Episode 125
FCG125 - Find Your Success (feat. Geoffrey Orthwein)
“Everything looks familiar but nothing makes sense”, that’s what a lot of people say about FCPX when they first take a look at it. Geoffery Orthwein has been using FCPX from day one. He had the added support of actually working for Alex Lindsey of the Pixel Corp so the decision to use it was pretty much made for him. Geoff talks us thru some workflow choice he made, tells us how his transition went from film, to Avid, to FCP Studio and then finally FCPX. We also have a little chat about the difference between Post and Live production. “…to find its success” You’re never finished you just stop, you don’t reach success you are constantly working toward it. indie workflow as a followup episode - feature film labs invite
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Featuring
- Chris Fenwick
- Geoffrey Orthwein - bokehthemovie.com - @geoffreyo
Transcription
00:00.720: Speaker 1: Hello.
00:01.920: Speaker 1: Hello.
00:03.440: Speaker 1: We are indeed doing a show.
00:04.800: Speaker 1: Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever it takes.
00:08.000: Speaker 1: This is another episode of Final Cut Grill.
00:10.240: Speaker 1: This is episode number 125 with Jeffrey
00:16.560: Speaker 1: With Jeffrey Orthwine.
00:18.800: Speaker 1: I had to ask him how to pronounce his name because I suck at stuff like that.
00:22.320: Speaker 1: Anyway.
00:22.760: Speaker 1: I met Jeff at the Final Cut 10 Creative Summit, which we've been talking about that for the last couple of weeks.
00:29.960: Speaker 1: And he and
00:32.840: Speaker 1: My friend Ben went out to lunch one day while we were down there, and Jeff's an interesting dude.
00:39.079: Speaker 1: And we talk a lot about his workflows and just kind of the history of the software and things like that.
00:44.839: Speaker 1: What we did not talk about much
00:47.040: Speaker 1: Is his movie now?
00:48.239: Speaker 1: He has a movie coming out called Boca, and he's currently in like the final final stages of post.
00:54.399: Speaker 1: And
00:54.920: Speaker 1: He did actually some, not all, but some of the effect shots were actually done in motion.
01:00.120: Speaker 1: And we didn't, and also something we didn't talk about in this episode.
01:04.260: Speaker 1: Anyway, it's called Boca the Movie, and it's if you don't know, it's B-O-K-E-H themovie.
01:10.580: Speaker 1: com.
01:11.060: Speaker 1: You may want to go check that out.
01:14.020: Speaker 1: But
01:15.500: Speaker 1: So that's like a whole part of the discussion that we don't actually get into in this episode.
01:21.580: Speaker 1: But I think that.
01:23.540: Speaker 1: I firmly believe that there's going to be another episode with Jeff coming up in short order, maybe in the next month or something like that.
01:33.460: Speaker 1: There's easily a whole nother episode of great conversation with Jeff.
01:37.220: Speaker 1: So, anyway, that's that.
01:39.460: Speaker 1: That's what's coming up.
01:40.500: Speaker 1: Please go check out Premium Beat.
01:45.000: Speaker 1: They are my go-to place for music.
01:49.720: Speaker 1: I continue to use them.
01:52.200: Speaker 1: I'm going to give you a tip.
01:53.240: Speaker 1: I may have mentioned this on another episode.
01:57.360: Speaker 1: Some people say, and I've started to hear people say, Oh yeah, I've heard all that music.
02:02.000: Speaker 1: It's like, no, there's a lot of music there you haven't heard.
02:04.960: Speaker 1: Now here's the reason why a lot of people are saying, Oh, I've heard that kind of music.
02:08.560: Speaker 1: You go into the most popular and you're playing the first ten cuts.
02:12.780: Speaker 1: One of the things I've been doing a lot of, I sort by most popular, and then I go to like page 10, right?
02:19.740: Speaker 1: And it's not that it's not good, it's just not popular yet.
02:23.820: Speaker 1: Okay, so anyway, that's one of my tips.
02:26.620: Speaker 1: There's tons of music that isn't getting, that isn't that people aren't seeing.
02:32.300: Speaker 1: So use the software.
02:34.380: Speaker 1: There's many ways to use the web page.
02:36.860: Speaker 1: and tons of great music there.
02:38.620: Speaker 1: I have constantly been able to find great cuts of music for the things that I'm working on.
02:44.459: Speaker 1: Also, learn how to use your playlists.
02:47.340: Speaker 1: It's just the website's great.
02:49.340: Speaker 1: You know, recently I got a phone call from a friend of mine who works at a major software company.
02:56.840: Speaker 1: And they said, hey, I've been listening to you talk about Premium B for the last year, and I finally took a look at it, and I really like it.
03:04.120: Speaker 1: It's like, yes, thank you.
03:05.240: Speaker 1: I know.
03:06.840: Speaker 1: I'm not just saying this.
03:08.520: Speaker 1: This is a tool that I use.
03:10.720: Speaker 1: All the time.
03:11.680: Speaker 1: Anyway, so now we're going to go to Jeffrey Orthwine, and he lives up in Petaluma, California, which is about an hour or so.
03:21.140: Speaker 1: north of San Francisco.
03:23.299: Speaker 1: And if you're if you've listened to this show and you know about the podcasting world, you may know where Petaluma is.
03:32.420: Speaker 1: So um there's a hint uh you're gonna learn more about Jeff coming up.
03:36.060: Speaker 1: Here we go.
03:39.180: Speaker 1: There's the thing.
03:40.459: Speaker 1: Turn that up.
03:41.260: Speaker 1: Hello, hello.
03:44.220: Speaker 1: Good morning.
03:45.260: Speaker 1: First time it works.
03:46.780: Speaker 1: You sound great, Jeff.
03:48.780: Speaker 1: Uh, good.
03:49.900: Speaker 1: Now, do you is Jeff okay, or do you go by Jeffrey?
03:53.120: Speaker 1: What'd you prefer?
03:54.640: Either one.
03:56.240: Generally, people probably call me Jeff more than Jeffrey.
03:58.880: Speaker 1: Okay.
03:59.200: Speaker 1: And then how do I pronounce your last name?
04:02.580: It's Orthwine.
04:04.180: Speaker 1: Orthwine.
04:05.220: Speaker 1: Okay, what's the origin of it?
04:06.900: It's a German name.
04:08.340: Okay.
04:09.060: So, Germany.
04:11.800: Speaker 1: Okay.
04:13.320: Speaker 1: So Jeff, welcome to the little show here.
04:16.680: Speaker 1: Thanks for agreeing to participate.
04:19.620: Thanks for having me.
04:20.579: It's good to be here.
04:21.379: Speaker 1: Yeah, it was fun.
04:22.819: Speaker 1: You and I and Ben had a little lunch excursion at the Creative Summit.
04:30.240: Speaker 1: We drove across town to the local Chipotle, and then on our way back, I made you guys take
04:38.060: Speaker 1: touristy shots in front of Wau's Wei.
04:40.540: Yeah, I hadn't seen Wazway before.
04:41.980: That was that was pretty good.
04:43.020: And that wraps right around the convention center when I went to get my car that night.
04:49.920: Turns out I had parked basically on Wauseway.
04:52.240: Speaker 1: Oh, really?
04:52.800: Speaker 1: Funny.
04:53.520: Speaker 1: Yeah.
04:54.000: Speaker 1: No.
04:55.600: Speaker 1: It's one of those things where if you spend any time in downtown San Jose, actually, and you're going north.
05:02.699: Speaker 1: Not up two hundred eighty, but uh if you're headed back to one hundred one, you almost kind of have to drive on Wauzway.
05:08.380: Speaker 1: So it's it's uh it's just one of those nerd things that you pick up when you when you spend much time in the valley.
05:14.820: Yeah.
05:15.540: Well, it's definitely good while you're nerding out over video editing, it's good to hit all the nerd milestones.
05:22.100: Speaker 1: You may as well, right?
05:24.039: Speaker 1: And I'm sure there's others.
05:25.479: Speaker 1: You know, we could have taken our Chipotle to go and sat in front of the HP garage.
05:29.800: Speaker 1: Nice, nice.
05:31.479: That would have been good.
05:33.320: Okay.
05:33.880: That's PC history, not Apple history, but still.
05:37.480: Speaker 1: It's all kind of related.
05:39.720: Speaker 1: It is.
05:40.360: Speaker 1: It is.
05:41.400: Speaker 1: So, Jeff, first off
05:46.400: Speaker 1: I'd love to know what your background is and how you got into this business.
05:51.760: Speaker 1: So how did you get started doing this stuff?
05:54.320: So yeah, I got started
05:59.040: Really, I started in post-production out of school.
06:04.960: Well, initially, I went to film school.
06:07.980: graduated with very few viable real world skills.
06:15.500: Although when I was there
06:18.700: my last semester of college was the was the first semester that they offered a course in avid editing.
06:25.260: So that was like
06:26.440: the big exciting thing.
06:27.560: So I made sure to get into that and I learned like I don't know what version it was back then in the mid nineties.
06:35.240: But uh but did that cut a very basic uh uh project with that um
06:43.080: even though I was otherwise, you know, uh new new to uh the Mac at that point, um, and everything.
06:51.400: Anyway, um
06:52.860: school ended and and I was thrown out into the real world.
06:55.180: And uh I I initially started um doing little things here and there and then I I I was working for a a documentarian, an underwater documentarian.
07:06.240: for a few years and I I handle a lot of the elements of his uh post-production.
07:12.000: This is uh this was right when Final Cut four
07:17.400: four to four point five.
07:18.680: four point five was the move to H D and the the razzle dazzle of that.
07:23.560: So I came on and kind of helped manage
07:29.419: the final cut workflow for that.
07:31.180: I mean, he was primarily a tape-based operation.
07:33.900: He had a whole linear editing bay.
07:37.900: Speaker 1: And I take it he was he was all standard deaf at the time?
07:42.380: No, he had been shooting H D for a few years at that point.
07:46.860: He actually got
07:50.220: One of the first Sony the Sony 750, I believe it was, he would often tell people he'd show them.
07:59.180: He had a relationship with Sony, so he got
08:02.300: I think the model, like the serial number was literally like 003 or something like that.
08:09.580: So he had been shooting HD for a while, had
08:13.840: just a huge library of underwater material from all over the world.
08:18.560: But it was making a transition to nonlinear editing.
08:23.720: I went in and was kind of handling that end of things, coordinating with the studio technician who handled all the linear side.
08:35.159: So it was a lot of tape ingest and
08:38.360: And stuff like that.
08:39.400: And we did a lot of various cuts, basic color correction back then.
08:48.740: And that's when I really liked was playing around with everything in the studio, the Final Cut studio.
08:56.500: Mo the early versions of Motion and
08:59.980: compressor and and and all that.
09:02.620: So that's that's kind of really where I where I kind of I got my start.
09:07.259: Speaker 1: Yeah, you know some of those skills are things that we that we almost
09:13.360: Speaker 1: Well, frankly, we're pretty much past it.
09:15.440: Speaker 1: I mean, nobody's shooting tape anymore thanks to the tsunami in 2011.
09:21.140: Speaker 1: that that was a major thing in the industry when when even the biggest studios realized, wow, this is bad to rely on something like this.
09:31.600: Speaker 1: So the whole ingesting thing, I mean, let's I'm so glad we don't have to do that.
09:36.160: Speaker 1: I always say, you know, there's no such thing as the good old days in this business.
09:40.240: Speaker 1: But even that whole the switch over
09:44.700: Speaker 1: you know, from a tape workflow to an IT workflow.
09:48.779: Speaker 1: I mean, that was a big deal.
09:50.140: Speaker 1: Now we don't really think again, we don't really think about it now.
09:53.720: Speaker 1: And I I envy young kids who learned how to shoot and edit on their iPhone.
10:01.880: Speaker 1: It's mind boggling that that is possible.
10:05.560: Speaker 1: But it's
10:06.520: Speaker 1: You know, when you go back, it's dangerous.
10:08.920: Speaker 1: Now, you said that you took an avid course in school and then you made the avid final cut.
10:17.300: Speaker 1: Transition over that period of time.
10:21.460: Speaker 1: What was that transition like for you?
10:26.040: Um it wasn't a huge transition for me back then because Avid was was so new to me.
10:32.280: Um
10:33.920: I'd gone through a very traditional film school of shooting 16 milliliter films and cutting on moviolas and steenbecks.
10:41.200: And so by the time I got to Avid, it was like, well, here's this whole computer interface, which was foreign to me.
10:48.200: And then there was a break, a couple of lost years between graduation and starting to work for the documentarian.
11:00.320: So when I when I got to Final Cut, it there wasn't a barrier there.
11:06.240: It was like, oh, okay, this is
11:08.620: It's the same idea.
11:09.580: It's a little bit different from some of the specifics that I remember.
11:15.339: But at the time, it was definitely the
11:19.700: Speaker 1: affordable uh uh package of uh uh of what what to use right and i think at the time
11:27.540: Speaker 1: Avid was, you know, thousands and thousands, you know, tens of thousands of dollars.
11:33.060: And Final Cup was crazy expenses.
11:37.420: So for a company that was just sort of dabbling in this idea like we can get through have one seat of Final Cut for $1,200 or whatever it was.
11:48.580: and just kind of experiment with this stuff rather than invest massively in the avid hardware and software system.
11:58.180: Speaker 1: An interesting time.
11:59.460: Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of people got into Final Cut for exactly that reason.
12:04.900: Speaker 1: Yeah.
12:05.300: Speaker 1: You know, it was interesting at the Creative Summit, we got to hear from Randy Eubelos and
12:11.339: Speaker 1: And it was really fascinating to hear the whole discussion about how he created Premiere One by himself and how small the development team was.
12:26.040: Speaker 1: But I think that that has always been his goal and also then Apple's goal was to empower people.
12:35.640: Speaker 1: We're going to make a tool and we're going to get it into your hands.
12:39.800: Speaker 1: And I think that Final Cut 10 really just does that.
12:44.360: Speaker 1: It's the next step.
12:45.720: Speaker 1: I mean, it's yes, it's cheaper.
12:47.240: Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely.
12:48.360: Speaker 1: Yes, it's easier to get your feet wet.
12:51.120: Speaker 1: the whole concept of the f the fact that the software is and I can never remember the name for it.
12:58.959: Speaker 1: They have a name for it that it's easy to begin and then
13:03.540: Speaker 1: When you want it to be more complicated, it reveals itself to you.
13:07.620: Speaker 1: Or more advanced, rather.
13:10.100: Speaker 1: Right.
13:10.500: Speaker 1: I just want this to be more difficult.
13:13.459: Speaker 1: Not difficult.
13:15.120: Speaker 1: Not difficult, but more advanced.
13:16.720: Speaker 1: When you need it to be more advanced, you reveal the audio components.
13:20.800: Speaker 1: When you need it to be more advanced, you reveal the aud
13:24.080: Speaker 1: Audio CU.
13:24.800: Which is which is great.
13:25.600: I mean the the
13:28.200: The interface of Final Cut 10 is both, you know, I don't know, the angel and the devil for me, because there's so much about it that I think is.
13:39.040: Fantastic, and I'm glad they've cleared away just endless menus and palettes.
13:45.040: Okay, let's hold off on that.
13:47.839: Speaker 1: I don't want to jump too deep into Final Pack 10 yet.
13:50.700: Speaker 1: Um so so uh avid to final cut, the ingesting, the stuff, um obviously uh I I know I I I know where you're
14:01.779: Speaker 1: where you were work where you ended up working, and I don't know if you can or feel comfortable talking about that.
14:07.620: Speaker 1: Um but uh somehow at some point you left the the the documentary guy
14:15.620: And got into more traditional production?
14:17.460: I spent a while there, and that was also fun because I got to do
14:22.640: things like I got into color you know when when back in 2008 9 when Apple bought and then reintroduced their own color package
14:33.300: I dove headfirst into that and really kind of used that extensively.
14:40.100: We did a massive project
14:42.640: For the Smithsonian, that was all colored with that, but that I colored in that, which was great.
14:51.120: And then as we were wrapping up that project.
14:54.420: I was just kind of getting a little fidgety.
14:56.420: I'd spent a lot of time in the edit rooms, and I was just kind of wanting to shoot more.
15:02.900: I wanted to get into production.
15:04.740: And I'd gone on a few trips.
15:06.779: with this guy and shot at a few places around.
15:13.339: So I kind of made this step into going into production by way of live production.
15:20.500: So I started doing these live shows.
15:25.940: And that's the time that I
15:31.400: Became acquainted with Alex Lindsay and Pixel Core.
15:34.520: I'd actually known Alex Lindsay for a long time.
15:39.560: He and I both went to the same school at different times, but I
15:47.319: I'm friends with the family.
15:49.319: And anyway, so I started having conversations with him, and they were doing a lot of live streaming.
15:57.160: And I started working with him
15:59.800: Primarily in that end, you know, completely like so far away from post-production that there is no post-production.
16:07.880: You know, you do the show and it's done.
16:10.840: You walk away.
16:14.160: Total antithesis of where I'd been, which was great.
16:17.280: It was, you know, it was exciting.
16:18.800: I was definitely exercising new muscles.
16:22.320: dealing with an entirely different paradigm.
16:26.000: Speaker 1: Let me ask you a question about that.
16:27.840: Speaker 1: Let me interrupt you one second.
16:29.680: Speaker 1: Try and hold your thought.
16:33.340: Speaker 1: My journey in this business is the opposite of yours.
16:37.260: Speaker 1: I mean, I did live I did nothing but live for like the first decade of my career before I got into post.
16:45.680: Speaker 1: What do you think the most difficult thing to learn coming from Post into Live was?
16:52.400: The most difficult thing is the
16:57.760: I said paradigm, and I think that's kind of the best way to put it in the sense that with a live show
17:06.020: You know, you have your rehearsals and you get ready, and like the morning of, at a certain point, you know, two hours to show, whatever, you know, you're hitting all your marks, and you realize that the train has left the station.
17:18.100: Yes.
17:19.459: There's no stopping the train.
17:21.459: You need to do the very best that you can at the speed at which the train is moving.
17:29.300: There's no going back, there's no second take.
17:33.100: Hello yeah, yeah.
17:35.100: Yeah um and it's exhilarating.
17:37.740: Uh so so the
17:40.519: Like there's preparedness, but there's you know, there's no review.
17:44.919: There's no well, how do you like it this way?
17:46.760: There's you do it
17:48.140: And you have to do it in the moment without debating what's going to work, what's not going to work.
17:53.660: It's you have to you have to fire and hope you hit your target.
17:57.720: Speaker 1: Yeah, I used to always use the analogy of a domino reveal.
18:04.760: Speaker 1: So if you recall back in the eighties, there were these
18:08.519: Speaker 1: A lot of companies did these domino commercials.
18:11.399: Speaker 1: Not the pizza, but they would set up hundreds of thousands of dominoes in like
18:18.040: Speaker 1: They painted different colors to create the logo of something.
18:21.240: Speaker 1: And the commercial would always start.
18:22.680: Speaker 1: I'm doing this for Ben on Meerkat.
18:25.320: Speaker 1: The commercial would always start with like one finger going.
18:28.440: Speaker 1: you know, we at So and So Bank, we know how important your money is, and click.
18:33.960: Speaker 1: And then it would click over the first domino, and then it would be a series of photos of the dominoes falling over in various
18:40.540: Speaker 1: You know, close-ups and slightly wider and wider, and then they'd cut to the wide shot, and the big rainbow logo or whatever it was would reveal.
18:47.820: Speaker 1: But if you think about one of those domino reveals, you spend hundreds of hours setting them up.
18:54.080: Yeah.
18:54.720: Speaker 1: And when you push that first one over, it's gonna go.
18:59.120: Speaker 1: You're not gonna stop it.
19:00.960: Speaker 1: You know, and it's like you said, the train has left the building, it's left the station.
19:05.679: Speaker 1: That's a good analogy, though.
19:07.200: Speaker 1: I like that.
19:09.299: Speaker 1: So, yeah, there is that excitement level going into live that you don't necessarily maybe you never get the same excitement in post, that's for sure.
19:21.620: Speaker 1: There are
19:23.240: Speaker 1: Moments where it's like you lay something off or you export that final file and you go, Did I get everything?
19:30.120: Speaker 1: Should we watch it one more time?
19:32.600: Speaker 1: Maybe we should check it out for sure.
19:36.679: That's definitely the case with with the live stuff too.
19:38.840: I mean you know, and I think T Ding, Technical Directing, a live show definitely helped me be a better editor.
19:48.860: because you're making similar I won't say the same, but similar editing decisions, but again with split second timing.
19:57.500: And so you're in the middle of a show and you know you see a cut coming up and you make the switch and there's just this voice inside like, ugh, I was like four frames.
20:07.380: Too late.
20:09.060: And so there's always the editor inside him that's like, oh, I wish I could just slip that over just a little because then it would be perfect.
20:15.440: Speaker 1: I always found, and it's interesting.
20:16.960: Speaker 1: So, I did not realize that you were the TD.
20:20.000: Speaker 1: That's what, because that's what I did.
20:21.360: Speaker 1: I sat in big production trucks in big studios behind big production switchers, you know.
20:27.860: Speaker 1: and you you you're cutting it live and uh and you get into a zone where you know where the director is going
20:37.780: Speaker 1: And because I would work with directors almost exclusively until I started directing, where I've had directors actually ask me
20:49.320: Speaker 1: There was this one time where they said, Can you do me a favor?
20:54.120: Speaker 1: You're pushing the button on the T of take.
20:58.280: Speaker 1: Can you press it on the K?
21:03.260: Speaker 1: It's like, really?
21:04.780: Speaker 1: You want me to cut your words in half and then push the button?
21:08.860: Speaker 1: Okay, I'll try.
21:14.179: Speaker 1: And so, but but you're doing that.
21:15.940: Speaker 1: You're making split second decisions.
21:17.380: Speaker 1: And ultimately, you got to push you push the button at the right moment.
21:21.840: Speaker 1: And I've said this, you know, in the arguments that I've had.
21:25.520: Speaker 1: I don't know if it's fair to call it an argument, but the discussions, the lively discussions with like, you know, Austin Flack and others about the whole trim tool.
21:33.520: Speaker 1: It's like, you know what?
21:34.960: Speaker 1: I.
21:35.740: Speaker 1: I cut for 10 years without a trim tool.
21:40.780: Speaker 1: I know where I want the cut to be.
21:42.300: Speaker 1: It's not that hard.
21:44.179: Speaker 1: Okay, so now let's get to the 710 transition.
21:50.580: Speaker 1: How was that for you?
21:53.880: The seven ten transition was great in the sense that there was
22:03.640: There was sort of a sense of we're doing this and no going back.
22:06.120: So there wasn't so much an evaluation.
22:08.360: It was just we're diving in and we're going to figure this out.
22:11.400: Speaker 1: And this was at Pixel Core, right?
22:13.820: This was at Pixel Core.
22:15.100: Yeah.
22:16.700: Speaker 1: That's an interesting position to be in because, you know, I mean, I have massive respect for Alex Lindsay.
22:22.540: Speaker 1: So if Alex Lindsay told me.
22:25.019: Speaker 1: To go to Sony Vegas this week, I might listen to him, you know?
22:31.419: Speaker 1: So it that must have been interesting where you didn't have to like
22:36.500: Speaker 1: You know, well, I don't really know.
22:38.580: Speaker 1: I mean, if I because Alex is making that call for the company, right?
22:43.380: Speaker 1: So I just think that would make it a lot easier.
22:46.640: Yes.
22:47.120: I mean, having that dedication and support was fantastic, especially at a time when you're kind of angry at the software.
22:59.120: That was a thing.
23:00.080: I mean, we
23:01.019: you know, day day uh day one, we're downloading the the software.
23:04.860: And you know, so early on, uh, you know, we're literally cutting the the MacBreak Studio episodes.
23:13.260: Uh
23:14.620: with Final Cut 10.
23:16.460: And we're I I sit down to cut those things.
23:20.620: And it's, you know, from an editorial perspective, that's not a complicated show.
23:26.519: But I'm sitting in front of Final Cut 10 and I, you know, I kind of just want to grab both sides of the screen and then ram my head through the display
23:35.860: Because everything looks familiar and nothing makes sense.
23:42.740: you know, it was it was uh you know, I kinda I I I used to liken it to um those stories you hear about uh you know people who have like a stroke and they can recognize letters and words but they can't derive the meaning from them.
23:56.640: And that's kind of what it was.
23:57.680: It was like, oh, I see a track, but that's not a track.
24:00.320: And it's video, and the little green one's audio.
24:04.480: But why does it not do what I want it to do?
24:08.040: So my whole thing with the transition was it took me a solid month of cutting regularly.
24:17.240: This wasn't like casually evaluating it for a month, but like
24:21.820: Cutting with it regularly for about four weeks.
24:26.860: And around week five, my mind started that transition of like, okay, now I kind of start to understand it.
24:36.799: And then the next week, I remember kind of distinctly the moment of I cut that episode and I think I did it.
24:45.340: 30% faster than I ever would have done it in Final Cut 7.
24:48.860: Exactly.
24:50.220: And then like another and then about the next month, I was like, yep, I'm twice as fast as I was in Final Cut 7.
24:56.519: Just now, now that I understand it, now that I am in its groove, you know, I'm a superhero.
25:04.919: I mean, from a speed perspective.
25:08.140: And there was a lot I mean, we're talking about 10.
25:09.900: 0, 10.
25:10.700: 01.
25:13.180: There was some issues with the workflow.
25:18.460: and structure of it back then.
25:20.860: But once you wrap your head around what it does, you know, you're in the driver's seat of a race car.
25:28.140: Speaker 1: Yes, there's clearly two issues when it comes to learning Final Cut X.
25:31.820: Speaker 1: And we've talked about this a lot.
25:33.180: Speaker 1: There's been a couple of specific episodes of this show where I've basically just walked sometimes brand new users through some of those issues.
25:42.539: Speaker 1: There's the timeline issues, which is it like you said, I love that line.
25:48.220: Speaker 1: Everything looks familiar, but nothing makes sense.
25:51.220: Speaker 1: There's the timeline issues of learning the software.
25:53.460: Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of editors get hung up on that.
25:58.740: Speaker 1: Because like who was it?
26:01.860: Speaker 1: It was Jeff Greenberg a couple of weeks ago.
26:04.180: Speaker 1: He said
26:05.300: Speaker 1: that moving between two different applications, two different NLEs, it's all really just dialects of the same language.
26:14.200: Speaker 1: You know?
26:16.280: Speaker 1: You have to learn how to do a cut, you have to learn how to do a trim, you have to learn how to slice something in half, you got to learn how to do a three-point ed
26:24.040: Speaker 1: I mean these are dialects of a di of it of the same language.
26:27.840: Speaker 1: Avid does it a little different than Premiere.
26:30.000: Speaker 1: Premiere does it a little different than Final Fit 7.
26:32.320: Speaker 1: Final Cat 10 might be, you know.
26:35.820: Speaker 1: A little bit further removed, but it's kind of the same thing.
26:41.340: Speaker 1: But that's part of the issue of learning the application.
26:44.620: Speaker 1: The other is the workflow.
26:47.420: Speaker 1: And I would have loved to have been a fly in the wall.
26:53.179: Speaker 1: Watching Alex develop the Pixel Core workflow.
27:01.600: Speaker 1: And I don't want to get into the pre-10.
27:04.240: Speaker 1: 1 issues, although I'd love to talk about it just offline.
27:09.820: Speaker 1: Like, did well, actually, let me ask you one quick question.
27:12.380: Speaker 1: Did you guys do the sparse disk thing with jobs?
27:15.900: No, we didn't.
27:18.940: At that point, yeah, no, we were we were all just doing it.
27:23.100: Handling episodes well, groups of episodes kind of independently.
27:27.060: Speaker 1: So like you'd have a group of episodes on one drive, it would have an events folder, it would have a projects folder on that drive, and then individual elements would be divided into different show folders maybe, something like that.
27:40.640: Yes.
27:41.440: Speaker 1: Okay.
27:41.840: Yeah, that's pretty much all it's going to be.
27:43.280: Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:43.440: Speaker 1: And again, there are so many people now that are using Final Cut 10 on a daily basis that never cut.
27:50.240: Speaker 1: on anything prior to ten point one.
27:52.240: Speaker 1: And what I will say to you is, thank God you didn't have to, because it was difficult.
27:59.040: Speaker 1: There was, whatever it was, two years, two point five years of huh?
28:04.419: Speaker 1: What?
28:05.620: Yeah, no, absolutely.
28:07.460: The free 10.
28:08.260: 1 versions were and I loved it.
28:11.059: I loved it.
28:11.860: But just managing honestly managing projects and events
28:15.740: as two separate things was like that relationship just always felt a little clunky.
28:21.980: Once there was the cohesiveness of the library.
28:26.060: And I actually kind of I got I kind of got lucky there because
28:32.740: I stepped away from doing full-time work for Pixel Core and was doing some producing in the Bay Area and some other stuff and actually kind of
28:41.440: Put Final Cut 10 down for about six or seven months.
28:46.880: And that was right at the transition to 10.
28:49.760: 1.
28:50.639: So I came back to it.
28:53.060: And oh, it was a big one, you know, 10.
28:55.460: 1 update.
28:56.420: I download it and like I see how the library things work.
28:59.700: And it was like, and I kind of just felt like, oh, great.
29:03.060: It's better now.
29:04.420: Speaker 1: This makes perfect sense.
29:06.679: Yeah, yeah.
29:09.000: So it was kind of this weird sort of time away.
29:11.399: And then I came back to it and I was like, oh, it's even better than I remember.
29:15.000: Speaker 1: Yeah.
29:15.560: Speaker 1: That you know, and we we and I started this show right before, like literally, like a couple of weeks before the 10.
29:21.640: Speaker 1: 1 update.
29:23.000: Speaker 1: Um, and it was
29:26.980: Speaker 1: I knew it was coming.
29:29.059: Speaker 1: Not that I knew it, not like anybody had called me from Apple and said, hey, this is what's going to happen.
29:33.860: Speaker 1: But you knew it.
29:34.820: Speaker 1: You just as a user, I mean, first of all, we're at 10.
29:38.100: Speaker 1: 0.
29:38.659: Speaker 1: 9.
29:38.980: Speaker 1: Okay, so something's happening.
29:40.880: Speaker 1: It's been a couple of months since the last update.
29:43.360: Speaker 1: Okay, something's bound to be happening.
29:45.840: Speaker 1: It's obviously going to be ten point one, but what's going to be different?
29:49.520: Speaker 1: And you know, wait.
29:50.720: Speaker 1: And then, of course, there was the whole
29:52.840: Speaker 1: Quote unquote reveal that Alex Golner did, where he started poking around inside iMovie.
30:00.280: Speaker 1: So we were convinced that something big was going to happen.
30:04.360: Speaker 1: And
30:05.740: Speaker 1: And it definitely, it definitely was big.
30:07.980: Speaker 1: So, again, if you're new to Final Pet 10 and you didn't have to deal with 10.
30:12.940: Speaker 1: 0
30:13.620: Speaker 1: You know, whatever.
30:15.620: Speaker 1: You know, thank God.
30:17.620: Speaker 1: It's good.
30:18.420: Speaker 1: It's very good you didn't have to deal with that.
30:21.220: Speaker 1: But even still, like you said.
30:24.179: Speaker 1: You know, you and I are kind of in the same boat.
30:26.260: Speaker 1: It took us a while to get there.
30:28.100: Speaker 1: Then we got there, and you realize you're 30% faster, maybe 100% faster, doing things in half the amount of time.
30:37.840: Speaker 1: And I found that very quickly.
30:40.240: Speaker 1: Like, even though I was forcing myself to learn the timeline, I call it, you know, timeline kung fu.
30:50.200: Speaker 1: Yeah.
30:51.160: Speaker 1: So even though you're dealing with like, how, wait, wait, wait, wait.
30:54.200: Speaker 1: This should be really simple.
30:56.200: Speaker 1: I'd like to be able to just do this.
30:58.419: Speaker 1: Well, I can't do that.
30:59.539: Speaker 1: So, what can I do?
31:00.419: Speaker 1: Oh, I could do that.
31:01.460: Speaker 1: Okay.
31:01.940: Speaker 1: So, even though I'm slowing down to rethink some things that potentially or probably should have been really simple, I was still faster.
31:10.600: Speaker 1: I was still quite a bit faster.
31:13.000: Yeah.
31:13.480: Well, you know, something was, I think, Steve Martin said early on was
31:23.140: The paradigm shift is that the Final Cut 7, I'll just talk about Final Cut 7 as the previous version of the NLE.
31:31.240: Really is designed around.
31:32.680: Yes, there's the film linear editing metaphor at the heart of it, but the basic concept is a structure.
31:41.919: that you have in place in the form of your software, that you fill in your media to tell the story that you want to tell.
31:51.059: But Final Cut 10 kind of reverses that.
31:54.740: And now it is about the media that you want to tell that you use to tell your story.
32:02.919: and you use the software to support that storytelling rather than the media to support the software.
32:09.480: Speaker 1: Interesting.
32:11.160: Speaker 1: I don't know that I completely follow that.
32:14.800: Yeah, it's a like I understand where he's coming from with it.
32:21.600: I mean, you can only take the metaphor so far, I guess, because ultimately software is going to
32:26.679: Gotta always support the storytelling.
32:30.519: But I see I think that comes down to just things like the magnetic timeline.
32:35.080: I mean, one of the most core principles of Final Cut 10.
32:40.600: You know, you've got a timeline, and tell your story in the timeline.
32:45.240: Don't worry about where it fits on the timeline, what frame that you drop the clip into.
32:51.900: um it's it's not beholden to that specific architecture.
32:57.340: Speaker 1: Because it's f i because it inherently is flexible and will slide down, pull back, whatever it needs to do based on what you put before or after it.
33:06.519: Speaker 1: Kind of.
33:07.320: Right.
33:08.360: It's smart enough to know that you have a shot and then you want to go to the next shot.
33:12.120: And if you don't drop that clip in your timeline precisely on the next
33:16.140: Frame, it knows, yeah, but you just want to go there.
33:18.700: You don't want to, you don't want blank frames for three frames or whatever.
33:23.580: Speaker 1: I do have less flash frames.
33:25.420: Speaker 1: I do have less flash frames when I cut and final pad 10.
33:29.120: You kind of have to ask for them, which is good.
33:33.360: Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's interesting that you say that.
33:35.840: Speaker 1: And this is one of my premises.
33:38.960: Speaker 1: One of the things that I always say is that the
33:43.440: Speaker 1: Um the default nature of Final Cut 7 involved a lot of extra
33:51.880: Speaker 1: keystrokes or modifier keys when you were using keyboard shortcuts in order to get advanced features like
34:00.160: Speaker 1: Ripple paste, ripple delete.
34:05.200: Speaker 1: You know, and a lot of editors never learned those keyboard shortcuts.
34:12.780: Speaker 1: And so when they wanted to put a shot in between two things, I mean, how many times did we use the what was it, shift?
34:22.799: Speaker 1: T or T and shift T.
34:25.440: Speaker 1: So grab all tracks, pick it up, drive it down for five minutes, drop in a one-minute clip, and then pull it all back.
34:33.200: Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, when you think about it,
34:37.020: Speaker 1: That was like doing brain surgery with a chainsaw.
34:42.780: Speaker 1: It's not a smart way to work, but if I can just drop my cursor in.
34:47.260: Yeah.
34:47.500: You know, the amount of times you throw stuff out of sync.
34:50.060: I mean.
34:51.760: the amount of sync issues I've had in Final Cut 10 as opposed to Final Cut seven, I mean, it's night and day.
34:58.000: I mean, audio sync is
35:00.920: Well, I shouldn't say it's no longer an issue, but it's designed so that it makes sense.
35:08.920: Speaker 1: Okay, this is interesting, Jeff, because you're saying something that I firmly believe in.
35:14.440: Speaker 1: I totally agree with what you're saying.
35:16.440: Speaker 1: However, I deal a lot with people that are not
35:23.200: Speaker 1: How do I say it?
35:25.120: Speaker 1: They're cutting in Final Cut 10 basically because we have made the decision here at Slice to cut in Final Cut 10, and they really don't want to be cutting in 10.
35:33.599: Speaker 1: They've learned it.
35:34.720: Speaker 1: They're like, whatever.
35:36.079: Speaker 1: I'll use your little toy app.
35:37.920: Speaker 1: You know, shut up.
35:40.000: Speaker 1: And
35:41.120: Speaker 1: And one of the biggest complaints that I get from those people, and these are track-based, you know, Premiere Pro editors now, they were Final Cut 7 editors.
35:51.160: Speaker 1: Oh, and I have a funny story to tell you.
35:52.920: Speaker 1: Remind me to tell you about the new the premiere edit that's coming to our shop next week.
36:00.920: Speaker 1: This is a funny story.
36:03.760: Speaker 1: And I can't use any names, so whatever.
36:10.800: Speaker 1: But one of the things that I get from premiere editors or final cut seven editors
36:15.660: Speaker 1: is that they think that sync issues are a bigger issue because they don't understand the nature of the connected clip.
36:27.260: Speaker 1: So like let's say and and I will I will say that this is potentially a problem when you're dealing with something that's like a music edit
36:36.119: Speaker 1: And you want to put something else in and you've worked your workflow is such that
36:43.940: Speaker 1: you started working on the tail end and you got everything really just exactly right on f five beats of music or whatever, four beats of music.
36:51.940: Speaker 1: And now you're mucking up with the beginning of the timeline, and you're not you don't understand the connected clip and how it works either for you or against you.
37:04.680: Well, I will say that in that specific scenario of cutting two music
37:12.020: Where you are placing your edits based on the rhythm and the tempo of the music.
37:20.420: That is the one place where sync and the way the timeline in Final Cut 10 works is not hugely supportive of that workflow because you've
37:33.220: you've cut the first whatever verse in chorus and you've cut the last verse in chorus, but you you know there's a there's a piece in the middle that you want to go back and get right, but that'll throw off everything later.
37:44.740: So that is a
37:47.520: a problem area with the way this functions.
37:52.880: And I don't know if I've found a great solution for that other than that's when I end up using secondary storyline.
38:01.140: is because then I can kind of keep ev keep everything in in sync to the connected music clip.
38:08.579: And then when I have it right, then I can just slam that second story storyline down into the primary.
38:16.240: Speaker 1: Um yeah uh or you could actually how come I've never done this
38:25.800: Speaker 1: You could actually put your music in this primary storyline.
38:29.320: Speaker 1: What's wrong with that?
38:30.600: Speaker 1: I know that's something I've tried to do once.
38:33.140: I mean, it's a l you you what was that?
38:35.619: I missed it.
38:36.579: Speaker 1: I said you you could put your music in the primary storyline
38:41.660: Yeah, absolutely.
38:44.140: And have all the video be the connected.
38:47.740: Speaker 1: Why have I not thought of that before?
38:50.140: Speaker 1: That's not a bad idea.
38:51.660: Speaker 1: And then you could have like that little ending session as a secondary.
38:57.020: You lose all the power of the magnetic storyline.
38:59.820: that way.
39:00.460: But if people just have to work if people are in that track based paradigm, then that's how you do it.
39:06.780: Put the audio track as the primary storyline or just have a gap and connect
39:12.140: Connect the music to the gap clip, the gap clip that's five minutes long or whatever, and then all your audio on the video clips on the secondary storyline.
39:22.040: There's ways around it, but then you're then you're bending over backwards to you know go back in time.
39:27.240: Speaker 1: You know, it'd be great if you could take something
39:31.720: Speaker 1: If you had the option, and I'm literally, I'm just like thinking this out loud, there might be some reasons why it's a bad idea.
39:38.040: Speaker 1: Or the people at Apple could be listening, hey, Steve, and say, oh, that's not a bad idea, Fenwick, let's try that.
39:44.740: Speaker 1: What if you could connect, not if you could make a connected clip that isn't only so connected clips or a connected storyline
39:54.020: Speaker 1: always connects to the pr whatever is in the primary storyline.
39:58.180: Speaker 1: Okay?
39:59.140: Speaker 1: That's the way it works now.
40:00.660: Speaker 1: Even if you have two or three secondary storylines stacked on top of each other, they all connect to the primary storyline.
40:08.400: Speaker 1: Yes.
40:09.040: Speaker 1: What if you could somehow, with some keystroke tomfoolery, you could say, I want to connect this primary storyline or secondary storyline
40:22.420: Speaker 1: To something in an audio clip.
40:27.460: Speaker 1: See what I'm saying?
40:28.420: Speaker 1: So it's not now that little section of the music where the flash frame edits happen or whatever.
40:35.539: Speaker 1: And I'm saying flash frame like like good flash frames, you know, like they match something, some beat of the music, whatever.
40:41.460: Speaker 1: You could say no, no, no, no.
40:42.740: Speaker 1: Don't connect that to the primary storyline, connect that to the to the audio track down below.
40:48.960: Speaker 1: And now that never that little secondary storyline never gets out of sync with that hunk of audio.
40:56.319: Speaker 1: That's not a bad idea.
40:59.060: If you want that to be your kind of key point of sync, yeah.
41:02.500: I mean, you can move the the connection point of the secondary storyline wherever you want.
41:07.380: Speaker 1: Yes, you can, but the point being is, if I start mucking with clips in between
41:12.160: Speaker 1: or the client says, Oh, that sound bite um can you d there's one more phrase that you trimmed off.
41:18.080: Speaker 1: Can we just add that in?
41:19.520: Speaker 1: Ugh.
41:20.700: Speaker 1: Yeah, I can, but everything is timed to the music after here.
41:24.620: Speaker 1: You know, so you might have to do it anyway and then have to deal with it.
41:28.060: Speaker 1: But I want to know how it was timed to the music.
41:31.180: Speaker 1: I don't know.
41:31.500: Speaker 1: I just think it would be cool if you could have a secondary storyline.
41:34.900: Speaker 1: connect to something in the audio bed.
41:38.980: Right.
41:40.260: Speaker 1: There might be some reasons why that doesn't work.
41:42.260: Speaker 1: So but anyway, Apple, we would like to maybe have that discussion.
41:46.700: Speaker 1: Okay.
41:47.500: Speaker 1: So in terms of working with the software then today, in today's day and age, what are some of your
41:59.880: Speaker 1: What are some of the things that excite you the most?
42:05.079: Speaker 1: Or some of the things that you're like, oh my God, I'm so glad this works this way?
42:13.520: What are the things that excite me the most about working with it?
42:20.880: You know, I would say the
42:27.300: obviously the speed.
42:28.180: I mean, the speed's always going to going to be the primary factor for me.
42:33.920: But what's honestly most exciting in the last year or so has been the community and the tonal shift of
42:47.460: This is your piece of piece of candy prosumer software.
42:55.400: to people taking it seriously and uh the the the third-party plug-in community um who have
43:04.420: filled in the the the the gaps of what Final Cut 10 doesn't do.
43:13.039: The concern over exporting AFs as one of the very first complaints and the ongoing one
43:23.380: Yeah, that's a valid complaint coming from the previous version of the NLE or the other NLEs out there.
43:33.960: But XtruPro does a pretty fantastic job, dead simple, totally worth the money.
43:40.440: And when I need it, when I needed it, I bought it.
43:44.120: Right.
43:45.960: I didn't pre-purchase features that I don't need.
43:49.560: Speaker 1: Were you part of that Twitter rant a couple of weeks ago where
43:53.940: Speaker 1: I think it was the very end of June.
43:56.339: Speaker 1: Actually, I know it was the very end of June because I jumped into this thing.
44:00.339: Speaker 1: I think somebody included me on it.
44:02.820: Speaker 1: Like, damn it, how come Final Cut doesn't have this?
44:05.300: Speaker 1: And I was like.
44:06.800: Speaker 1: I can't answer this in 140 characters.
44:08.880: Speaker 1: So I went over to my blog and I wrote a page and I was like, look, the vast majority of people don't need it.
44:15.040: Speaker 1: Buy it when you need it.
44:16.799: Yeah, I did see that.
44:19.279: Yeah.
44:19.760: And I thought your blog post was spot on.
44:23.279: You know, the thing is, like I said, I've been using Final Cut 10 since
44:27.240: 2011.
44:28.520: I bought X2 Pro a year ago because that's when I needed it.
44:36.040: So
44:37.760: From a subscription model standpoint, you know, that's how many months of a feature that I was renting that I didn't use.
44:48.740: Speaker 1: Wait, wait, wait.
44:49.380: Speaker 1: Was that a jab against Adobe when you said subscription model?
44:54.500: Maybe.
44:55.460: That was just a general statement on.
44:59.240: on how these things work.
45:00.920: Yeah.
45:02.280: Not directed at anyone in particular.
45:05.240: Speaker 1: Only directed at companies that make me rent my software.
45:10.100: I'm yeah, you know, I it's interesting to see that shift.
45:15.380: You know, it's kind of the same thing with music.
45:17.780: You know.
45:18.880: iTunes was was and is still a proponent of buy your music, but now there's there's so many rental services, I mean, or subscription services.
45:28.960: Including Apple Music.
45:30.820: Including Apple Music.
45:32.020: And it's a totally different thing.
45:33.940: So you can't equate how you consume your music with how you use your software.
45:41.120: But it's an interesting business model.
45:43.760: Speaker 1: That's a really interesting comparison that I had not thought of until you just mentioned this.
45:49.839: Speaker 1: So I remember in the beginning of iTunes and actually the iTunes store, iTunes Music Store, Steve said on stage when he was introducing it, I remember the day I was sitting on the
46:02.260: Speaker 1: Floor at the Palo Alto Apple store to watch a live feed in their theater there.
46:07.460: Speaker 1: And I remember as the as the um uh
46:13.080: Speaker 1: the broadcast finished.
46:14.600: Speaker 1: I literally opened up my laptop, I pulled it out, I downloaded the software and I bought a YouTube song.
46:21.720: Speaker 1: while it was still sitting inside the Palo Alto Apple store.
46:25.160: Speaker 1: So but one of the things he said was, if you give people an easy way to purchase, they will purchase rather than steal.
46:34.280: Speaker 1: Okay, that was sort of the premise of the Apple of the iTunes Music Store in the beginning.
46:41.400: Speaker 1: If you give them the option to purchase simply, they will purchase rather than steal.
46:46.640: Speaker 1: And I think that when you look at the stats of what the iTunes Store has done over the last it's now been twelve years, I believe.
46:56.360: Speaker 1: I think that theorem or that theory held true for a long time.
47:05.880: Speaker 1: Spotify, Pandora, whatever the other ones are.
47:10.860: Speaker 1: A lot of people have wanted to do that to rent, or you know what?
47:15.260: Speaker 1: I've never used any of those.
47:16.940: Speaker 1: So I would rather just buy the song, whatever.
47:20.680: Speaker 1: So but now Apple has made a sh a shift.
47:24.119: Speaker 1: They bought Beats, they brought Jimmy Iovine in and Dr.
47:27.720: Speaker 1: Dre, and now they have Apple music.
47:31.079: Speaker 1: Do you think that might be a
47:34.700: Speaker 1: harbinger or a a signpost where we might see Apple moving toward more of a rent your music or excuse me, rent your software
47:48.320: Yeah, it it is.
47:49.680: And I think it was the right choice to offer that as an option.
47:54.640: I mean, Spotify has been successful in RDO and Pandora.
47:59.880: And I've used those services.
48:01.800: And because I don't want to rent access to music, I haven't I've been a free subscriber to those services.
48:12.040: And they drive you nuts with ads because they have to.
48:17.960: That's the business model.
48:19.080: They're going to sell ads until you pay to not hear them anymore.
48:22.280: Speaker 1: Is that the deal with like Pandora and Spotify that there's a free version and then a paid version?
48:27.320: Yeah, yeah.
48:28.040: Free accounts, all all you want.
48:30.440: And, you know, the
48:33.100: every every three minutes or or like every every three songs there's an ad.
48:38.620: The the best part is I've been realizing that like
48:41.880: they'll have uh ads at at whatever uh song breaks.
48:44.760: But then if you interact and you're like, oh, I don't want to hear the song, skip ahead.
48:48.839: Like if you
48:50.220: Interact with it at all, then you're buying yourself an ad.
48:53.500: Like, if you skip a track, you're going to hear an ad first.
48:56.940: Interesting.
48:58.040: Speaker 1: Interesting.
48:58.680: So it's like I'm scared to touch like if I if there's a song that I just don't want to hear, it's like, oh, if I fast forward, I'm going to have to hear an ad.
49:04.920: Speaker 1: Millie Vanilli again?
49:08.640: I would are you'd just get past Millie Vanilli?
49:11.040: Are you kidding me?
49:12.400: Put that on repeat, man.
49:13.600: Speaker 1: Justin Bieber again.
49:18.220: Oh, all right.
49:19.099: Speaker 1: We uh okay yeah, no, but but it's an interesting it's an interesting theory because it is the beginning of Apple
49:27.339: Speaker 1: renting new stuff.
49:28.700: Speaker 1: I also think it's really fascinating and I don't know what it means, although no, I guess I do.
49:35.040: Speaker 1: that Apple has, for the last couple of years, they've been giving us every update to Final Cut 10.
49:40.080: Speaker 1: Is that going to continue forever?
49:42.080: Or are I wondered about that myself.
49:44.560: And I've wondered about that about every app on the App Store.
49:47.840: Of like just free updates in perpetuity.
49:51.200: But then they introduce another person which essentially acts as the upgrade function.
49:57.700: But that's what X2 Pro does.
50:00.099: Speaker 1: But what is my in-app there's no in-app purchases on on Final Cut.
50:06.360: Speaker 1: No, but it's a good point.
50:09.320: Speaker 1: Yeah.
50:09.560: Speaker 1: Apple got my $300 and they have not asked me for any more money.
50:15.400: No, they haven't.
50:18.280: Which is awesome.
50:21.800: Speaker 1: I was talking to once again, I was talking to some Apple people, one particular Apple person, I won't say who.
50:29.540: Speaker 1: And I had the discussion about how a listener on the show had asked me what my favorite feature of Final Cut X was.
50:39.520: Speaker 1: I said, Oh, that's easy.
50:40.960: Speaker 1: And I reached into my pocket and I pulled out my phone.
50:43.440: Speaker 1: And I said, This is my favorite feature of Funnel Cut 10.
50:48.279: Speaker 1: And he's like, what?
50:50.359: Speaker 1: And I said, the phone.
50:52.200: Speaker 1: The phone.
50:53.960: Speaker 1: The iPhone.
50:55.440: Speaker 1: The iPhone is my favorite feature of Final Pad 10 because the iPhone has been so ridiculously successful.
51:02.000: Speaker 1: If you look at the quarterly reports
51:05.160: Speaker 1: Right.
51:07.000: Speaker 1: Apple just you know, they don't depend on massive success from Final Cut 10 to to keep the doors open and the electricity on.
51:20.280: Speaker 1: And that enabled them to answer.
51:23.800: Speaker 1: And again, this came out in the Alex Golner Randy Eubelos interview: that Steve Jobs had asked.
51:33.500: Speaker 1: The you know, Randy and his team, I want you to rethink video editing.
51:39.339: Speaker 1: Rethink it from the ground up.
51:41.020: Speaker 1: Let's make this better.
51:42.740: Speaker 1: And then there was the whole story, and I think I mentioned it on the last episode or the one with Jeff two weeks ago, where Steve called Randy, you know, before he had passed away and he said, Do you believe in this app?
51:57.039: Speaker 1: Because again, do the math.
51:58.880: Speaker 1: Model Qatin came out in July of 2011 and Steve Job passed away in November.
52:03.920: Speaker 1: So he saw this.
52:05.920: Speaker 1: He saw the rollout.
52:07.940: Speaker 1: And he said, Do you believe in this app?
52:11.700: Speaker 1: And Randy said, Yes.
52:13.380: Speaker 1: And Steve said, Then I do too.
52:16.200: Speaker 1: So I thought that was a huge vote of confidence.
52:19.400: Yeah, yeah.
52:21.160: Yeah, that was I mean, that was a great story.
52:25.560: I think it shows the
52:30.260: the better qualities of Steve Jobs.
52:33.780: You hear all the stories, but a guy who will implicitly trust the person in charge of that product to
52:42.160: To find its success is a great quality.
52:46.480: Speaker 1: To find its success.
52:49.600: Speaker 1: Is that what you just said?
52:50.960: That's what I said, yeah.
52:52.240: Speaker 1: That's an interesting phrase.
52:55.300: Well, you know, I success is you know, there's all kinds of whatever motivational posters, but you know, success isn't isn't a moment.
53:04.260: It isn't
53:05.940: A finish line, unless you're an athlete.
53:10.660: But it's sort of what they say about editing, to bring it back home, is
53:18.100: You're never finished with the edit, you just stop at a certain point.
53:22.580: And I think that's kind of the same for success.
53:25.620: It's like you don't just reach success, you are constantly working at it.
53:30.840: Final Cut 10 wasn't a success.
53:33.480: And to a degree, they'll the team will always be working towards a success.
53:41.520: Speaker 1: I like that.
53:42.800: Speaker 1: To find its success.
53:44.880: Speaker 1: What do you see in the future?
53:47.520: Speaker 1: If you could sneak in, this is a question I forgot to ask the last couple of people, which that's the downside of
53:54.339: Speaker 1: not doing the show for so long.
53:55.859: Speaker 1: If you could sneak in the back door at Apple, what would be and kind of bug the programmers, what would be the feature that Jeff would want to see
54:06.520: Speaker 1: them add to the to Funnel Fed 10?
54:14.119: The the features that I would want to see
54:21.160: I'm such a fan of the workflow overall that most of my feature requests
54:28.080: feel kind of superficial, like workspace customization.
54:35.760: I love that I can clear out all the stuff all those features that I'm not using in the particular phase of my edit.
54:43.280: But then to bring them back, I have to manually pull open pallets and inspectors and all this stuff.
54:47.760: And I would love to just have, you know.
54:51.000: my edit workspace and my color workspace and my audio workspace.
54:54.920: And then I can just, you know, keyboard shortcut to them and my Windows and Inspectors tile.
55:03.320: Into their respective sizes and places.
55:06.920: Speaker 1: I completely agree.
55:08.120: Speaker 1: And I don't think that's a superficial request.
55:10.360: Speaker 1: I think that when you
55:13.120: Speaker 1: When you do this every single day, you know, 12 hours a day, those are things that make a big difference.
55:20.480: And I work similarly to how you said, which is.
55:23.420: I don't sit down and be like, Okay, this is my rough edit, and now I'm going to do cut you know, I'm I'm every every clip is like, okay, here's a good edit, but I
55:31.660: I just I have to fix the exposure on this and I you know so I'm like constantly going between audio and color and cutting and title you know well maybe not titling but you know
55:41.560: there's i it I don't think there's the same sequence of the workflow um uh a as there was in in previous years of yes, the offline and then the online.
55:52.920: It's it's um
55:54.520: It's all at once.
55:55.880: And so I want to be able to switch into that mode immediately.
56:00.040: And then switch back.
56:02.520: Speaker 1: I'm behind you 100% on customized work views.
56:08.360: Speaker 1: Anything else?
56:10.360: Speaker 1: They're listening.
56:11.960: Speaker 1: You may as well have another choice.
56:14.760: Let's see, what else?
56:18.380: One of the things that's been bugging me is keyframe interpolation.
56:23.980: I wish that there was customization there.
56:29.400: Speaker 1: Like the sort of automated ease in, ease out stuff?
56:33.640: Yeah.
56:34.280: Like so when you uh uh
56:37.900: when you're doing a when you keyframe position, I think it automatically ease in, ease out, which is great, unless you don't want that.
56:47.660: And conversely, when you keyframe scale,
56:50.599: It doesn't ease in.
56:52.119: It's just a flat interpolation.
56:54.200: So I would and so if you ever try and combine the two
56:59.460: keyframing scale and position together, that's horrible because your scale is a flat interpolation and your position is ease in, ease out, and they just don't work together.
57:11.940: It looks
57:13.099: Ridiculous.
57:15.660: So, you know, I'd love to be able to choose.
57:19.660: And I don't expect to do like fully keyframe the curve or whatever, but I would like to be able to choose.
57:25.660: you know, flat, he's in, he's out, what have you.
57:29.500: Speaker 1: That's a great observation.
57:30.780: Speaker 1: I don't think I had noticed that.
57:33.820: Speaker 1: I guess I'm not doing that move very often.
57:37.700: I don't do it that often.
57:39.860: Speaker 1: Obviously, because you don't like the way it looks.
57:42.580: Well, yeah, exactly.
57:43.780: I can't.
57:44.580: It's like, ugh.
57:45.559: And then I have to go out to motion to do it, which is fine.
57:48.920: But it's one of those things, like I shouldn't have to go out to motion for this.
57:53.079: Speaker 1: Right.
57:54.200: Speaker 1: Very cool.
57:55.480: Speaker 1: All right.
57:55.880: Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, we should wrap this up.
57:57.640: Speaker 1: It's been about an hour.
57:59.720: Speaker 1: Appreciate your time.
58:02.760: Speaker 1: If people want to find you, how do they find you online?
58:09.880: Two big places right now.
58:12.680: Well, you can always find me on Twitter.
58:14.599: I am at Jeffrey O.
58:15.960: I spell my name with a G, so that's G E O F F R E Y O.
58:22.020: And the big push in our efforts right now is the film we shot last year.
58:27.940: It's called Boca.
58:29.700: That's B O K E H.
58:33.220: cut on Final Cut 10.
58:34.500: It's a feature film.
58:35.700: If you go to boca the movie dot com, you can see all our information there.
58:42.579: We're finishing it up and it should hopefully be out next year sometime.
58:46.760: Speaker 1: Um give me give me the the the short pitch about what the movie is.
58:53.560: Uh the
58:55.120: Film is about a young American couple who go on a vacation to Iceland, and a few days into their vacation, they wake up and everyone on earth has disappeared, and they are alone in the world.
59:08.520: Creepy full of creeps.
59:13.720: Speaker 1: Very good.
59:14.440: Speaker 1: Well, Jeff, thanks again, and let's hope everybody's listening down there in Cupertino because I agree.
59:21.160: Speaker 1: I like your input.
59:22.360: Speaker 1: All right?
59:23.000: Speaker 1: Yeah.
59:23.560: Speaker 1: Thanks.
59:24.040: Speaker 1: All right, we'll do this again sometime.
59:25.400: Speaker 1: Take care.
59:26.840: Speaker 1: So I don't know if I'm going to be able to edit out
59:29.240: Speaker 1: All of the awkwardness, but we were having some Skype issues during that interview, and I made markers of things to clean up.
59:38.859: Speaker 1: In true form for this show, I try not to do a lot of post-production.
59:44.539: Speaker 1: That's my excuse for saying I forget to do the post-production.
59:48.420: Speaker 1: Uh but um there were definitely some things that I was going to clean up.
59:51.220: Speaker 1: So if I missed any of those, I apologize for that.
59:54.100: Speaker 1: Um Skype was just getting being a pain that day.
59:57.780: Speaker 1: Um so anyway
59:59.380: Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. 01:00:00.339 Speaker 1: I am already in the process of trying to set up another episode with Jeff. 01:00:01.460 Speaker 1: And I want to get Sam Messman on, and we're going to talk about his post-workflow for his indie bokeh. 01:00:06.840 Speaker 1: And again, go check that out at boca themovie. 01:00:14.440 Speaker 1: com. 01:00:17.560 Speaker 1: Interesting premise. 01:00:18.040 Speaker 1: And I'm tr I'm going to try and get Sam and Jeff together to talk about indie workflow. 01:00:20.380 Speaker 1: We talked about that on if you go to the FCP Works NAB twenty fifteen 01:00:27.580 Speaker 1: search for that on YouTube. 01:00:34.980 Speaker 1: One of the cuts that you're going to find is called FCPX for Indies. 01:00:37.140 Speaker 1: And we talked about a movie called Suburban Cowboy. 01:00:41.300 Speaker 1: But this is a common thing. 01:00:43.940 Speaker 1: This is coming up where people are trying to figure out 01:00:45.220 Speaker 1: their best workflow for how to use the libraries and the events and the keywords and whatnot. 01:00:47.840 Speaker 1: So that's going to be a whole nother episode, and we'll do that. 01:00:53.760 Speaker 1: In short order, maybe in the next month or two. 01:00:57.540 Speaker 1: So, anyway, thanks for listening. 01:00:59.780 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. 01:01:01.060 Speaker 1: Go check out Premium Beat, and we will have more of these coming up in the coming weeks. 01:01:02.100 Speaker 1: So, thanks for listening. 01:01:09.620 Speaker 1: We'll talk again later. 01:01:10.580