00:00.240: All right, well, that was fun.
00:00.240: Yeah, but I find with this it's not as punitive.
00:00.240: And that seventh one is the one that changes the oval into a rectangle.
00:00.240: Very cool.
00:00.240: I tweeted an image out, which was a snapshot of the internet speed in my hotel.
00:00.320: And I will say that when you hear the name of a company come out of my mouth, I promise and assure you, it is something that I absolutely and completely agree in.
00:00.320: So that's a promise from me to you.
00:00.320: And also very new to Final Cut 10.
00:00.320: it allows you to kind of step away from one thing a little bit and, you know, kind of cleanse your palate, so to speak.
00:00.320: We're a creative boutique that kind of gets marketing.
00:00.320: And we started this ten years ago.
00:00.320: So I did the video, I got a voiceover, I used some stock footage, you know, I moved basically just screenshots around, and you know, it came out okay.
00:00.320: And the parent agency caught wind of it and they saw it.
00:00.320: Our media department, our video department here.
00:00.320: it's very easy to step on toes, you know?
00:00.320: But you could even see the interlacing on the stuff.
00:00.320: I've always thought that one of the things that's nice about what Final Cut 10 is doing is it's opening up
00:00.320: a new tool set to people that normally would not have bothered to embrace this technology.
00:00.320: I think I started working I jumped over surprisingly enough, I was on Windows for a brief period of time when before Mac went Intel.
00:00.320: He was he actually passed away two years ago.
00:00.320: And it was just like it blew everyone's mind.
00:00.320: five frames and he would like overlay some film leader and he would just do these little bitmapped experiments that felt like video and flash.
00:00.320: Films that where he wrote, directed, and it's at HilmanCurtis.
00:00.320: to me professionally.
00:00.320: he would learn something, perfect something, teach somebody else to do it, and then move on.
00:00.320: Social currency, and it's a way to kind of connect with people and share things and just elevate
00:00.320: Everyone's work.
00:00.320: Because ScreenFlow allowed me to do in minutes what I used to do for my clients that took hours or days.
00:00.320: And then I can share it with other people too.
00:00.320: Weird for who?
00:00.320: little sprites dancing about, or do you want to put some video in that?
00:00.320: A guy pushing some little JPEGs or PNGs around to a whole full video shoot.
00:00.320: Yeah, it was this big surprise and delight, and everybody wanted to create these experiential websites that people would kind of dive into and spend a half hour on and then which
00:00.320: Exactly.
00:00.320: Kind of publishing social media and then it became about portable content and what's more portable than a video on YouTube.
00:00.320: there was the capability to create hotspots and links and jump points, and you could click on something and jump to a timecode number.
00:00.320: Basically, nobody made a scripting application for it.
00:00.320: understand how to make a WMV look good at a low bit rate.
00:00.320: But nobody knew about it.
00:00.320: I was very excited, and I downloaded it.
00:00.320: having to deal with this and what I felt was, like everyone said, it was iMovie Pro.
00:00.320: Yeah, I had actually started that the summer before and used it um for a while and kind of
00:00.320: When you started actually, I thought, all right, you know what, if Chris is going to switch out because the development was very lagging in seven, and there were some things that were just
00:00.320: just would not play ball.
00:00.320: That great, I felt like, all right, I'm just gonna, I guess I'm gonna stay in Final Classic until I absolutely have to switch.
00:00.320: five different pieces for it, and we had to do it in three weeks.
00:00.320: And my wife is feeling bad for me and comes over and she's going, So how's it going?
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: But if I had one, I wouldn't be doing any better right now anyway.
00:00.320: And I am not putting Final Cut Classic on it.
00:00.320: Okay, I mean, I kind of knew what Final Cut 10 was capable of.
00:00.320: This is true.
00:00.320: Although I even though with the libraries I did adopt the whole sparse bundle model, I found that to be and I and I know you were saying on the last episode that it wasn't really necessary now with
00:00.320: With the libraries?
00:00.320: And then you by taking that very small library, you can copy that across your network, put it on your other machine.
00:00.320: When you launch it, it's going to sniff for the files.
00:00.320: the library that you have moved to another machine, somehow at some point you're going to have to get your edit information back into the master library, and you're going to have to sort of manage that in some way.
00:00.320: you know, moving things around to different disks 'cause the this pro the project got so heavy that, you know, first I'm buying a a terabyte S S D because things are moving slowly, then I'm buying a ten terabyte
00:00.320: what you're saying is by changing the actual by picking up a whole library and moving it to another drive, the files are stored
00:00.320: Or the how do I say this?
00:00.320: And that really saved me a lot of grief.
00:00.320: On this server in this city, on this drive in this folder, you will find something called image.
00:00.320: Yeah, I kind of remap my keyboard to command option control.
00:00.320: And so but yes, having a unified way that you work is very important.
00:00.320: hearing about everybody else that was working in it and everyone else is you know, hearing about the learning wall instead of the curve made me feel like, okay, this is something that's over this.
00:00.320: Hashtag FCPX.
00:00.320: From Twitter.
00:00.320: I would say I started.
00:00.320: And I think that when you get your head wrapped around what the magnetic timeline does do for you.
00:00.320: You're not sure, it feels like the timeline's moving backwards, so to speak.
00:00.320: It's almost like have you ever been sitting at a stoplight and the guy next to you is slowly starts to roll backwards on a hill and you think you're rolling forward.
00:00.320: And it's I don't really, I'm not a big fan of a lot of, you know, glitzy transitions and all of that.
00:00.320: From FCPFX.
00:00.320: part of what we get hired for is the responsiveness and getting things done very quickly and having them done with kind of a deep understanding of the client's business and the brand.
00:00.320: I hate that.
00:00.320: And well, you're either going to do that or you're going to turn down the extra work.
00:00.320: And the videos went over really well, and the client was like, next year we need to double the number of pieces.
00:00.320: You know, and basically what it means is I end up working about half time on my stuff.
00:00.320: and pick up any slack that you know on on th things that trickle in.
00:00.320: getting people at the right place at the right time.
00:00.320: He should be nice.
00:00.320: than it is to take risks in those environments.
00:00.320: You've been using the software now for a couple of months.
00:00.320: I I do.
00:00.320: And I hit play.
00:00.320: You know, like one, two, three, mark, one, two, three, mark, you know.
00:00.320: It's going to be off by a little bit.
00:00.320: I find editing audio a breeze.
00:00.320: There's something about if you just listen and tap out markers, yeah, I would imagine it would be the same thing, but it would be even more accurate.
00:00.320: That it pitch it pitch shifts everything so that I can still understand what they're saying.
00:00.320: Yeah, like like you know, I I edit the podcasts in Adobe Audition, and JKL is worthless.
00:00.320: That just means your edit's wrong.
00:00.320: No, hard cuts are the way to go.
00:00.320: You edit in one thing long enough.
00:00.320: Well, you must be a good drummer then, because tapping out markers.
00:00.320: Yeah, that'd be cool.
00:00.320: And when I kind of lost that workflow going into 10, I was a little disappointed.
00:00.320: never again.
00:00.320: You know, the fact that you can like swipe across the sky and say, yep, I'm going to make that more blue.
00:00.320: But on the colorboard, you can add the magenta to cancel it out, or you can just say, mm, I want a little less green.
00:00.320: So if something is plus green, and on a color wheel, basically you look at it and you say, okay, well, there's green over there.
00:00.320: Okay, that makes sense.
00:00.320: It's kind of it works if you know color theory and it works if you if you're able to just identify what colors you're not happy with and you want to reduce.
00:00.320: Yes.
00:00.320: If some you know, you can watch or you can participate.
00:00.320: In Illinois.
00:00.320: and uh he actually came over and we had lunch together and it was and it was really great.
00:00.400: Hello?
00:00.400: If you do that much, you don't do any of it well.
00:00.400: I couldn't imagine not doing everything that I do because I think it would get pretty boring after a while.
00:00.400: Very true.
00:00.400: So Indigo Six, your are would you how do you describe the business?
00:00.400: kind of say, oh, wow, that's interesting.
00:00.400: prior to Final Cut ten?
00:00.400: And then um and then uh as was editing in Final Cut.
00:00.400: 10, Go Back in History, Final Cut Classic, Go Back in History, Early Premiere.
00:00.400: He left and he was one of the first kind of guys doing Flash that people were really kind of knew who his name was.
00:00.400: advancing in the ranks of the company that he worked for this back in the sixties and early seventies before he bought his own company.
00:00.400: things were like that.
00:00.400: to kind of be able to animate and use audio when bandwidth wouldn't allow for to move bitmaps.
00:00.400: Exactly.
00:00.400: Um so when did you first see Final Cut 10 and at the time you were using uh you said you were using um
00:00.400: And somehow I took it personally.
00:00.400: Got jilted by it a couple of times.
00:00.400: I kind of look like I look at it like I had no choice.
00:00.400: And John Davidson has a shared workgroup environment where they use sparse disks.
00:00.400: You can then duplicate an event out of that library into another library.
00:00.400: But if you're like John Davidson or the work that I do, that's really a completely valid way of working.
00:00.400: Keep all my media outside of the library except for the proxy media.
00:00.400: I know Chris Fenwick.
00:00.400: I find and I'm reticent to mention this because I don't have any concrete examples, but I have found on many occasions that I have slightly changed the way I construct my timeline.
00:00.400: And then I go, okay, just okay.
00:00.400: There were some things that I normally would have done in After Effects that I was afraid I wouldn't have the time without giving up the client or anything.
00:00.400: for some little pieces within the piece where I needed, you know, blasts of light to be coming through logos and things like that.
00:00.400: Count continue it.
00:00.400: and kind of c extend that look throughout some other pieces of footage.
00:00.400: 170 things in a day.
00:00.400: feather in another hand and another wrist and another computer and it's going to be hard.
00:00.400: And yeah, and w what it may very well mean is that if you think you need two editors, the way to do it is to just hire two editors and you become the overl overlord, the style overlord.
00:00.400: And then in the spare time, checking up on the client, making sure everything is getting done the way they want it.
00:00.400: Okay, give me a call.
00:00.400: Oh, you want to.
00:00.400: So for editing music, my workflow is this.
00:00.400: No, there's a lot of great benefits to it.
00:00.400: just because I knew those tools.
00:00.400: Really, the scopes are better, and it's like, and I find that you know, I don't really miss color like I thought I would.
00:00.400: Through red.
00:00.400: And I mentioned that there, when you drop that shape mask on, it's important to identify all seven controls.
00:00.400: Later this week with more.
00:00.480: I'm always interested in hearing what people want to hear about.
00:00.480: And or am I a photographer?
00:00.480: You know, but I think one of the the drivers that made me leave, I'll go off on a bit of a tangent.
00:00.480: So I was using Premiere in that and After Effects for Windows.
00:00.480: And I had a thirty day trial on Windows that they locked me out of, and all of a sudden I got switched back over to Mac, whether I liked it or not.
00:00.480: That's super interesting.
00:00.480: And he was essentially showed everybody exactly how to do it.
00:00.480: There was very early on in QuickTime, and I'm talking, you know, mid-mid-90s or late 90s at least.
00:00.480: and I cut a project in it and I tried to output an Adobe Imedia Adobe Media Encoder.
00:00.480: And this about two months ago, I absolutely had to swim.
00:00.480: I was being stubborn and I had real no real necessity to do it, but I'm very happy that fortuitously the 10.
00:00.480: I wish Apple would change that.
00:00.480: So the experience of that first edit, what were the biggest hurdles that you had to deal with?
00:00.480: You know, it's funny.
00:00.480: You did it and you didn't trust it.
00:00.480: What's going to happen is that everything to the left of that clip, as you shorten that clip,
00:00.480: It is all going to move horizontally to the right on your screen.
00:00.480: A chance?
00:00.480: Pretty few and far between.
00:00.480: And then you say, well, I want to add another guy to that mix, you're not going to be able to do 200 things in a day.
00:00.480: Because there's a certain amount of overlap, there's a certain amount of collaboration, and so two guys can maybe do
00:00.480: We just did these five videos and then we actually were with the conference for a week and filmed, and then had to deliver more videos after that of the conference.
00:00.480: Really?
00:00.480: Absolutely.
00:00.480: Use some profanity.
00:00.480: You know, their jobs are on the line, and these are some pretty senior people.
00:00.480: Just those little things, like if they go wrong, you lose the entire client over it.
00:00.480: Corporate branding is the one place where people aren't really cutting corners yet.
00:00.480: That's the main thing.
00:00.480: At either a forecount or every verse, every course, whatever.
00:00.480: And I looked, and I just when I see that red frame, I go, Okay, that's where I want to drop a clip.
00:00.480: And with like a reference video track, and I found my beats and I put down a red frame, a red mat frame, at the points where I wanted to edit, and I brought it back in.
00:00.480: I wish I could just relink the master folder, the enclosing folder, and everything else would link up, assuming that all the folders are in the exact same place.
00:00.480: You know, you talk about the three-way color corrector.
00:00.480: I can keep adding versions of it as often as I need, it is really cool, you know.
00:00.560: It was.
00:00.560: Final draft.
00:00.560: And yet, um, I I knew about it because the Media One Hundred that I purchased in ninety eight
00:00.560: Funnelcat seven, correct?
00:00.560: It was a familiar shoe, but it was like, okay, I need some new features.
00:00.560: Without you know, like in Final Cut, you can just go right out and do a ProRes file from the timeline.
00:00.560: RAID for all the footage.
00:00.560: On Twitter.
00:00.560: At Chris Fenwick.
00:00.560: And I can't say that I did the same things as I would have done in After Effects, but I was able to do a sufficient number of things within Final Cut 10 and the whole
00:00.560: I think so.
00:00.560: I mean, in the grand scheme of things, in terms of like, you know, how do I say this?
00:00.560: kind of just DIT stuff, you know, where you're naming, you're organizing, you're creating multicams, you're I mean, there's a lot of time that goes in before you could even start to edit.
00:00.560: So, one of the things, because this is something I've been saying for a long time, the audio editing in Final Cut 10 is way more accurate than in Final Cut 7 because, like you said, it's at sub-frame.
00:00.560: I don't know.
00:00.560: But but editing audio in you know scrubbing audio and listening to dialogue at I even have unexperienced
00:00.560: Charles, I should probably let you go.
00:00.560: Then you can go to indigo6.
00:00.640: kind of breastfeeding and things like that.
00:00.640: This is true.
00:00.640: Who who's done all this?
00:00.640: And it's kind of a famous story.
00:00.640: We don't really need this video thing.
00:00.640: Macromedia started getting, you know, Flash excited, excited about Flash, and decided to
00:00.640: You know?
00:00.640: Than it took for me to walk you through it on the phone, it just became a no-brainer.
00:00.640: So you in your early Flash stuff, you started so you started in sort of the beginning of Flash as video?
00:00.640: as opposed to just incorporating little elements of video.
00:00.640: So, yeah, and we just got it like two weeks ago.
00:00.640: And again, when I say remotely, I just mean like, well, there's a job on one of the Pegasus on the ground floor and I'm up in the tower and I want to open it up.
00:00.640: And I was complaining that that wasn't possible anymore.
00:00.640: For the potential of needing to rearrange big blocks of it, knowing that I can just click pick up the main clip.
00:00.640: Somebody once told me that I should do a whole educational series on corporate video.
00:00.640: About 95 to 98% of the time are spot on perfect, and I can make music edits first attempt.
00:00.640: Sitting over my shoulder now, going, go double speed.
00:00.640: I'm going to try that.
00:00.640: I will have just pure hard cuts in the music because they're perfect.
00:00.640: Yeah, no, I never really used color.
00:00.640: To do different things.
00:00.720: I found Charles online.
00:00.720: And then people started to incorporate more and more bitmapped images as bandwidth opened up.
00:00.720: A security blanket.
00:00.720: the type of people that we work with, you have really carved out a very interesting little niche that you've done.
00:00.720: But yes, sometimes collaborating actually slows you down a little bit.
00:00.720: When if you have files in different folders, let's say I have my B-roll, I have my interviews, and I hook up, relink my interviews.
00:00.720: One of the coolest things that I like about the colorboard, which is like, you know, if you look at a shot and it looks a little too green, if you look at a color wheel, you have to say, okay, how do I cancel that out?
00:00.800: It's scary, isn't it?
00:00.800: The Macs just weren't that powerful and they were very expensive.
00:00.800: kind of got me to pick up a camera was a guy.
00:00.800: Intellectual property.
00:00.800: Yeah, I think it was Flash seven made it.
00:00.800: I think I jumped in and I jumped out equally as quickly.
00:00.800: I'm hoping to see one before May.
00:00.800: jpg or whatever.
00:00.800: With the sparse bundles, I was able to just take the whole thing, drop it over to another drive.
00:00.800: 12 months, I never used the position tool.
00:00.800: Various looks and sheens and floaty floaty lights and that type of stuff.
00:00.800: and getting people involved in a project, while I think that they can bring a lot to the project, it does start to kind of push.
00:00.800: Well, thanks for your time and keep in touch.
00:00.880: And he let go of the flash thing and he started making films.
00:00.880: And so if you don't have multiple machines and multiple editors and a network in your office, all of that sounds like gibberish.
00:00.880: So yeah, I mean, so it's interesting, you know, that was in early on, that was a very common workaround or it was call it a
00:00.880: It's FCPFX.
00:00.880: Because I'm doing a faces show for BMW in Las Vegas next week.
00:00.880: And so, you know, I had to shoot Warren Buffett.
00:00.880: Their image, and they are willing to pay to make sure that it is right.
00:00.880: The subsample audio I found is really while it's really great if you want to make these really fine edits, I found it a little bit harder to edit to music with it.
00:00.880: In the long run, it saves you time if you do it while it's still in the event browser.
00:00.880: What I do find odd is that those markers don't drop on frames.
00:00.880: If you're trying to put a video edit right on a marker, quite often you can't.
00:00.880: Sort of, I'll call them, well, no, they're very experienced, but they're not technical.
00:00.880: And I know Alex McLean would probably disagree about getting closer in with the colorboard.
00:00.880: I found it seems to be the same thing.
00:00.960: Hello, hello, hello, hello, hey, welcome to another episode of Final Cut Grill.
00:00.960: It was never an actual full thing.
00:00.960: So anybody who's buying music, even on a Windows machine, you may not know it, but you now have QuickTime.
00:00.960: I think what we are starting to look into is the idea of what many people are referring to as a transfer library.
00:00.960: You had mentioned that on your five jobs in three weeks, five pieces in three weeks thing, you said and I thought this was very interesting, you said
00:00.960: Where it's awesome.
00:00.960: Yeah, that's true.
00:00.960: I'm the only one who's not a drummer.
00:00.960: I actually I do have a I'm going to write that down here.
00:01.040: to write a video app.
00:01.040: Nothing.
00:01.040: And then the iPhone came out and WordPress kind of around the same time and then everything just moved towards
00:01.040: Oh, it's painful.
00:01.040: I've actually done that for quite some time, and I've really learned about post-haste, and that is awesome.
00:01.040: kind of wealth of plug-ins that they're talking about.
00:01.040: Have you d in in the circles that you run, are there other editors that you work with that you are in communication with in terms of saying, yeah, you should really give this a
00:01.040: A deep working relationship with somebody.
00:01.040: That's why I started my own shop because I didn't want to manage people.
00:01.040: And or yeah, and twenty-four or thirty whatever video frames.
00:01.120: You'd be like that guy from the movie Moon.
00:01.120: It sounds like a band.
00:01.120: That I enjoy the process of watching somebody else's eyes light up at that moment where they get it.
00:01.120: We used to talk about sticky websites.
00:01.120: The amount of blur and stuff.
00:01.120: something to be determined yet, because I'm not even sure how you would break up a piece.
00:01.120: I'll ask you one last question, and sometimes this sort of makes the whole conversation kind of go off the rails.
00:01.120: It just, I mean, you know how it sounds different when you're scrubbing through it.
00:01.120: I have, yeah, when things get a little muddy, I'll like attack different parts.
00:01.200: I find that when I'm focusing on one thing, I'm thinking about the other and just keeps in that cyclical kind of nature.
00:01.200: And she's like, You mean do you have to wait just to see what it looks like?
00:01.200: In our office, we still wrestle with wanting to be able to open things remotely.
00:01.200: I would say, no, it's not really about giving up the client as much as it's you know, I'm sure you know this, with corporate work, there's a lot of, you know, they like the sizzle.
00:01.200: But again, as is the case quite often with Final Cut plugins, extremely affordable.
00:01.200: Laundry detergent.
00:01.200: And it's not that that Warren Buffett would fire you.
00:01.200: And it was so simple.
00:01.280: Speaking of time, horrible segue, not really.
00:01.280: I found you.
00:01.280: And I brought them home, but it couldn't find anything, had that moment of panic, and then I could see that it thought they were on a different drive, and I had to reconnect everything.
00:01.280: There is ways to work collaboratively where you make friends, and then there's ways to not make friends.
00:01.280: I mean I've done the same thing where you're at a conference and there's been times where I've had to bring in a second editor and it it's totally hard.
00:01.280: Something about when you step through frames, the audio doesn't sound as it just sounds different to me.
00:01.280: I will put it into the film strip mode where it goes across the top of the or the list mode rather, where you can see the full length of it across the whole width of the browser.
00:01.280: But yeah, no, there's no magic sauce for that.
00:01.360: So I guess the the magnetic timeline was the was the hardest thing to deal with.
00:01.360: I would say that it's kind of like shine light.
00:01.360: It doesn't do that.
00:01.440: And when I just saw the direction that he went in, and I thought, wow, an art director can pick up a camera and start telling stories.
00:01.440: Yeah, there's a couple of different schools of thought in terms of doing this.
00:01.440: I think the people that complain about the magnetic timeline haven't learned to embrace the benefits of the magnetic timeline.
00:01.440: I'll come help you out.
00:01.440: He's worth billions.
00:01.440: And I got much more comfortable.
00:01.440: But I find that when I get my when I got my head around the colorboard, it's actually very powerful and the fact that I can
00:01.520: This is true.
00:01.520: I think I took, I spent probably a half a day just trying to learn as much as I possibly could.
00:01.520: Um it it's not qu it's not quite as um uh
00:01.600: We were shooting video specifically to be used in Flash.
00:01.600: And I remember when I first started in video, it was very difficult to find things online that explain things, even just like
00:01.600: I said, I got to do something because I don't think I'm going to make my deadlines.
00:01.600: I can't remember.
00:01.600: This was help, though.
00:01.600: It's like, oh, why is everything moving?
00:01.600: It's just don't fuck it up.
00:01.600: So I could go over to green.
00:01.600: But they were out here doing a show in the Las Vegas.
00:01.680: This is true.
00:01.680: And I started doing tutorials primarily because I was tired of taking phone calls like while I was walking through the grocery store on a Sunday afternoon.
00:01.680: That's a well-worn story.
00:01.680: It's almost always a hard cut.
00:01.680: And he goes, Yeah.
00:01.760: I do it's it's kind of funny because I was just in a meeting with a client and I was and they were going through
00:01.760: Hey, how are you?
00:01.760: Well, I think it was weird just in the lexicon of like how we spoke about stuff.
00:01.760: That is a feature of the sparse disk that is still valid in a post-10.
00:01.760: Of course, the main reason why a lot of people use sparse disks is just so that you could contain a job to one virtual drive, so to speak.
00:01.760: And in web parlance, if people know web language, a lot of times what you do in the web is when you're in one folder and you want to reference an image or a file.
00:01.760: I'm going to download this.
00:01.760: It's called I'm a Stupid Dickhead Who Hasn't Found the Position Tool Mode.
00:01.760: It works.
00:01.760: I don't know.
00:01.760: I think also back to some other some things that I'd like to see is I'd like to see and you might correct me and tell me, oh no, it does that.
00:01.840: Actually, if you look at our first I don't know if the Wayback Machine has it, but did you listen to that episode where I mentioned the Wayback Machine?
00:01.840: It's what are you going to do with it?
00:01.840: com.
00:01.840: Now, again, provided those are right, and I'm assuming they are, because you seem like a pretty smart guy.
00:01.840: And that's cool.
00:01.920: And I had to go, um, I have.
00:01.920: And I don't, I think this is a new phenomenon, really.
00:01.920: That's one thing.
00:01.920: Boy, that was really kind of a crap wrap-up, but I gotta get back to work.
00:02.000: I mean, we've seen I've said it before, we've seen the change from standard deaf to high deaf.
00:02.000: No, that's a scripting software.
00:02.000: Yes, it is kind of interesting because there is that weird tie between macromedia, flash, video, and who knew flash would become what it is today?
00:02.000: Well, no, I'm the only one who knows how to do that.
00:02.000: So, anyways, unfortunately, that's some of the help that you can find on occasion from
00:02.000: My friend Steve Miller refers to those things as googas.
00:02.000: And FCPFX, that's available through FX Factory, right?
00:02.000: No, two weeks ago, I did a software company for, again, it was a faces show.
00:02.000: That really is the main thing.
00:02.000: Apple Color, the standalone app.
00:02.000: Somebody was complaining about that a couple of episodes ago.
00:02.000: This has been a great talk.
00:02.080: Just use the P key, and it's like going back into Final Cut 7.
00:02.080: We got to put together a team.
00:02.080: And then what I will do is, counting out measures and whatnot, I will drop markers.
00:02.080: You just, you know, you kind of learn its mojo.
00:02.080: I hope it was okay going a little deep dive, nerdy web stuff from the nineties there.
00:02.080: com and see our website, which hasn't been updated in a little bit about a year.
00:02.160: And it makes it more fun to hear to get feedback from people.
00:02.160: And then that's when Apple bought the entire software team, changed, I believe it was called, somebody's going to correct me.
00:02.160: Right.
00:02.160: Final cut is looking for the file on a specific drive, in a specific folder, in a specific library, at a specific location.
00:02.160: And so that would be a relative location as opposed to the absolute location is
00:02.160: It's like everyone's like, oh, I'm shooting my f short film.
00:02.160: And I found that once I learned that you can change the shape of the mask to a rectangle, that was huge.
00:02.160: Thanks for joining me every show.
00:02.240: Yeah, no, I'm sure it's not.
00:02.240: And they said, well, okay, so you've done the website, you have done some photo editorials, you've shot video, you've edited video.
00:02.240: Putting things out to different vendors to accomplish things.
00:02.240: There's a whole lot of that that I do.
00:02.240: Silverman.
00:02.320: Because back in this is mid to late nineties, Macromedia wanted a video app.
00:02.320: So as a web person, you're using the proper term.
00:02.320: If you have, I don't even know if I can verbalize this, to be honest with you, but if you're shortening the head end of a clip.
00:02.400: It's the cardboard one.
00:02.400: Do I want to add green or do I want to pull green?
00:02.480: He's not in a band called Indigo Six.
00:02.480: Especially for somebody in a web business like, oh, crap, they can look at all my old stuff.
00:02.480: Oh, I was on Final Cut Classic for many, many, many years.
00:02.480: Really affordable and really fast.
00:02.480: Well, I mean, the other thing to keep in mind, and I've said this for a long time, that if you have a guy, a talented guy, and he can do a hundred things in a day.
00:02.480: But editing just the music, if you just ignore the picture and don't try and do it frame by frame with the arrow keys.
00:02.560: How are you doing today?
00:02.560: You were just shooting little bits and pieces and trying to work in interactivity and make people go, oh, wow, that's cool, and create these immersive experiences.
00:02.560: But we make all of our compressions because a lot of times we have multiple sizes that we have to deliver, multiple formats.
00:02.560: So that's a good thing.
00:02.560: I remember back, I think it was a couple of years ago, roughly, I was complaining that sometimes one of the ways that I used to like to work
00:02.560: It might be a little bit chunky, but you can totally work keep working.
00:02.560: I mean, I do want that Mac Pro, but you'll get it.
00:02.560: I don't know that we really have any clients that have an expectation that we're going to be working with a lot of other people.
00:02.560: Yeah, the audio is is is by far has so many more things that that the old one had.
00:02.640: Okay.
00:02.640: And she goes, well, you need a new computer.
00:02.640: Then what you can do is you can actually tell the library to look across your Office network and find those files elsewhere.
00:02.640: You know, I actually go by Chris Fenwick, but this guy wants to be called Mr.
00:02.640: I mean, the audio is just.
00:02.640: I find that the color board I can do a lot better with.
00:02.720: Yeah, j just out of curiosity, did you learn very on very early on that you didn't want to be shooting interlace video?
00:02.720: It's a never-ending comedy of herding cats and
00:02.720: Now when I pull my puck down below the baseline on green, is that the same as adding magenta?
00:02.800: I think it would have been also hard to do that in a web environment because you had so many machines, the Windows-based machines didn't really
00:02.800: So I'm going to see if I can verbalize that because that's a very, if you don't know the software, people that are editing in Final Cut 10 are laughing right now.
00:02.800: Sometimes if you have there are times when you relink a file and it finds a bunch more.
00:02.880: And I said, Well, I like shooting stills and I like editing video.
00:02.880: Exactly.
00:02.880: I've just been having a I guess the change is just the way that it sounds.
00:02.880: You know, I have a funny story.
00:02.960: So I'm always confused.
00:02.960: So, once those markers are in the clip, then I bring it into my timeline.
00:03.040: At this point, let's go to the interview with Charles Silverman of Indigo Six.
00:03.040: He used to work in an ad agency and kinda got tired of it.
00:03.040: It was sadly too soon.
00:03.040: Yes, I think one of the brilliant things that Apple did was make iTunes the de facto standard way to buy music and also a big giant QuickTime player.
00:03.040: So when did you first see Ten, and what did you think of it?
00:03.040: And I know that Apple didn't do this to me personally, but between having to wait for a new Mac Pro and then
00:03.040: But yeah, so did you go get premiere or did you hang around on
00:03.040: Um no, not r not really.
00:03.040: We just had to go shoot the board for one of the pieces for this convention.
00:03.120: And I went to a like a seminar that he did.
00:03.120: I think that all the information out there is great because.
00:03.120: And it was great.
00:03.120: No, like I would say that I started when I first opened up 10, I would use it.
00:03.120: I really appreciate your time.
00:03.200: Yeah, Jack of all trades, master of none.
00:03.200: I had some initial grief the first time.
00:03.200: And, you know, you could do some, and I still used that in
00:03.200: So you lose a certain amount of efficiency as you start to add people to the mix.
00:03.200: And so anyway, it was Ben Broadback and he is he was in town finishing up his show
00:03.280: They wrote this out.
00:03.280: You got to know what when they go away, you got to know what they're going to come back with.
00:03.360: And I think at that moment, I was like, I can't work here anymore.
00:03.360: Yeah, they were cool at the time, but when you start to create tricks as content, it starts to get old really fast.
00:03.360: We've all heard it.
00:03.360: Yeah, I had John Chappelle on the show.
00:03.360: There's no reason why he shouldn't be nice.
00:03.360: Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:03.360: Now I can't imagine editing music and anything else.
00:03.440: I actually, and then, and then about one minute
00:03.440: I think I I did one job in color just to say I did it, and I hated the workflow.
00:03.440: I don't tweet as much as I listen.
00:03.520: But now it's we have this culture of sharing, and I think that as people yourself, I mean, you know, I mean, you do great tutorials and those become
00:03.520: And it's like, you know, they can take something which isn't perfectly artful.
00:03.520: You're bringing up a really interesting question to ask.
00:03.600: Decided he needed it because he has had a huge deadline coming up with a whole lot of deliverables and just not enough time to get all of that done.
00:03.600: We left the agency as we used to refer to it as the big stupid agency.
00:03.600: I didn't really.
00:03.600: Well, to be fair, if you were dealing with pixel aspect ratio in the D V world, it was very complicated.
00:03.600: I couldn't out I was having trouble outputting a full res file.
00:03.600: We will send files back to events like backstage that's going to play on a big wall.
00:03.680: Hi, Chris.
00:03.680: Yeah, you know, I think the basic workflow, what we do is we take our time lines and we kick out that big Texas master.
00:03.680: Now, as long as you're keeping your files outside of your library, not a managed library, but a
00:03.680: Oh, call, you know, call Charles.
00:03.680: You might have a natural aptitude.
00:03.680: He was telling me all about his uh video department.
00:03.760: I'm great.
00:03.760: Anyway, it had a name at Macromedia.
00:03.760: Who knew?
00:03.760: Interesting.
00:03.760: You moved I found that I would moving some pieces around and
00:03.840: Right.
00:03.840: So maybe I have to try ten.
00:03.840: And I found that in moving the libraries or the projects, no, it'll be a library, sorry.
00:03.840: I mean, that alone was just sped up my workflow tremendously, not having to wait for anything.
00:03.920: I'm not sure if you know the name.
00:03.920: I want to keep following what you're doing.
00:04.000: My business partner and I, we come from an agency background.
00:04.000: Yeah, I was reprimanded and I thought, you know what, I gotta start my own shop.
00:04.000: Okay.
00:04.000: I don't know that people's expectations.
00:04.000: Yeah.
00:04.080: But well, I will say we ordered it the first day.
00:04.080: So, that was it.
00:04.080: Yeah, it's a lot of click.
00:04.080: It's no big deal at all.
00:04.080: Yep.
00:04.160: And I had some clients that I worked with that were in a Windows environment.
00:04.160: Not doing it.
00:04.160: And the fact that I'm getting it almost always the first try is spectacular.
00:04.160: Okay.
00:04.240: I know that there's a Doctor Charles Silverman that writes a lot about.
00:04.240: The world gets very small when you look at it through the eyes of the Internet.
00:04.240: They wrote a Mac version and a PC version.
00:04.240: Boo!
00:04.240: That's one way of doing it.
00:04.240: What would you change if you could change anything?
00:04.240: But very quickly I realized, oh, wow, I'm noticing that my music edits are spot on first chance the vast majority of times.
00:04.320: It's awesome to talk to you.
00:04.320: You know, we're going to master if it had to go to tape.
00:04.320: I just didn't know if I was capable of making the switch in the midst of a massive project.
00:04.320: So good grief.
00:04.320: Okay.
00:04.320: I mean, he's a nice, nice man.
00:04.400: Indigo Six is his company, Charles Silverman.
00:04.400: I was like, hmm, why is that jagged?
00:04.400: I couldn't possibly let you take over.
00:04.400: So I'd just pick up stuff and I go, I'm going to put that way off here at the end of my time line.
00:04.400: You know what I mean?
00:04.480: And somebody stood up and said, Why would you be teaching us this?
00:04.480: Oh, yeah, the cardboard one, yes.
00:04.480: I mean, you seriously, I mean, there is a whole lot of, you know, make sure all your ducks are in a row.
00:04.480: Yeah.
00:04.480: I rarely put little dissolves in my music edits anymore.
00:04.480: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:04.480: That, you know, why does red have to be split?
00:04.560: Ah Know that history?
00:04.560: You know, it was it was like all of a sudden the word flash could mean the difference between
00:04.560: Isn't that weird?
00:04.560: While the clip is still in the bin, or not the bin, but the keyword, in the event browser.
00:04.560: And they're asking for it, you know, and they can totally follow along because it's pitch-shifted down, so you can still hear what people are saying.
00:04.560: Yeah.
00:04.640: Boy, there's a lot of Charles Silvermans out there on the Skype.
00:04.640: So tell me a little bit about the work that you do.
00:04.640: And I got a call from the executive creative director who said, you know, if you want to do something like that, you have to go through our
00:04.640: I know.
00:04.640: So when you were talking about moving to Premiere, I jumped over.
00:04.640: So, whatever.
00:04.720: Final Cut Classic.
00:04.720: It never used to be like that.
00:04.720: Exactly.
00:04.720: Tell me about that.
00:04.720: And I find that those markers
00:04.720: Yeah, I've never thought about that.
00:04.800: If you are so inclined, I'd want to say, you know, please go to iTunes and leave comments.
00:04.800: You know, it's interesting because one of the guys that
00:04.800: But he was an art director at Macromedia and
00:04.800: One of the cool things about it was that you could script and actually create serve video based on
00:04.800: And I said, Yeah.
00:04.800: But there's many ways to deal with it.
00:04.800: What's the alternative, going to work every day for a living?
00:04.800: And you start to realize that, you know, is dual system audio enough?
00:04.800: It almost sounds more computerized than I will say this.
00:04.800: That is that when I figured that out, I was like, oh, I can start working with skies now.
00:04.880: I've been accused of that.
00:04.880: And it's in different folders based on B-roll, based on interviews.
00:04.880: I don't know.
00:04.880: I found was having trouble finding certain beats.
00:04.960: I think there was one, and it was very expensive and very much not accessible.
00:04.960: Not going to do it.
00:04.960: Is that what it is?
00:04.960: And I'll be back later.
00:05.040: This is 028 with Charles Silverman.
00:05.040: You could start to embed video.
00:05.040: I've heard it a number of times on the show.
00:05.040: And a guy by the name of, and I'm going to call him out here, his name was Beetle Car Driver or Mr.
00:05.040: It freaks you out at first.
00:05.040: Once I figured out how to deal with that interface, the speed of it and the responsiveness of it was amazing.
00:05.040: But if somebody were to tweet you, you'd see it.
00:05.120: I remember my dad passed away a few years ago and he one of the things that he would always say was that his thing was that professionally
00:05.120: It doesn't have quite the impact that shine does, but or maybe I just haven't
00:05.120: No, never turn down the extra work.
00:05.120: And sometimes it's more important to be safe.
00:05.120: I'm sorry to completely shut down the one thing that you wanted to change.
00:05.120: Do you find yourself adding several layers of color correction to a shot or multiple?
00:05.120: I do have a tutorial about the color masking
00:05.120: How do people find out more about Indigo 6 and how to find you?
00:05.200: And I said, yeah, you know, I do need one of those new Mac Pro.
00:05.200: I had I mean, yeah, I mean, everything happening and you know, pretty much I mean, if you can wait, you could wait for the render, but you can still see what it looks like without the render.
00:05.200: And I found a couple of shots where I thought it was a little bit too yellow, and I just brought the little puck over and brought down the yellow.
00:05.280: So I want to step out of here dot dot slash into my graphics directory slash
00:05.280: I thought I was bringing files home, and I
00:05.280: It saves you tons of time.
00:05.280: You know, I move things and they stay where they are.
00:05.280: And I've thought about it and I go, you know, actually no.
00:05.280: You might want to pick up some sticks.
00:05.360: Any more developments?
00:05.360: And I tried to move a few clips on the timeline, and I almost put my fist through the monitor, and I closed it.
00:05.360: And exactly how responsibilities get broken up and how who can do what is still kind of
00:05.360: And as long as you have a long history of delivering
00:05.440: What do I click on?
00:05.440: It's like, I'm just going to do this and post it on YouTube and be done with it.
00:05.440: Yeah.
00:05.440: That's where they totally killed it for such a long time.
00:05.440: Because it is because it's looking for it on a specific drive, which is the name of that sparse bundle.
00:05.440: Did you go through that period where you
00:05.440: Yeah, I'm going to throw some googas in there.
00:05.440: Yeah, it can lead to a better product in the end.
00:05.440: Well, that's good to know.
00:05.440: Editing audio is a breeze.
00:05.440: No, I I and I will say in the very, in the very beginning, there was a few audio edits that I did in seven.
00:05.440: I'm working right now in Las Vegas, and the other day I
00:05.520: Yeah.
00:05.520: I started the first piece in classic, and I'm at home.
00:05.520: You turn into a click monster for about a half hour.
00:05.520: Let me think that was episode 16.
00:05.520: Aaron Powell, I find there's a lot of housekeeping that you can get done.
00:05.520: And again, and I've said this before, that in many respects
00:05.520: I will say this: that every single editor and most of the producers that work for us at our office here
00:05.600: And I promise, you know, if you want to give input that way or via Twitter.
00:05.600: We were doing a pitch for GE for an intranet.
00:05.600: And very quickly, Flash became all about video.
00:05.600: And that's huge.
00:05.600: The deadlines were too tight to go to After Effects for a lot of the things that I used to go to for After Effects.
00:05.600: Now, I was talking with John Davidson back on episode nine, and this is prior to the 10.
00:05.600: Slash, dot, dot, dot, dot, slash?
00:05.600: The other way of doing it is to have a unified folder structure that you always use.
00:05.600: I mean, you could say, you know, take the intro, take you take this part.
00:05.600: You might not, you might not have to do it.
00:05.600: I'm g I'm going to Sundance and South by Southwest and blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:05.600: They drop on the subframes.
00:05.680: But as soon as I saw actually, it was funny, I bought a I was looking at hardware and
00:05.680: And it became pretty old, pretty quick.
00:05.680: Now on a color wheel, you're going toward magenta.
00:05.680: Thanks very much, Chris.
00:05.760: His name was Hillman Curtis.
00:05.760: And I feel like I'm screwing everything up.
00:05.760: It works.
00:05.840: In Premiere, you had to use Media Encoder, and it was
00:05.840: I have to say one thing that I really love, and I heard you talking about at the color board.
00:05.920: Me and my staff.
00:05.920: He used to work at Adobe and he wanted to cha make some substantive changes to
00:05.920: What happened?
00:05.920: And I go, Do you see this?
00:05.920: And you're like, whoa, what is happening?
00:05.920: I was a creative director at an agency.
00:05.920: But everyone, you know, the people that are producing this stuff.
00:05.920: You know, I mean, that is like probably my favorite feature is the color mask.
00:05.920: It's very I never I never really thought about that before.
00:06.000: Sure.
00:06.000: Apple changed the name to Final Cut, took the Windows code, buried it in a hole in Cupertino and released Final Cut Pro.
00:06.000: I mean, in one respect, I think that people expect a team of people and kind of different
00:06.000: Oh, yeah, for voices, yeah.
00:06.000: You know, maybe we should have him on the show.
00:06.080: And it just didn't work out.
00:06.080: So tell me what that first day was like.
00:06.080: And I felt like, and I might be the only one who's actually doing this, but
00:06.080: I have a huge deadline.
00:06.160: It's funny you say that because over the past
00:06.160: Um
00:06.160: And it's just,
00:06.160: Let's, for the sake of this discussion, let's say it is, even if it isn't.
00:06.240: And it seemed like that
00:06.240: Yeah.
00:06.240: The wife is like, you know, you're sitting here staring at that blue bar too long, and that's when you decided to give it a go?
00:06.240: Badback.
00:06.240: It I don't think it is.
00:06.240: I know you'll get it.
00:06.240: Well, that'd be me.
00:06.240: And I think ultimately it came out great.
00:06.240: It does make sense that it would be, but graphically, it's represented in
00:06.240: And now because of the stubbornness of Apple and the success of the iOS, we're really moving away from Flash to HTML5.
00:06.240: That's it.
00:06.320: I am not a good editor because I know what this button does.
00:06.320: Oh, I'm I want to put a flash banner here.
00:06.320: So I was searching for any Final Cut Pro 10 podcast and I found the grill and I said.
00:06.320: He'll get the job done.
00:06.320: And it becomes subtractive at that point.
00:06.400: It's always good to talk to.
00:06.400: And he started doing some commercial work and he made some amazing
00:06.400: Oh, yeah.
00:06.400: You know, it's f uh an aside.
00:06.400: This is thirty nine bucks.
00:06.480: I don't want to put too much into his work
00:06.480: And that might be true to some extent, but
00:06.480: Um as an aside, and I may actually cut this out of the show, but did do you know the tie between
00:06.480: jpg.
00:06.480: So it kind of felt a little more cohesive, where I could do let After Effects do some of that the heavy heavy lifting, but then Final Cut could really
00:06.480: Yes, I know FCPFX.
00:06.480: It it's going to slow us that actually is going to slow us down at this stage.
00:06.480: And I find those places that are likely.
00:06.480: It sounds a little more
00:06.480: But that's the beauty of Twitter.
00:06.560: Well, you know, I mean, I've said it before that this last 10, 15 years or so, been really
00:06.560: It was all vector-based stuff.
00:06.560: I was livid.
00:06.560: Totally.
00:06.560: And it is, it's a last resort, but at least it's there.
00:06.560: You've never Yeah.
00:06.560: So, but on the color board, I have red.
00:06.640: Yes, we are getting closer to working with some deals for some sponsorship.
00:06.640: Is it a are you an ad agency?
00:06.640: com.
00:06.640: But typically we've done a lot of stuff to make them happy.
00:06.640: But then, other people, I think there's so many people that just deliver things very quickly and get things done for clients, it's what they come to expect.
00:06.640: I'm overseeing and interfacing for the other guy.
00:06.720: But it is
00:06.720: I don't really know what it is.
00:06.720: Well, I'd like to say that I strategically waited for the right moment, but you're just being stubborn in the past.
00:06.720: So then but I always drop markers on in real time.
00:06.720: So it's not in the same spot.
00:06.720: I've never thought about that.
00:06.720: It's been fun.
00:06.800: And Charles is interesting because he has a wide variety of clients at which he's going to tell some funny stories about there.
00:06.800: We worked in advertising.
00:06.800: You might have been able to do it in six, but you definitely had to jury rig it.
00:06.800: And then as they started to
00:06.800: And one of the beauties of it, of using a sparse disk, is it allows your the Mac OS
00:06.800: It does.
00:06.800: Exactly.
00:06.800: Yeah, I'm a big fan.
00:06.800: I'm going to work on these things
00:06.800: No, I mean, you know, I think, I think
00:06.800: But at least it's BMW.
00:06.880: It's just really great, great work.
00:06.880: Hope that helps.
00:06.880: I'm editing on a MacBook Retina.
00:06.880: You know, like ha like how do you do this stuff and how do you do it for and survive it for as long as I have.
00:06.880: And on the board of directors of this company is Warren Buffett.
00:06.880: I doubt it.
00:06.960: I don't believe I do.
00:06.960: He would almost fake video per se.
00:06.960: I mean, it started out as a, you know, something to.
00:06.960: Right, right, right.
00:06.960: And I'm pointing at the screen and I'm looking at the render, the blue bar.
00:07.040: The thing that I found with the with the sparse bundles that I've liked or that that I moved to actually within the project, I started
00:07.040: I just find something on the playback, like obviously I'm not trying to drop markers when I'm scrubbing, but
00:07.040: And I get a comment from another listener, and he goes, Oh, wow, that's a lot faster than the internet in my hotel, which is right down the street.
00:07.120: I can use Bootcamp and boot up in Windows, or I can use OS X.
00:07.120: They go, yeah, that'd be cool.
00:07.120: And I was like verbally talking them through it.
00:07.120: Okay, so let's talk about Final Cut 10.
00:07.120: They don't expect this guy sitting there on his little laptop to be churning this stuff out.
00:07.120: And I heard that, well, you can get much far much closer.
00:07.200: I've been afraid of that thing for years.
00:07.200: We've seen the change from four by three to sixteen by nine primarily
00:07.200: It was exactly what I needed.
00:07.200: Now, you don't have to do that, but I find that it's more
00:07.200: It's amazing how many times in a music edit.
00:07.200: And I can just, and then the masks, and I love the color mask.
00:07.280: So call me whatever you want.
00:07.280: And then a year later or something,
00:07.280: Yeah.
00:07.280: Because there's like I think it's what, 100 frames per 80 audio frames per second.
00:07.360: But I was then able to take the Light Rays plug-in from FCP Effects.
00:07.360: It's um
00:07.360: No.
00:07.360: I'll put it that way, non-technical producers.
00:07.360: That's it for this episode.
00:07.360: Later, later.
00:07.440: So when you first when you and I first emailed each other, you mentioned that
00:07.440: The name sounds familiar, but I don't know why.
00:07.440: Very interesting.
00:07.440: And we have corporate clients that still request WMVs.
00:07.440: Until you've done it a few times, you go, oh, okay, I get that.
00:07.440: And it's something that I miss doing a lot of things myself.
00:07.440: Well, give me a call, we'll help you out.
00:07.440: They care about
00:07.440: So once that music file is in your timeline
00:07.440: But so it's left to right, it's red from red to red.
00:07.520: But when
00:07.520: I was really angry.
00:07.520: He said.
00:07.520: Yeah, I I'm guilty.
00:07.600: You know, they're not used to that.
00:07.600: Right.
00:07.600: But probably the best thing to do is to divvy up specific time lines.
00:07.600: Try what I'm saying and see if you don't find that it works well.
00:07.600: It's interesting to see how Flash has progressed over the years, you know, because in the beginning
00:07.600: Absolutely.
00:07.680: It was it was very weird.
00:07.680: When it first came out, I was.
00:07.680: And I think that as deadlines get really tight, friends get
00:07.680: That's what we want him to say.
00:07.680: I've tried.
00:07.680: Apparently he's got uh this huge video department working for Caterpillar, the uh the tractor company.
00:07.760: So he and his software team left the company, were hired by Macromedia.
00:07.760: And so when it was when it was literally, it would take me less time to actually create the tutorial and post it,
00:07.760: And what I realized is that creative director is less about being the idea guy and more about managing people.
00:07.760: Whereas before he used to go, oh, I'm just going to put a little three-frame dissolve in there.
00:07.760: No problem.
00:07.840: Yeah.
00:07.840: You know, and and that was that was his way of
00:07.840: Three tricks that everybody knew how to do in Flash.
00:07.840: And it just never really felt
00:07.840: We have a client
00:07.840: 1 was released and I had the libraries.
00:07.840: So
00:07.840: Yeah.
00:07.920: And that's great.
00:08.000: Is there?
00:08.000: That is I've always said that in this business, it's nice to have a wide hat rack because
00:08.000: And we had to do
00:08.000: But I got to tell you, in the last.
00:08.080: So everybody had their
00:08.080: That goes up a directory.
00:08.080: And I stop myself and I say, wait a minute, wait a minute, this can't possibly be right.
00:08.080: I've actually been on jobs where
00:08.080: So it may it yeah.
00:08.160: I was talking to somebody and they asked if I was a shooter or an editor.
00:08.160: We want some video.
00:08.160: And then it really comes down to what they do with it.
00:08.160: You know, another fact that I think a lot of people don't realize, you know.
00:08.240: It's a ten only machine.
00:08.240: Trying to move clips around.
00:08.240: I hope so.
00:08.320: I know you emailed me some of this stuff, but for the people listening.
00:08.320: Okay.
00:08.320: But
00:08.320: I am absolutely in love with the fact that while I'm scrubbing audio, JKL, JKL.
00:08.320: Yes.
00:08.400: Are you a design firm?
00:08.400: Right.
00:08.400: Yeah, you're right, because the path is.
00:08.400: This is true.
00:08.400: It's awful.
00:08.400: So it's like
00:08.480: This is your thing.
00:08.480: And it was around the time that you started your campaign to switch to Premiere.
00:08.560: It's almost.
00:08.560: I tweeted some pictures from the hotel.
00:08.560: So I have to admit, I went back into I brought my music into seven.
00:08.560: I guess it was just one of the things that I was having a hard time getting used to.
00:08.640: Oh man, you could be cloned a million times.
00:08.640: 1 transition.
00:08.720: And essentially, what you can do is you can open up library A
00:08.720: Thanks for the comments.
00:08.800: Actually, I've never done an interview that I didn't walk away from going, wow, I'm really glad I did that.
00:08.800: Yeah.
00:08.800: No.
00:08.800: Enough of that crazy Windows crap.
00:08.800: This is the show of asides.
00:08.800: And he.
00:08.880: I was going through tutorials on YouTube.
00:08.880: They're used to having
00:08.880: No, that's wrong.
00:08.960: So I was working on Windows NT for a while.
00:08.960: You're right.
00:08.960: But you're right, it does slow you down.
00:08.960: I was sweating the lighting, I was sweating.
00:08.960: And I find it harder to find.
00:09.040: What were you using back in the day, so to speak?
00:09.040: And the guy has always been a huge influence.
00:09.040: Oh, okay.
00:09.120: Which is which is hard because I think that people tend to think that
00:09.120: No, it's you know, it is interesting when you work in a bigger machine.
00:09.120: Now, and actually, very interesting thing: if this was two months ago.
00:09.120: But I think that what we are going to
00:09.120: And because my folder structure is actually
00:09.120: You know, scrubbing is worthless because it goes into Mickey Mouse land, you know, the first time you hit it.
00:09.200: And I thought, you know, I could do a video that would really sell this thing.
00:09.200: And he would shoot DV video, pull like
00:09.200: Yeah, I mean, a lot of people would say you're crazy for that.
00:09.200: Yeah, exactly.
00:09.280: I know that for myself.
00:09.280: Many of our clients uh many some of our clients, about forty percent I guess, still want WMVs.
00:09.360: So um when Randy Eubelos, the author of Final Cut
00:09.360: But it's more than that.
00:09.360: I do a lot of that for
00:09.440: Right.
00:09.440: Right.
00:09.440: Yeah.
00:09.440: There's a good brand around that.
00:09.440: But it's stupid.
00:09.520: Yeah, so you step up a directory.
00:09.520: All of their branding looks like it's printed on corrugated cardboard.
00:09.520: It's going to actually slow me down to
00:09.520: You know, I I think so much of corporate work is I you know, if I can uh
00:09.600: What are you?
00:09.600: 1 era.
00:09.600: Yeah, it's interesting, though, it really is sort of a security blanket.
00:09.600: So all of a sudden you cram your brake pedal through the floorboard.
00:09.600: It's not you know, it's gonna
00:09.600: That's great.
00:09.680: And to be honest,
00:09.680: And depending on your machine and the
00:09.760: Because if you if you are looking for the content, you have to jump through a bunch of hoops to get there, it's a pain.
00:09.760: Of course, I'm working at night trying to meet deadlines.
00:09.760: Yeah, it's kind of nice to just hear that you're not alone, huh?
00:09.760: So I found that really kind of a nice thing because it
00:09.760: Thanks for the replies.
00:09.840: I talk about this
00:09.840: Just you know
00:09.920: I think part of what
00:10.000: Do you mean
00:10.080: What it does mean then is that the
00:10.080: But I think that, that really requires a pretty
00:10.080: You're an idiot.
00:10.160: Yeah.
00:10.160: And he just said, I got to let go of it and move on to something else.
00:10.160: You know, your Monday night football kind of effects.
00:10.160: Prepped and ready to go.
00:10.240: I have to say, it's very encouraging for me.
00:10.240: But I think in seven.
00:10.320: The problem was that
00:10.400: That was an interesting time.
00:10.400: Moving it around,
00:10.400: What makes more sense is to p you know, maybe do a couple of hours of overtime.
00:10.480: Exactly.
00:10.560: Just call me when you have work.
00:10.560: And you know, my first thought was
00:10.560: What if you're doing like.
00:10.640: And it's not knowing how to do things, which is the
00:10.640: Okay, so
00:10.720: But at the same
00:10.800: Okay, try this.
00:10.880: But yeah, that's really the holy grail is that workflow.
00:10.880: At our office here, we just got one of the new Mac Pros.
00:10.880: Oh, really?
00:10.880: Let me explain.
00:10.960: I was a big color guy.
00:11.040: Call Chris.
00:11.040: So, if you
00:11.120: Thank God we're all using square pixels now.
00:11.120: But if you don't, you're going to go, what the hell is this guy talking about?
00:11.200: I'm not the only one who's had to climb this thing.
00:11.360: And I cannot
00:11.360: And I think that the more people you start reaching out to,
00:11.360: You're going to do this piece and this piece and this piece.
00:11.360: Yep, the good old masking tools.
00:11.520: Yep.
00:11.520: Send me the at messages at ask
00:11.680: And then
00:11.840: 1.
00:11.840: You need some magenta.
00:11.840: Or am I pulling out more green?
00:12.000: But then I said to myself,
00:12.000: Now.
00:12.160: Absolutely.
00:12.160: Yeah.
00:12.320: Stop stepping through frames.
00:12.400: Exactly.
00:12.480: I got
00:12.480: Bad Back.
00:12.560: Gotcha.
00:12.560: Well, yeah.
00:12.640: Right.
00:12.800: So I thought.
00:12.880: And I'm like, dude.
00:13.360: I can do this.
00:13.680: So, um.