Episode 110

FCG110 - FCPX gets Big Boy Pants (feat. Alexander Snelling)

FCPX in a shared environment is a real thing, a VERY real thing. If you don’t believe it then you need to listen to Alexander Snelling. A little over a year ago Alexander released “The Document”, the definitive write up of how to share media in FCPX and work in a shared environment. This is an episode a long time in the making and we’re VERY happy to have Alexander join us on The Grill. “Chinese whispers” Kill all the misconceptions that people BELIEVE about FCPX FCG074 - Austin Flack Avid in TV picking an application

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Featuring

• Chris Fenwick
• Alexander Snelling - @slackalicefilms

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Transcription

00:00.001: Let me read that a little more.

00:00.160: He took it down.

00:00.160: go check out premiumbeat.

00:00.160: The search tool is great.

00:00.160: That I've been wanting to talk to for about a year and a half now.

00:00.160: I don't think I hear it.

00:00.160: that I'm just some kind of Final Cut Pro Ten charity consultant who just gives out workflow advice for free and I have had to sort of nip that in the bud.

00:00.160: push comes to shove when people have hard deadlines that absolutely, positively have to be hit in an efficient way, I think those people, hopefully, understand this.

00:00.160: And considering you only had seven hours to knock this whole thing out.

00:00.160: I'm going to put a link to the document, the shared environment document, in the web on the show notes.

00:00.160: I think it's the it's the right thing to do.

00:00.160: That and that's kind of the downside of nonlinear editing, if you will, that you know, well we could do that later, right?

00:00.160: Magnum opus, that is that was a lot of work because I really, really wanted to get it right and I haven't found anything in it that um

00:00.160: You know, it was many years ago.

00:00.160: lose their shit sometimes and and and the whole system breaks down.

00:00.160: You're at the cusp of something and you can make right decisions or wrong decisions.

00:00.160: And then a week later you come back and go, Yeah, yeah, yeah, forget what I said.

00:00.160: And I've I th hopefully made it simple in certain parts.

00:00.160: the workflow is written in stone and they don't get a chance to say that's that's isn't that gonna you know be a bit weird at the end of the workflow and it's it's it's working to the

00:00.160: I've spent time in edit suites just thinking, why do we always have to do this?

00:00.160: And then what I want to do is I want to talk about the specific features inside Final Cut 10 and how they help this come about.

00:00.160: I think most of them have got solutions which are based more around one NLE than others.

00:00.160: actually on film 10 or so years ago and I had to get a 35 neg cut and then a print and it cost virtually the price of a of a feature film.

00:00.160: When we sit down, and I say we, when we sit down and we look at our blank program monitor, we look at our blank timeline

00:00.160: for the specific delivery requirements.

00:00.160: It's not a major thing.

00:00.160: And I guess there's not a whole lot of those in ballrooms around the country or worldwide.

00:00.160: This handful of features.

00:00.160: Yeah, which was always always fun because it seemed to change every every release.

00:00.160: I mean, I just recently merged two library excuse me, two events together.

00:00.160: Yeah, I quite I quite like that anyway.

00:00.160: umbrella.

00:00.160: filmmaking and and likewise as well.

00:00.160: You know, Ridley Scott, or whatever, I want to know about XML.

00:00.160: NAB is coming up.

00:00.160: They're going to be posting detailed rundown, if you will, of what we'll be doing in their suite.

00:00.160: All right, so that was Alexander.

00:00.160: I'm excited to be a part of that, working with FCP Works over there in Las Vegas Town.

00:00.240: And it was, um, hold on, let me, let me call it up here.

00:00.240: Haven't heard of Slack Alice Films?

00:00.240: Alexander, not last year, but in December of 2013, released what I have referred to on this show as the document.

00:00.240: But it's gigantically confusing.

00:00.240: There are two videos.

00:00.240: why you would want to work one way over the other.

00:00.240: Hey, good morning, and welcome to another episode of Funnelcat Grill.

00:00.240: Well, um Alexander did the um oh gee, I have the wrong URL here.

00:00.240: Anyway, Alexander is a great guy and had a wonderful chat.

00:00.240: I hope you enjoy this conversation with Alexander from Slack Alice Films.

00:00.240: Primarily, you're going to hear about some things that you're going to want to take a deeper look at outside the scope of just this discussion.

00:00.240: Yeah, no, thank you.

00:00.240: Or as or as Alex Goldner says, ten ought nine.

00:00.240: I can you can read between the lines, and I'm not going to fill in between the lines.

00:00.240: Yeah, I had a look and I knocked out that 60 or 70 page document in a few hours.

00:00.240: I've got a scientific training, so I've I made that document painstakingly, scrupulously I wouldn't say correct because there's a lot of supposition and a lot of non

00:00.240: But yes, so it's had the effect that we wanted it to.

00:00.240: a scientific document like you'd write up an an experiment at school, you know, like you'd write a um what what are we trying to prove?

00:00.240: Um that's that's what it was aimed at.

00:00.240: If you're using Final Cut 10 in any environment where you have multiple editors on multiple machines, even if you're as simple as

00:00.240: just my office setup where we have, you know, gigabit Ethernet between machines with a gigabit switch, which is arguably kind of a caveman approach.

00:00.240: I spend a lot of time just correcting people with information that's patently out there in the public domain and it's like, well, have you not read anything?

00:00.240: as many high-end um facilities that I've visited and you know companies not necessarily just T V companies, but

00:00.240: Believe that I just would like to see it working.

00:00.240: you know, moving onwards and people coming up with ideas.

00:00.240: I mean, I've just come out of a last week a fairly pro-suma training class.

00:00.240: If any of the people that were in that training class are listening, I apologize for calling you pro sumers, but they can probably work out that this was last week and they'll be going, hey, I'm a professional, what are you talking about?

00:00.240: And I think that what happened when we went from 10.

00:00.240: You know, if you're one person, you need it all on your laptop, you want to take it away.

00:00.240: And then at the other end of the scale, we're all sharing media.

00:00.240: you run into a portion of your workflow where you go, ugh, this is kind of a bummer, it's probably a good idea to do a little research, if not

00:00.240: Yes, I can't say that sort of thing in training.

00:00.240: their corporate install.

00:00.240: contact somebody.

00:00.240: You're going to have them say to you, Yeah, but you said, I go, Yeah, I did, but don't you remember what I said the next week?

00:00.240: For almost a year, he commuted back and forth between northern and southern California.

00:00.240: When shipping labels came in or Bill of Laden would come in, it would get clipped next to the purchase order.

00:00.240: And in many cases, especially with something like After Effects, it needs to stay in that place.

00:00.240: files in a c certain spot, the last thing you want to do is keep having a bunch of miss missing media where you have to relink things.

00:00.240: You know, that's when politeness goes out the window.

00:00.240: And that just wasn't working.

00:00.240: It was like, no, you can't do that.

00:00.240: for the majority of the time, what people are doing is they're editing.

00:00.240: I just wish everyone would agree.

00:00.240: everyone's online saying, yeah, everything's tapeless now here in the UK, whereas the reality is it's not.

00:00.240: It's great, it's fine.

00:00.240: you know, even if it was even if I did have access to an early version of the software, that early version of the software could have actually been accessed by anybody that had bought this plug-in.

00:00.240: blow away a lot of the avid guys.

00:00.240: And I'm not really sure why, but I think most companies, I guess, put choose one NLE or the other.

00:00.240: just to introduce this MXF, it's another string to the bow, it's another element in the puzzle that we've now got.

00:00.240: feature filmmaking, let's be honest, that's what I wanted to do.

00:00.240: jumped into Final Cut Pro all those years ago was because it gave me It empowered me it moved me back towards independent filmmaking

00:00.240: That was supposedly the idea, like, hey, wow, I've got this DCP, I can go and put that in any cinema in the whole country and it will play.

00:00.240: you know, they spend a lot of money on lunch taking people out for lunch to keep their business alive because they don't in a lot of cases, they don't do very much.

00:00.240: You know, telling stories.

00:00.240: All those things get small.

00:00.240: it will only give you a stereo or a surround audio.

00:00.240: If you're very, very clever, because you can add, for example, all of the music multiple times because you can have as many tracks as you want in a quick time.

00:00.240: you know, you can actually have six masters, you know, six different programme masters.

00:00.240: and just export them all as separate tracks.

00:00.240: And the argument is, well, you don't know what the what the venue is going to be like, and sometimes we want to remix it.

00:00.240: It's like, really?

00:00.240: You could open it up in QuickTime 7, and you go into the audio pro you have to select the audio track when you hit Command J.

00:00.240: Yeah, and you'll get the properties, the file properties.

00:00.240: Dip it down a couple of dB because there's actually a little slider there for the volume and re-save out that file.

00:00.240: copy them twice.

00:00.240: and all of these different versions, some some have got clocks on, some have got different idents on and yeah, you'd I in an in an ideal world you could have all of that um

00:00.240: Which means it's quite a nice, safe time for me to be speaking to you.

00:00.240: And I did want to mention that because we were talking earlier about some of these, you know, we were talking about the difference between engineering and IT in today's day and age and how so often

00:00.240: Is that what you're doing?

00:00.240: Kind of like the way that um avid bins work on a Unity.

00:00.240: and being a part of that because it was it was very interesting and very informative for me.

00:00.240: I mean, I'm working on a huge documentary at the moment, and the footage is starting to take up a lot of space.

00:00.240: I think audio, I would like to see the ability to mix in real time however that would be achieved, so that you can actually mix and record.

00:00.240: That's the way I kept all the notes on the piece.

00:00.240: But the ability to move markers between different libraries that are essentially clones of each other, minus those markers, of course, would I think that would be a huge benefit.

00:00.240: Yeah.

00:00.240: Essentially, they're coming from the same the event is coming from this the one that I've sent to you and mine are coming from the same mothership, you know, that the the same

00:00.240: Which one is most recent?

00:00.240: And if I merge those two, the clips are duplicated.

00:00.240: I got one and and oh, and ridiculous sequences.

00:00.240: nickname of Slack Alice called Larry Grayson and because my name's Alex I had a friend used to call me Alice and and I don't know it came from there somehow and I just thought that's the uh one of the most ridiculous names I can think of for a film company

00:00.240: Yeah, no, happy Sunday to you, and yeah, nice to speak to you.

00:00.240: So anyway, I hope you enjoyed that conversation.

00:00.240: Serious, you still playing that with that thing?

00:00.320: Now the document is the Final Cut 10 workflows document.

00:00.320: There's no simple, yes, work this way workflow in Final Cut.

00:00.320: Since we made this appointment, I realize there's so much more to talk about than just what I initially wanted to talk to you.

00:00.320: And everybody was talking about this thing.

00:00.320: Speculating, and really, I had no insider information whatsoever, but I was speculating that 10.

00:00.320: We all kind of knew, we cut we were sort of sensing, there was an excitement that something big was going to happen.

00:00.320: relationship discussions, interactions that you had with Apple, or is that something you can't?

00:00.320: Dumped on the planet, a this, it's like we found the Qumran scrolls, you know

00:00.320: When this came out, was there did you get a lot of hype, a lot of buzz, a lot of people contacting you, going, Hey, can you come help us set this up at our place?

00:00.320: Yeah, yeah.

00:00.320: Shared XN, they can verify that, and you know, they're as anal as I am, and they're absolutely brilliant.

00:00.320: That's what the relationship there was.

00:00.320: complimenting me on it.

00:00.320: Yeah, and I think it's very important.

00:00.320: Yeah, and I think sometimes they'll come back, that they will assume that they can do it themselves and they might come back and it might take them a year to come back and say, do you know what, we kind of need someone that really knows what they're doing.

00:00.320: the enterprise level who are who make up most of the clients of ten.

00:00.320: behind the scenes work for seven figure sums.

00:00.320: hearsay on the internet about stuff not working, um, da da da da da da da, because I'm I'm absolutely dogged and or have been since 2002, since I started using Final Cut Pro with misinformation.

00:00.320: given out by so-called experts.

00:00.320: Most of my eggs as far as editing goes are in the Final Cut Pro basket.

00:00.320: you know, the new modern new media, the new the new world companies around Europe, I want them to to take it.

00:00.320: So that was one of the aims, really, to just get everyone onto a level so that we're all talk we're all in the same ballpark, and then we can start talking about

00:00.320: Pluses and minuses, you know, right?

00:00.320: And it was kind of trying to get people to think that that way and not expect that like you say, just because it is a three hundred dollar piece of software, that it's going to be providing all the answers.

00:00.320: Apple definitely answered our cry for flexibility.

00:00.320: And I think that in its default install, you're going to be importing into your library.

00:00.320: talk to a consultant because I believe, and I think you do too, that all of those problems have been addressed in one way or another.

00:00.320: exist with Final Cut don't exist anymore.

00:00.320: you know, continuing to be useful.

00:00.320: one person turns into twenty and they're all, you know, losing their losing their hair because it's it's five minutes to air and everybody's just throwing everything everywhere.

00:00.320: Rather than someone going, no, no, no, you should put that in the library there.

00:00.320: And he designed his JOM folder so that the receipts would go on one side and the purchase orders would go on the other.

00:00.320: And I didn't realize it, but literally 30 some odd years later, I did the same thing for my business.

00:00.320: Why did you buy that?

00:00.320: that had to wait until all of the other things that were exporting from Farmers Com Server Yeah.

00:00.320: So we just went back to actually dragging and dropping something directly into a folder.

00:00.320: a universal format for delivery across the world, but all the different countries are failing to agree on the minutie.

00:00.320: their one world, you know, New World Order control, and those people got to uh create file formats for broadcast television, it would be AS eleven.

00:00.320: So one of the things that I have said many times about File Cut 10 is that I like to say it solves problems for editors that they don't know they even have yet.

00:00.320: But I am seeing that it primarily deals with audio channels, roles, sub roles and delivery formats.

00:00.320: have obviously got their eggs in those baskets.

00:00.320: That revolves around that, you know, it's for everyone.

00:00.320: Because that happened to me.

00:00.320: guys like us, smaller production houses, can deliver directly to a broadcaster without having to go via the middleman.

00:00.320: which are the facilities houses.

00:00.320: Obviously, you need a little bit of technical know-how, but not much.

00:00.320: They just bought an expensive kit that does.

00:00.320: and we look at our bins or keyword collections or our browser filled with media and we start we s you know, march forward to to a a place of completion.

00:00.320: The last thing that we are thinking about is the final deliverable.

00:00.320: I want to say that just because there is all of this amazing capability in the software, it doesn't mean

00:00.320: that every editor is going to know how to how to organize his roles.

00:00.320: And that was actually kind of nice in 7 or Premiere or I guess I guess Havid does the same thing.

00:00.320: that a lot of broadcasters will want stuff broken out so that they have, with their master file that they get, they have the ability to repurpose

00:00.320: The multi-track QuickTime movie.

00:00.320: For example, let me try and explain this in audio only.

00:00.320: But then you can have another track with the music and the Spanish, and then you can have another another track with the music and the French.

00:00.320: it was a simple corporate thing, but they were delivering corporate films, but in six languages.

00:00.320: similar lengths so that you don't get dips in audio that you know suddenly goes quiet because the English is shorter than the Spanish or something you can have that all in one timeline

00:00.320: All your music has a stereo roll and all your dialogue as a stereo roll.

00:00.320: Yeah.

00:00.320: You could, in theory, open that file up in QuickTime 7.

00:00.320: To do that.

00:00.320: to be able to do that directly.

00:00.320: uncommitted in one simple time line.

00:00.320: like I said, that's a little advanced, and I don't know that I want to ask some guy backstage in a ballroom in Vegas

00:00.320: DVDs and you know 2997 versions from that but that X that will move up to 25p for the UK.

00:00.320: So Alexander, what do you let's talk about where you think things are headed?

00:00.320: But then I would say then I would say, but even if I did, you know, I wouldn't be able to tell you.

00:00.320: with Austin and that and that's when he like started, you know, coming at me on Twitter, you know, like a madman.

00:00.320: A lot of the Avid installations are politically based and not workflow based.

00:00.320: dumping in feature sets, so the the software becomes so much more top heavy, not just because it's going to slow it down because it isn't because it's sixty four bit now, but it certainly did in the old days with seven, but

00:00.320: No, I didn't do a second one, yeah.

00:00.320: often it would be used.

00:00.320: The second one I would I have to say I'd like to see trimming in the sense of trimming media

00:00.320: is like yeah, like the media manager.

00:00.320: and then a handle length.

00:00.320: That was the way when we would do playback and partial viewings

00:00.320: I guess XML is not too far removed from that, is it?

00:00.320: Yeah.

00:00.320: When I open up my Timeline Index, and I had this discussion with Scott Simmons the other day, I said, why do we call it a Timeline Index when we don't have timelines anymore?

00:00.320: I would it's one of the very first things that I tested it duplicates the clips?

00:00.320: and mark them as favorites or whatever, keywords, and just send me back that event.

00:00.320: If I import the one that you send me as an XML, it will duplicate the instance of the

00:00.320: at some point a little bit of artificial intelligence is going to have to be applied, like which is more important or which you know, what if they're

00:00.320: Right.

00:00.320: Once it's there, once you know, you can't move Twitter users across.

00:00.320: Library across town, and to be able to email that would be great.

00:00.320: to get to um the links about this episode.

00:00.320: I I I mean I'd added you know the F C P X Grill Twitter Twitter account and you're right, it makes sense.

00:00.320: Tons of things, and I'm not supposed to talk about it too much, but they showed me a very preliminary schedule, and I think it's going to be awesome.

00:00.400: No, it's almost one o'clock now, so that's eight hours.

00:00.400: There's a religious studies reference if you want to look that up.

00:00.400: world as much as you know the the handful of people that had sort of live live in that ecosystem.

00:00.400: my hour piece of marketing to put that document out and you know stake our claim, put our names on the map.

00:00.400: They they were very nice to me, let's put it that way.

00:00.400: And say, look, you know, you've got quite a lot of information in that document.

00:00.400: Out of the whether it be self-promotion or just the goodness of somebody's heart, when people offer up free stuff, there's always the possibility of getting just hammered.

00:00.400: You know, I'd start the class by saying, you know, this piece of software is designed to work for a single user, and I've seen it working in schools.

00:00.400: Yeah.

00:00.400: That they take the time.

00:00.400: Yeah.

00:00.400: To get your to get your workflow down.

00:00.400: A job folder was a manila folder, and it and he had gone to the stationery store and found various types of clips and clasps and fasteners and

00:00.400: And they used to come in to the edit suite, you know, a couple of months later and they'll say, oh, new box, do you want to have a look at that?

00:00.400: And there's a constant battle between them designing the workflow and then the editors come in much, much later.

00:00.400: come not come to blows, but I d it did get heated when I worked on the World Cup because we had to change the workflow half the way through.

00:00.400: a demo of the time that it took and it was it was a matter of five, maybe six times faster.

00:00.400: the UK, but hopefully I mean, it's the the politics of this is just insane.

00:00.400: for production companies, particularly I guess smaller production companies.

00:00.400: You know, they will.

00:00.400: What it is, is just a, I guess, something that would have been great to have worked from day one, but

00:00.400: just to get a a a thirty five mil print that would screen in a cinema.

00:00.400: Directly, which is very empowering, and it's also very scaring for it, particularly for a lot of the bigger places who

00:00.400: You know, keyable things out of After Effects.

00:00.400: I mean, I get it.

00:00.400: They might want to pull all the dialogue out because they want to, you know, dub it for Spanish or something.

00:00.400: Although the that's really got nothing to do.

00:00.400: Yeah.

00:00.400: are a nightmare because I have I've got a twenty four P version, which is cinema, but also I can make US compatible

00:00.400: I don't.

00:00.400: spill the beans, as it were.

00:00.400: It's up to the designers to do the little things and they'll always improve.

00:00.400: I do think I would like to have a read-only version of a shareable library open with multiple users.

00:00.400: you know, in Hollywood, up the back lot somewhere, and see a whole installation of Final Cut Pro with avid editors just using

00:00.400: Final Cup Pro 10 and there not being a big deal about it.

00:00.400: amazing privilege of being able to rewrite the software from the ground up.

00:00.400: like this for some time.

00:00.400: Markers, uh, to-do markers that have been completed and to-do markers that still have yet to be addressed.

00:00.400: Well, I gu I guess I mean, essentially you're talking about an XML file, really, but it would duplicate the sequence.

00:00.400: Hit it.

00:00.400: Anyway, we should wrap this up.

00:00.400: And yeah, I've got to break down, I've got to split my identities really, because I've got a Final Cut Pro sort of identity and I've got a filmmaking identity, and they're all under one

00:00.400: It's funny when if I if I post too much about Final Cut on the Chris Fenwick account, yeah, you feel you see people like running and like really, Fenwick?

00:00.400: Slash FCG110.

00:00.400: to um the the um the convention center there.

00:00.480: And we're going to hear all about it now with Alexander Snelling from London.

00:00.480: Six or seven years.

00:00.480: In essence, what happened here through I'm going to just say, I'm going to say a few things because I didn't sign anything, is that through essentially a back channel, Apple

00:00.480: Turn.

00:00.480: with questions and free requests for free consulting, if you will, like you're mentioning.

00:00.480: To actually, you know, get me up and running.

00:00.480: quick answer because it's every almost every answer in that document is a is an amalgamation of

00:00.480: And I know that like last year, 2014, NAB, I got into some pretty heated discussions with people.

00:00.480: You don't know what the hell you're talking about, and you need to close your mouth because you're wrong.

00:00.480: in a lot of ways, because there are mostly facts, but there's also presumptions and assumptions.

00:00.480: When I was a young boy, my father bought a business, and the business was in San Francisco.

00:00.480: Have a workflow and have a file structure that you maintained.

00:00.480: And that was really very, very tense because that was exactly that scenario that I just said.

00:00.480: being managed centrally and it had this queuing system.

00:00.480: It's amazing that Final Cut Pro 10 can import and export MXF.

00:00.480: in any cinema in the world, which is amazing.

00:00.480: millions over the years just with delivery spec, dubbing tapes, checking broadcast safe, doing all of that.

00:00.480: Mix and eff uh uh with M and E is m uh music and effects.

00:00.480: And so a lot of times we are asked to deliver things.

00:00.480: Deliverable for what I'm doing because of what they're playing it off of.

00:00.480: uh uh feature in the in the export window.

00:00.480: you know, with a choice of how many handles you have when on export and batch export from a project, you know, so from a project and from an event.

00:00.480: Right?

00:00.480: You know, along your lines of the read-only libraries, the thing I would love to see, and I may have mentioned this before in the past, I would love the ability to have my producer have a copy of the library at home.

00:00.480: Me be at the office with the work.

00:00.480: and somehow ship me a text-only document that I can import to the same timeline and have those markers magically appear in my office.

00:00.480: Right, yeah.

00:00.480: So you can merge events or going back, say for example, you did just what I'd gone off on holiday and I said, hey, Chris, could you pull out your best takes, what you think's the best takes on this drama?

00:00.480: event.

00:00.480: And in each event was a keyword collection called sequences.

00:00.480: And so when I merged the two events together, I got one keyword collection called sequences because it was spelled exactly the same.

00:00.560: You could find it at the 10.

00:00.560: in order to slip and slide and I used some of the loops and it was anyway, it was a lot of fun.

00:00.560: I'm just going to go into a little bit of history here.

00:00.560: When did you initially release that?

00:00.560: Right?

00:00.560: frustration and then I approached Apple and said, you know, is there some way that we can create a document like this?

00:00.560: It was kind of understood, I'm going to have to pay a guy who's really smart to plug all this stuff in.

00:00.560: software that hadn't been released.

00:00.560: scenarios and you need to take that to your own facility, your own house, your own shed, whatever, and you need to adapt it to your own purposes.

00:00.560: But I would like to touch on just at the it it give you an opportunity just at the highest level to describe

00:00.560: to enterprise level for example, the Tour de France, which I worked on last summer.

00:00.560: And you can find that second edition or link to it there.

00:00.560: Well no, I crave those days, you know?

00:00.560: So I'm quite proud of that.

00:00.560: stuff wasn't getting delivered.

00:00.560: So then we get to December 2014.

00:00.560: And we get we get the the upgrade that a lot of people, a lot of very vocal people, are like, Mah, that was shit, you know, that really, that's all we get?

00:00.560: As an editor, you don't even know you have this problem yet.

00:00.560: At this level of complexity, you're going to go, oh, yeah, I don't know how to do that.

00:00.560: to or yeah, graphics, I think, or effects to those things.

00:00.560: You don't need a whole nother, like you said, another shop or another facility.

00:00.560: even different software, you just have to know how to really use the software that's right in front of you.

00:00.560: And that's part of what the AS11 workflow with the audio track designations or assignments attempts to do.

00:00.560: I would like that.

00:00.560: Just for ease of use.

00:00.560: twenty five frames a second, and quite often there were little hiccups.

00:00.560: Not make offline.

00:00.560: The moment I buy more drives, I just seem to be filling them up.

00:00.560: And I think that that's a really difficult thing to do.

00:00.560: Um it's it's uh it has a various different um origins.

00:00.640: I'm getting it dropping out when I'm talking.

00:00.640: Everybody was speculating, like, how does this guy come out with this amazing document?

00:00.640: That I mean, really, I mean, I remember reading through it, and I say reading through it with giant air quotes.

00:00.640: You know, let's try and keep the document short, which I think you failed at.

00:00.640: When you had to pay one hundred or fifty thousand or whatever it was to build out an avid suite in US dollars,

00:00.640: We thought we could have a go.

00:00.640: they've always said to me that if all of their clients phoned up at the same time and had a problem, if all the servers went down,

00:00.640: the method and then the results and then the conclusion, that type of thing.

00:00.640: is about the storage of libraries.

00:00.640: 10.

00:00.640: When you need additional flexibility, and you will learn, like, oh, this is kind of a bummer.

00:00.640: And then all of the contracts would go in a certain spot.

00:00.640: Yeah, I mean you just I just remembered one of the one of the motivations for writing that document.

00:00.640: And when I was an editor, the engineering guys in because it was mostly guys, in conjunction with the head of technical or whatever, they used to go off to NAB or IBC and buy all the kit.

00:00.640: they were exporting no you know, you've got an several eight, eight, seven or eight edit suites all exporting at the end of the day or, you know, at the end of the job anyway.

00:00.640: dictates of the IT department, which of course the IT department are going to say, well, yeah, of course, but day in, day out

00:00.640: I wouldn't go that far.

00:00.640: And it doesn't matter if it's not all the same, then it's going to be different.

00:00.640: And can you break down a little bit about what AS11 is trying to do?

00:00.640: But all the video is the same, but the audio is different.

00:00.640: I have to say I do, I would like, I think the three, my top three, there's all sorts of little things.

00:00.640: And I think that's the big issue is that everyone thinks that they are the biggest market in the world.

00:00.640: less expensive and larger and more full.

00:00.640: But the to-do markers are really nice because you can check them off and say, yep, this has been done, and then it gets sorted in a different way.

00:00.640: Because she knew how to do it.

00:00.640: Actually, that speaking of merging, I would like to be able to merge events without duplicating clips.

00:00.640: What did I call it?

00:00.720: It was released in conjunction with Slack Alice Films, your company, and 10.

00:00.720: But this document comes out.

00:00.720: Speaking about the obvious previous to 10.

00:00.720: scientific assumptions in it based around human human nature.

00:00.720: people it's a little bit more difficult to understand why I would want to pay a consultant more than the cost of the software.

00:00.720: 1 gig, 10 gig, dual fiber, all of that, and your workflow, how fast it needs to get out the door, how many editors there are, all of that.

00:00.720: Oh no, but but we like the uh the page turn.

00:00.720: all of that.

00:00.720: at various places, the BBC, etc.

00:00.720: You know, various languages broken out, stereo mix, the effects channels, the m final, you know.

00:00.720: Files to be delivered, which is frustrating because you take all this beautiful music from PremiumB.

00:00.720: you basically have to like you said, you end up with two timelines.

00:00.720: And if somebody on site decided, eh, the music needs to come down 2 dB

00:00.720: you have like you said, there is the ability.

00:00.720: You know, what's the Henry Ford line?

00:00.720: Is that Moore's Law?

00:00.720: Yeah.

00:00.720: Another user interface slip, I think.

00:00.800: Okay, so that's shared environment.

00:00.800: some new file formats.

00:00.800: That's the current workflow in order to get audio out of final audio roles into a multiple track format.

00:00.800: which are all fine, you know, there's nothing wrong with that.

00:00.800: To some of the editors that work with us about how, and actually, this is kind of a nice little trick.

00:00.800: And you know you're going to have to deliver them.

00:00.800: Which means that if you need to make a change to it, you only have to make it once.

00:00.800: Now help me out here because this is something that I have toyed with in my own workflow.

00:00.800: And in that one keyword collection sequences, there were now two projects.

00:00.800: who I go as.

00:00.800: And it makes a few people laugh.

00:00.800: And I think every time I tweet about XML or anything like Final Cut Pro related, I think I lose five Twitter followers who were who were kind of interested in what I had to say about

00:00.880: Application, which is deceivingly simple.

00:00.880: Your library is going to get really large, but it's going to be this single solitary file that you can carry about and move about, although big, that has all of your media and whatnot in it.

00:00.880: That files needed one, you needed to have a place to put them, and two, they needed to go in a place

00:00.880: And this AS11 is a bit of a red herring in that it's it's specific it's a bit of a hot potato.

00:00.880: digital day, D-Day, where everything was supposed to be going digital and everything was supposed to be AS11.

00:00.880: You know, it that may not be such a huge groundbreaking change as everybody thinks it might be, but um I would for for purity reasons I think and also to to shut the naysayers up I'd like to see that.

00:00.960: Traditional old school, I'll say broadcast world and this kind of new ecosystem that Final Cut 10 creates because when

00:00.960: The same application may be in the same room with a person who is an expert at delivery or in the same facility who does know how to organize this stuff.

00:00.960: So but what I've tried to explain to people, and and I've toyed with it and I haven't pushed toward this, but using the roles like you're talking about here and using the multi-track QuickTime movie

00:00.960: He went, that's a good question.

00:01.040: This will be one of those great Fenwick doesn't edit it out of the show moments.

00:01.040: Yeah.

00:01.040: 1 are the eggheads behind me who that you know, if I can just if I'm not sure about a server issue or a code issue or a speed issue, particularly with

00:01.040: they would have a major panic because there's not enough staff to deal with it.

00:01.040: And there's no way in the world that we could cover and discuss all of what is in here in a week's worth you know, a week's you know, half a dozen different shows.

00:01.040: I I I recommended contacting Sam at FCP Works here in the States.

00:01.040: Describing how this works and how it works with Funnelcut 10.

00:01.040: But it's not too hard, but it would be nice to ha to be able to do that without the extra steps.

00:01.040: Final Cut 7 was so top heavy, you know, there were so many features on top of features, on top of features, that that there I think I'm guessing what the methodology is, is to just be really careful about

00:01.040: Do you want to merge these in?

00:01.120: When he reposted it, it got a different creation date, whatever.

00:01.120: I mean, that was really one of the one of the purposes of it.

00:01.120: You have also updated the document since the 10.

00:01.120: Final Cut Server, which was there was a couple of reasons it was taking so long.

00:01.120: Actually what it was, it was one thing that was really simple.

00:01.120: But it's an interesting potential technology that's available to us.

00:01.120: At the moment, it's yeah, it's as much of a mystery as what's going to happen in the future as it is to you.

00:01.120: So there's always going to be some people who are going to be disappointed with what the priorities are.

00:01.120: Just so that you can do a rough mix.

00:01.120: Yeah.

00:01.200: There was a bit of buzz.

00:01.200: But if you're in any sort of a shared environment, this is absolutely a must-have go-to resource.

00:01.200: Especially because if you think about, you know, you were talking about human nature, it's really detrimental when you teach somebody something wrong.

00:01.200: I just wanted to give the editors a leg up, say, look, this is a document written by an editor with a very technical background, but I'm putting the editing process first because that really is

00:01.200: It's a file format.

00:01.200: And it's a little bit tricky, you know.

00:01.200: It's 2015 and we're still doing everything in mono.

00:01.200: Anyway, I cut you off.

00:01.280: I don't have any staff to help me remind me, hey, what about Alexander Snelling?

00:01.280: Some of the logic behind what you tried to knock off with this thing and explain what your goal was.

00:01.280: And you come up with this new document about the AS11 I guess you'd call it a protocol.

00:01.280: So AS11 is supposedly a simplification of the delivery requirements to make it a lot easier.

00:01.280: How do I say this in a diplomatic way?

00:01.280: Or anything.

00:01.280: the decisions being made are being made at the corporate level and not being discussed with the actual editors.

00:01.280: So, if you haven't heard that episode, I think it's a great episode, and I really thank Austin for coming and

00:01.280: I think that would be fantastic.

00:01.280: I would love to just have a little import button there and say import, go to the text document that somebody emailed me, because it would be minuscule.

00:01.280: home and you make a change to it and and I've made some changes to it.

00:01.360: And likewise, I love your podcast.

00:01.360: Because I'm notoriously, I think most people know I'm not a really good reader.

00:01.360: 1 website, or again, you can find it at Digital Cinema Cafe slash FCG110.

00:01.360: But this is the same thing, but even at the enterprise level.

00:01.360: Didn't you think about asking us if we'd like to use that every day?

00:01.360: It was taking forever.

00:01.360: I showed a short film of mine and they put the negative in the wrong way, and it came out upside down.

00:01.360: you know, that's really, really, very easy.

00:01.360: It is official.

00:01.440: One is three years old and the other is two years old.

00:01.440: The curated nature of the content is amazing.

00:01.440: So is there anything that I should should I be should I wait?

00:01.440: So I don't know if that's normal, is it?

00:01.440: I rather like mine.

00:01.440: I mean, I try and stay out of that.

00:01.440: One of the frustrations of the trackless world is that I cannot select specific tracks and make them taller or sh smaller, whether or not I need to touch them or just know that they're there.

00:01.440: And just say, look, do this.

00:01.440: So I'll get two events.

00:01.520: com uh i i get all my i've been getting so much music i all i maybe not all it's my go-to place i go i go to premium beat first uh

00:01.520: And he had told me this story that he had spent an enormous amount of time designing the workflow for their business.

00:01.520: There's always been this line between the, well, it's called the IT department now.

00:01.520: plug-in suite called AS11 suite from a company in Germany a long, long time ago.

00:01.520: And they went, oh, look at that, you know?

00:01.520: I Twitter is a good Slack Alice Films, essentially.

00:01.520: The email or the shareable markers.

00:01.600: So, yeah, it just so happened that the version number of the planets came together.

00:01.600: Okay.

00:01.600: But a lot of it was untested because we only had a couple of scenarios that we could actually knock up.

00:01.600: And what I thought when when I was writing that document, I'll just clarify that I've I had a copy of a

00:01.600: No, it's not.

00:01.600: Or even copying clips which had been logged into another library, for example.

00:01.600: So yeah, so that's what a lot of people would say is truly collaborative working.

00:01.600: Yeah.

00:01.600: I go, put the markers in.

00:01.680: I would never have anybody in my edit suite if I said that to any of them because nobody seems to be prepared.

00:01.680: So there's nothing really new in that.

00:01.760: You can't go into the finder.

00:01.760: Well, this is most recent, but the old one has more phone numbers for some reason.

00:01.760: Amalgamated.

00:01.840: That content.

00:01.840: So a read-only version would allow us allow like a producer to be reading into the library and making notes, but not changing the edit.

00:01.840: It would be nice to have that, but it's one of those things that can be addressed and certainly fixed with XML.

00:01.840: I don't know.

00:01.840: And I I just think from a workflow standpoint, I would love to see it when I open up my

00:01.840: I hope you enjoyed that.

00:01.920: To get the I hope no one minds me using the phrase Chinese whispers kind of

00:01.920: I think it's I almost speak sort of altruistically, but um that's kind of how I maybe possibly rather naively

00:01.920: I'm quite proud that we thought about it long enough, which is I guess the business that you're in if you're a consultant a workflow consultant is like you're trying to guess what's going to happen down the line when

00:01.920: And he was just on they were just on the verge of switching from Final Cut seven to ten.

00:01.920: organized in a way that works for, like you said, your delivery times, your production values, your hardware, your infrastructure.

00:01.920: That's going to change.

00:01.920: We're worried about character development.

00:01.920: Okay, let me let me look at the list here so I can speak.

00:01.920: That's just an example, you know, music and effects and English narration and Spanish narration.

00:01.920: So all one word, all lowercase.

00:02.000: And so, yeah.

00:02.000: But, you know, all the scenarios, they were just kind of, well, you know, we sat down and brainstormed it and said

00:02.000: So we I think I make it clear in the document, probably overly clear, with a lot of disclaimers saying these are just theoretical

00:02.000: I mean, we could I think you call them shops.

00:02.000: It's like, and this, so let me say, I should probably back up and say, you know, when you get into delivering for broadcast, and a lot of our listeners know this, and a lot of the guests have alluded to this.

00:02.000: Specifically, I think maybe half that document is about delivering multiple channel audio because as you know, when you just export directly out of Final Cut 10

00:02.000: I just wanted to make a little caveat with the read-only library is that I'm still I would like that, but I'm not sure how

00:02.000: But uh yeah, if you if you do a s internet, just a generic internet search for for Slack Ellis, it's quite interesting what comes up.

00:02.080: So then let me ask you this.

00:02.080: I mentioned it a couple episodes ago, but it is official.

00:02.160: The queuing, the queuing system, plus the fact it didn't seem to be working as fast as it could, and there was no time to pull it apart.

00:02.160: It's a subset of the MXF delivery format, particularly for at the moment

00:02.160: Yeah.

00:02.160: No, Moore's Law was that computers will get twice as fast every 18 months.

00:02.240: And I think that this this herein lies the difference between the sort of

00:02.240: But um I thi I thought I wanted to start it from the beginning, you know, and I and I think I tried to write it like a

00:02.240: So it's supposed to do two very, very different things, which those things are almost diametrically opposite in terms of their functionality, in terms of

00:02.240: And when stuff doesn't get delivered on time, that's when the shit really hits the fan, you know, and people start losing money.

00:02.240: And you know, at the end of the day, we're all just making films.

00:02.240: You were talking about the features you'd like to see.

00:02.240: Yes, I do.

00:02.240: Alexander, thank you so much for taking the time to be here and share with everybody.

00:02.320: Now, this and what I'm referring to is the original Final Cut 10 in a shared environment.

00:02.320: It's not like something further down the line.

00:02.320: So I've got a 24P and a 25P version with different audio tracks all over the place.

00:02.320: You know, like you know, the other guys hate hate the filmmaking stuff.

00:02.400: I'm glad you're listening to this.

00:02.400: Now, I'm not going to ask you to break any and I don't know.

00:02.400: If we put that feature set in now, it's going to become part of the code and remain in there.

00:02.480: Maybe I don't know, was it months or was it a year?

00:02.480: But you can't afford to get it wrong at enterprise level.

00:02.480: So it's always a, well, it kind of depends on what scenario you're dealing with.

00:02.480: It is quite long, but I think it's worth it.

00:02.480: They're going to be like, oh, oh, damn.

00:02.480: It's a purity thing, you know.

00:02.480: There's tons of stuff to go check out.

00:02.560: Yeah, no.

00:02.560: That is the ability.

00:02.640: Right, right.

00:02.640: But we're not there yet.

00:02.640: I'm going to go, you know, take a break.

00:02.640: I'll get an I'll get one called FCP Grill one.

00:02.720: Now we've talked about this before on the show, and I finally hooked up with Alexander and it was great to chat with him.

00:02.720: Oh, what, 10.

00:02.720: They're not exporting and moving files around.

00:02.720: I think which one is it?

00:02.720: Anyway, that menu.

00:02.720: Yes, I am.

00:02.800: 1.

00:02.800: They just plain don't.

00:02.800: , about AS11, I think in 2013.

00:02.800: Sometimes I find it difficult, but because at the end of the day, it is just a piece of editing software.

00:02.800: But yeah, I still use QuickTime 7.

00:02.880: And there's obviously it's obviously not perfect, but there's also a lot of that misinformation, which I find I spend a lot of my time because I do a lot of training.

00:02.880: So if you did unplug your laptop and went on holiday, you wouldn't have any media at all.

00:02.880: So the the real trick then becomes the multi-track QuickTime movie.

00:02.880: And as a matter of fact, I actually let one of the producers sit down at my desk, and she goes, I sit here.

00:02.880: So I've got to split them down the middle, but that's quite more difficult than

00:02.960: So it's a difficulty, but I think that at the highest levels, when

00:02.960: 0 to 10.

00:02.960: It's also broken down so that you can get your answers in smaller sections.

00:03.040: My name is Chris Fennelweck.

00:03.040: So, when Final Cut X came out, as I recall, and you can remind me, in a relatively short amount of time.

00:03.040: Okay.

00:03.040: But I wanted to get back to grassroots and I still believe that the the powers that be at Apple have still got a belief system

00:03.040: Yeah, especially with the advent of the to-do marker.

00:03.120: I don't know if that's Skype doing that, but if you talk over me,

00:03.120: That's just that's enabling AS11 within Final Cut Pro 10.

00:03.120: I know we got a little distracted there at the end when he was talking about his things that he would like to see.

00:03.200: You know, I asked them what they were going to do about training, and they said they had a little bit of budget for training.

00:03.200: And it was a job folder.

00:03.200: Yeah, you could have got two channels of this one, and that would have been a lot, lot easier than you could have, you know, anyway

00:03.200: I mean, don't take my word as gospel, but you know, it's not going to go backwards.

00:03.280: Yeah.

00:03.280: You have to be a lot more diplomatic.

00:03.280: I just think that that would be a nice bit of finessing.

00:03.280: So that's Final Cut Grill episode 110.

00:03.360: Why do I have to do this?

00:03.360: You can't use the finder.

00:03.360: It won't give you those extra files.

00:03.360: Who knows?

00:03.360: Allow him to make a bunch of to-do markers on the timeline.

00:03.360: We're talking about merging Twitter accounts now, aren't we?

00:03.440: co.

00:03.440: And I'm not saying that this is the be all and the end all, but I just wanted to get everyone to sort of first base so that because obviously, I mean, I've put a lot of

00:03.440: You've got to get the a little bit of software, but you've got to really, really be on top of Final Cut Pro 10.

00:03.440: I think it works with stuff out of After Effects.

00:03.440: Like they don't, they might, they might need to change the music for something.

00:03.440: Where I could export my markers and then import them in another machine.

00:03.520: And what was significant about this is that we all knew, and if you go back even to the first episodes of this show, I was.

00:03.520: So if you had the program that was on air in five minutes time and you exported it now

00:03.520: And Alexander fires up his IBM Selectric again.

00:03.520: I'm not sure what Mr Bush would like for his file format.

00:03.520: So, Germany wants to go with a slightly different file format.

00:03.520: So any downside, any opportunity to criticize the other

00:03.600: So I think you're going to enjoy this conversation.

00:03.600: You should everything is everything is normal on my way.

00:03.600: If you go on holiday, you want it all there, and you don't want to get on holiday and realize half your media is still back in London.

00:03.600: It got me one step closer to that than running around Soho doing commercials and shit TV programmes.

00:03.600: Yeah.

00:03.600: What would you like to see next?

00:03.600: But when I open up the Timeline Index and I say, I want to look at tags they're called in there, not markers, interestingly enough.

00:03.600: If you do a search for Slack Alice, I believe there might be a strip joint in Las Vegas or New Orleans called Slack Alice's.

00:03.680: It is remember the Hitler meme that everybody was making little uh little videos about?

00:03.680: I've had some people who seem to think that because that document was out there for free

00:03.680: And one good way of hopefully explaining that is the DCP thing.

00:03.680: Yeah, and and you know, I'm gonna say that

00:03.680: I mean, the thing that I didn't actually realize until quite a long time ago, I mean, quite a long time after it was its release, is the fact that you can add

00:03.680: You've got your music, like one deliverable will be English with music, full mix.

00:03.760: Do I want to say confusing?

00:03.760: But all of that, I must say, all of that is it's all my work.

00:03.760: Yeah, I know.

00:03.760: I mean, you know, I think the the one big takeaway from that document, the if there is one

00:03.760: What are you doing?

00:03.760: And that fills that standard.

00:03.760: You could we call them facilities houses here.

00:03.840: 1, the lack of sort of collaborative workflow.

00:03.840: I mean, I'm not big on social media in the Final Cut Pro

00:03.840: Can you elaborate on the World Cup thing that had to change midway?

00:03.840: It's quite a hot potato over here because deadlines have been missed.

00:03.920: Okay, so the two-year-old one is Alexander's, but it's actually, it was older than the other one.

00:03.920: uk website.

00:03.920: So they deal in success and no downtime and they've never had that issue.

00:03.920: I'm giving giving away my age now because there's days when people liked page turns.

00:03.920: Here I am trying to be a diplomat.

00:03.920: And so that's kind of a little tease to like, look, you might want to start thinking about using your roles.

00:03.920: If I had given people what they wanted, they would have got a faster horse.

00:03.920: And in each of those keyword collections, in each of those events, there was one project.

00:03.920: Um so um that's it.

00:03.920: Have you been hacked?

00:04.000: It's not bad.

00:04.000: And that's kind of a huge one, and that's the one that we sat down and really spent a lot of time discussing.

00:04.000: 1 and certainly to 10.

00:04.000: You know you're about to do that all at once.

00:04.000: It's very easy for archiving.

00:04.000: And as long as the English and the Polish and the Spanish are relatively

00:04.000: So even if I do make a little slip up, I can't actually.

00:04.000: Right.

00:04.000: Well, let's think about this.

00:04.000: You know what?

00:04.000: And they would be maybe even another instance of the markers.

00:04.000: So um they're going to be posting and and I'll have details coming up shortly.

00:04.080: I hope you know that by now.

00:04.080: I think it's highly entertaining as well as informative.

00:04.080: But when you get backed into a corner and have to deliver something,

00:04.080: Now, a lot of editors and maybe a lot of listeners to the show don't realize: oh, really?

00:04.080: But that's where Von Locut Pro is headed, I think.

00:04.080: Who knows?

00:04.080: Take care.

00:04.160: 1.

00:04.160: If you want to talk real deal, let's talk the real deal.

00:04.160: And you could, in theory, select the music track and

00:04.240: Is that something to do with you recording?

00:04.240: Is there anything else that you want to say about it?

00:04.240: Every single day, it would be so much easier to do that.

00:04.240: Okay, whatever.

00:04.240: Yeah.

00:04.320: Now this is sixty six pages of PDF goodness that goes through basically every workflow that you could possibly imagine and explains the best ways and the logic behind

00:04.320: I just didn't have the the wherewithal or the patience to create the document to substantiate my claim.

00:04.320: Hey, look, it's all working.

00:04.400: But I wanted it to be perfect, and that's how it was born really.

00:04.400: I missed lunch on that day.

00:04.400: I've read it again and I've actually, you know, sat back and thought, you know, that that is quite a

00:04.400: So um I'm proud of it and I and it is a a long read, but at least worth worth one read.

00:04.400: There's the discrete mix and then the archival stereo mix that they're going to keep on file when they want to show in a conference room a year later or whatever.

00:04.400: No, I have I have heard that, yeah, it's good, yeah.

00:04.400: Is it Parkinson's rule?

00:04.480: Yeah, I think it's important that people realize that I love what you said, that there's no simple answer.

00:04.480: I mean this was back in the days of Final Cut Pro 7, but it was

00:04.480: Do you have any and again, I haven't got a clue.

00:04.480: I don't know.

00:04.480: I mean, look at the problems of merging two telephone books together, two contact lists together.

00:04.480: And I realize there might be a way to do it with XML, but it just seems like you're generating a bunch of extra stuff.

00:04.560: Back about three years ago, Alexander released a video on YouTube.

00:04.560: Apple chose very boldly to say, yeah, we're throwing it all out, we're starting over.

00:04.560: It's not essential again, but it would save a lot of time because I just seem to be filling up all my drives.

00:04.560: Timeline tags.

00:04.640: Yeah.

00:04.640: It's like everyone knows it's not really the case.

00:04.640: Not much, really.

00:04.640: In one five.

00:04.640: They want all the music on one track and all the dialogue on a second track.

00:04.640: Um yeah.

00:04.640: Let's just spend a little bit of time deciding on how this moves forward because it is going to be

00:04.720: So, first of all, primarily AS11, it seems that, and I again, I did not read through all of this.

00:04.720: And now you can actually make your own DCP, as I know you know.

00:04.720: Yeah.

00:04.720: I don't think more had anything to say about hard drives.

00:04.800: That's 10dot1.

00:04.880: And in this document, was this amazing treasure trove of workflow ideas?

00:04.880: I think most people that know me know that.

00:04.880: I started as an editor.

00:04.880: Your library structure, your event logic, your projects, all of these things need to be

00:04.880: Alright, cheers, bye.

00:04.960: It's deep.

00:04.960: I don't know.

00:04.960: Because no matter how many times you say, forget what I said.

00:04.960: And is this too early?

00:04.960: You said the read-only library.

00:05.040: So the one that December 2013.

00:05.040: Okay, you can read between the lines.

00:05.040: And they just get it right.

00:05.040: And I'm just going to tell a story.

00:05.040: It's the IT department up against the editors.

00:05.040: And we're right on the cusp, or not the cusp, but right on the release of 10.

00:05.040: Anyway, various things.

00:05.040: So you could do that from one timeline.

00:05.040: But the big things for me are

00:05.040: I'll come in and address all the markers.

00:05.040: That should be fairly easy to find.

00:05.040: Yeah.

00:05.120: And one of these days I've got to do a tutorial on this thing I just recently did because there's some really cool edits in it that I did.

00:05.120: And yeah, it's onwards and upwards, I hope.

00:05.120: I've learned to be very diplomatic in training.

00:05.120: They just want the files to be there when they want them, like you said.

00:05.120: I mean, just solely.

00:05.120: When you go into the Timeline Inspector and hit this little box here

00:05.120: Yeah, you make it once, and then, you know, and the producer's like, when have you done that?

00:05.120: Yeah.

00:05.120: Please follow the links at digitalcinemacafe.

00:05.120: Guys, I would really love to see shareable markers.

00:05.200: No, of course I'm joking, yeah.

00:05.200: You just reminded me which links into what you just said is

00:05.200: It used to be called engineering.

00:05.200: And AS11 is the equivalent of that for broadcast.

00:05.200: And this might be something that somebody like Philip Hodgetts can or maybe already has addressed.

00:05.280: Where is it?

00:05.280: But when you give somebody an edit system that's extremely powerful for $300

00:05.280: And I I guess that I was speaking to fairly scientifically minded people who may or may not have scientific training, but that was the idea.

00:05.280: Again, a very physical thing.

00:05.280: You could in theory export

00:05.280: Not as complicated.

00:05.280: I am definitely going to be working with the FCP Works crowd, and we're going to be at the Renaissance Hotel, which is immediately adjacent.

00:05.360: Okay.

00:05.360: So AS11 is well, first of all, let's say you've got MXF.

00:05.360: You know, if you could I'll ask you the question, if you could sneak in the back door and talk to the programmers, what would you have them program for you?

00:05.440: And you'll do that.

00:05.440: Yeah, I had to deliver a feature film, my own feature film, so I'm still the deliverables for that.

00:05.520: Is there a delay or anything?

00:05.520: And obviously facility houses who've bought their ten or twenty Avid Suites

00:05.520: So we discussed that.

00:05.520: Are you with me?

00:05.600: So that's that's Premium V.

00:05.600: But the document, as many of us refer to it as, was released.

00:05.600: Yeah.

00:05.600: 1.

00:05.600: Yeah, no, it would be nice to be able to have a.

00:05.600: Timeline tags instead of project market.

00:05.600: Or demerging Twitter accounts, which are just as hard as it is in Final Cut Pro 10.

00:05.600: So FCG 110 is the shortcut

00:05.680: Today we're talking with Alexander Snelling.

00:05.680: 1, which is the other company in the UK.

00:05.680: And it did.

00:05.680: But I guess that was my

00:05.680: one, they really are backups.

00:05.680: But you know, the the places that have been earning

00:05.680: So an editor can basically give an AS11 file to a broadcaster.

00:05.680: And then I'd say that even if I did tell you, I'd have to kill you.

00:05.680: We got the option to, you know, they had the

00:05.680: Interesting.

00:05.680: They're like, oh, you know, I don't want to know what this guy thinks about

00:05.760: It's deep because, and we discuss this.

00:05.760: 1.

00:05.760: Yeah.

00:05.760: You could, in theory, send that anywhere in the world.

00:05.840: And in doing so, they gave us, I think, ultimate flexibility.

00:05.840: And in doing so, it has alleviated many, many headaches over the years.

00:05.840: But going back to

00:05.840: We're cutting pictures.

00:05.840: So, which one is actually more important?

00:05.840: Which is like the ideal.

00:05.840: Uh oh, a couple of things.

00:05.840: Yeah, no.

00:05.920: I mean, there are simple ways to work, but it may not be the best way for you.

00:05.920: I also want to say, if you have not yet, and I can't imagine you haven't at this stage.

00:05.920: 2

00:05.920: And it's a six-hour drive or a one-hour plane flight.

00:05.920: Because After Effects being a referential application where it's spidering out and looking for

00:05.920: You know, like for classic example is a D V E, digital video effects.

00:05.920: Well, here's again another, how many is this a 17-page document?

00:05.920: But what I was showing people is, you know, they were stacking a bunch of graphic elements like

00:05.920: You know, I've suggested this to somebody recently that

00:05.920: It was kind of a messy project that I had let get out of control.

00:06.000: Yeah.

00:06.000: And I said, you know, if you assign the role of graphics

00:06.000: I don't believe you could do it in QuickTime 10 yet.

00:06.000: And but I've already done a little bit of other work in that event, although

00:06.080: So it has slipped me, but I'm very excited to talk to you.

00:06.080: I'm not sure if that was the original motivation to deliver without getting bogged down in tech specs.

00:06.080: So that would be three stereo mixes?

00:06.080: I was just doing a big motion graphics piece where it

00:06.080: And when I merged them together,

00:06.160: Oh, come on, really?

00:06.160: You and I haven't discussed this at all in email or anything.

00:06.160: 2 release.

00:06.160: I mean, I did a job in Berlin where it was it's fairly

00:06.240: I don't know.

00:06.240: 10-1 was a huge change.

00:06.240: I'm just I did it in I did it in about seven hours.

00:06.240: And wrong decisions can haunt you for years.

00:06.240: There was a comedian from the north of England who used to go by the uh

00:06.320: I am actually in California, so I'm at 8 o'clock.

00:06.320: And as is the case, just the fact that this podcast is really kind of a hobby for me.

00:06.320: I think it's also very important to point out that

00:06.320: You know, many editors

00:06.320: But that also requires that you.

00:06.320: And if you don't know, there's three types of markers: there's chapter markers and to-do markers, and then we'll call them marker markers.

00:06.320: Website Slack Alice Films.

00:06.400: But that was his inaugural, like, this is what I feel about Final Cut.

00:06.400: Anyway, thanks for um thanks for uh agreeing to do this and hunting me down.

00:06.400: And so it was comforting to know, okay, this is all solved.

00:06.400: I used to tell people to get out of the edit suite if they didn't come prepared and stuff.

00:06.400: I mean, I had a bit of a rant with someone online who were going, you know, what the hell is MXF?

00:06.400: com and that's stereo and in the typical in the typical

00:06.480: So yeah, I think there was a lot of discussion about that.

00:06.480: Yeah, well, it was going to be longer, but yeah, I mean, it was impossible.

00:06.480: Okay, so Alexander, I I'm gonna say that um

00:06.480: And like I say, it goes back to my earlier comment about Final Cut Pro 10 being the same package for everybody.

00:06.480: Right, yeah.

00:06.480: All right, we'll be back next week with another episode of The Grill.

00:06.560: One was that that was all going down Ethernet.

00:06.560: Do we need to move this down?

00:06.560: They used to call up the media manager and it would

00:06.640: Uh, can you talk about any

00:06.640: I've probably told it on this show, but I'll say it one more time.

00:06.640: And I actually had to do it.

00:06.720: So, anyway, welcome.

00:06.720: No, it's nothing that I'm doing.

00:06.720: Okay, um, so I did have some access.

00:06.720: And when

00:06.720: So it it it paid it really paid off to

00:06.720: In fact, I did.

00:06.720: I guess some of them choose, you know, their agnostic.

00:06.720: So all the it's exactly that scenario.

00:06.720: And this just there was just so many formats back then.

00:06.800: They cannot afford to get it wrong.

00:06.800: So I had a lot longer lead time and I was doing seminars about that.

00:06.880: It's a little bit of a wander fest, but

00:06.880: I want them to like it because it'll give me more work and it'll um

00:06.880: No, just thanks for your compliments about it.

00:06.880: And this is the kind of thing where

00:06.880: And he still has a they still have a room filled with thousands of these job folders over the years.

00:06.960: No, no, you're good.

00:06.960: Yeah, I know.

00:06.960: It's a nice little metaphor for world politics.

00:06.960: What list is this?

00:06.960: Or if they had some sort of audio playback device that could actually access all of the audio tracks.

00:06.960: And I've got a cut down

00:06.960: I mean, I say I say that because I would like to think um uh one day, you know, I'd like to be at Pinewood Studios or

00:06.960: Moore's law?

00:06.960: Yeah, I think what we're finding is

00:07.040: No, you can.

00:07.040: I mean, actual professional editors lose.

00:07.040: And it was like.

00:07.040: That's going to improve.

00:07.040: And I think that's the that's the thing, again, solving problems that we didn't even know existed.

00:07.040: Just basically, you know, a little tick box on export for trim media.

00:07.120: co.

00:07.120: Let me just double check here.

00:07.120: We'll just be careful not to talk over each other.

00:07.120: And if you're using Final Cut 10, I'm just going to say this to all the listeners.

00:07.120: And I think that anytime you

00:07.120: So you've got your full mix and everything, but you can actually deliver it all in one file.

00:07.120: Nothing's been deleted, you know, essentially just markers and metadata is being added and annotated and

00:07.200: I haven't hedged my bets at all.

00:07.200: There's this battle.

00:07.200: If you stack a bunch of stuff up on your timeline,

00:07.200: I just want to say we discussed the avid bins and the avid workflow extensively on episode seventy four with Austin Flack.

00:07.200: But she was in the same room.

00:07.200: I promise you, it's going to be great.

00:07.200: Anyway, uh, thanks again, Alexander.

00:07.280: So if you have not seen that, you should go back to the

00:07.280: So you could double-check, I bought this, they shipped this, we paid for this, we're done.

00:07.280: And that was you know, it wasn't elegant, it didn't look nice.

00:07.280: They're trying for it to be, but no one's willing to admit that there's still tapes bouncing around.

00:07.280: And again, this is one of these things where

00:07.280: So this wasn't news to me, even if it was new software and stuff.

00:07.280: You know,

00:07.280: And so and as long as you tell whoever you're sending it to what what the track layout is and what what to expect

00:07.280: And you had to test it.

00:07.280: Like that.

00:07.360: It's very difficult.

00:07.360: You know, a few episodes ago on episode one hundred four with Ben Broadback, we were talking about

00:07.360: Hi, Austin.

00:07.360: And hard drives will get.

00:07.360: And then you had said that there were three.

00:07.440: Did I do that wrong?

00:07.440: Anybody who knows me will know that diplomacy is not in my vocabulary.

00:07.440: And I know the colors will be right.

00:07.440: You don't need.

00:07.440: And that was one of my arguments.

00:07.440: And he wanted to say, no, absolutely not.

00:07.440: Yeah, yeah.

00:07.520: So

00:07.520: I said, you know, contact

00:07.520: For example, at BBC, that's what happens.

00:07.520: I mean, most editors that I know never touch the roles.

00:07.520: And you could just have a role for Polish, English, French, German, Spanish, etc.

00:07.520: You know, we want discrete

00:07.520: Like I could turn on Chris's markers versus Peter's markers.

00:07.600: uk, and that will be in the show notes.

00:07.600: This, the document, if you will, the Funnel Cut Pro 10 workflows document, it's deep and it's amazingly well crafted.

00:07.600: Is that the one you're talking about?

00:07.600: And it's kind of worked, I think.

00:07.600: And I mean, it was the mainly the doc the documents aimed at everybody, but focusing on

00:07.600: Yeah.

00:07.680: You know, obviously we were working with

00:07.680: No, can you remember?

00:07.680: This is back in the mid 90s when I realized

00:07.680: And so there was no contest.

00:07.680: And I also think that

00:07.680: And what was the second one you mentioned, or did you?

00:07.680: So

00:07.760: So yeah, I think you're a great host.

00:07.760: Just talk.

00:07.760: 1, which we were on the cusp of, because I think when we started the show, it was 10.

00:07.760: And that takes quite a long time for people to understand that they are dealing with this huge scalable

00:07.760: Quite often in the corporate world, we are asked to because people don't trust us to mix things.

00:07.760: I'm very aware that that's not a huge market.

00:07.760: What is the history?

00:07.840: Yeah.

00:07.840: So you're talking about what we used to have with media management in Phonocraft 7.

00:07.920: I think they've all turned out to be quite true.

00:07.920: We still lived in Southern California, the family.

00:07.920: Sorry to keep using all of these expressions.

00:07.920: Right.

00:07.920: Is that a thing?

00:08.000: I looked through it, and I was like, okay, that problem is solved.

00:08.000: .

00:08.080: It depends how many users you've got, it depends how much media you've got, whether you've got 4K, 8K, whatever.

00:08.080: You're going to be rendering into your library.

00:08.080: But that's a little bit.

00:08.080: Whatever.

00:08.080: Uh it's on your document, your AS11.

00:08.080: Yeah.

00:08.080: You know?

00:08.160: And Alexander has a company called Slack Alice Films.

00:08.160: There's a huge battle going on in London.

00:08.160: You know, no one died.

00:08.160: One way that I like I mean my first reason that I

00:08.160: And I think that, that is that's one of the things that we've talked about is that

00:08.160: I saw that happen.

00:08.160: Twitter Slack Alice Films.

00:08.160: I'd love a way to be able to export my markers and import them into another

00:08.240: Yeah, I think that's a difficulty in any sort of a scenario where

00:08.240: So the music needs to be on a separate track.

00:08.240: I've done it.

00:08.240: But, you know, actually the simple answer is no.

00:08.320: So that's

00:08.320: And

00:08.320: There's a big meeting with a lot of execs there, and I actually had to do a.

00:08.320: Exactly.

00:08.400: All of the problems that you have just said

00:08.400: So, basically, if the Bush family dynasty could have had

00:08.400: All of that.

00:08.400: So I'd like to see your logging and my logging

00:08.400: If people want to follow you on Twitter, Internet, web, anything, how do we find you?

00:08.480: Yes, we can.

00:08.480: And I recommended that

00:08.480: It's not really necessary anymore.

00:08.480: You certainly had to used to have to test it over here in Powell land.

00:08.480: If you if you can merge events, right?

00:08.560: and then

00:08.560: And if and if the English dialogue is mixed in with the music, they can't do that.

00:08.560: So you can have the music and the English.

00:08.560: Yeah.

00:08.560: And that's not necessarily the best thing.

00:08.560: What is Slack Alice?

00:08.560: com.

00:08.560: But I gotta say, the read-only license and the

00:08.640: Okay, so if you Google if you Google um F C P X and Hitler,

00:08.640: They hold it against you.

00:08.640: It's not bad.

00:08.640: But you can deliver a digital cinema package that will play

00:08.640: So that's the that's the element of getting it in there.

00:08.640: I really don't have a clue.

00:08.720: This will be episode 110 of the show.

00:08.720: Whereas the ID department will think in a different way.

00:08.720: So if that could be done remotely, it would be fantastic.

00:08.720: I'll get FCP Grill and then I'll get FCP Grill one.

00:08.800: You're perfect.

00:08.800: I've finished.

00:08.800: Okay.

00:08.880: You know, do you understand?

00:08.880: But but he but and that's why I invited him on the show because my contention was that I believe

00:08.880: There's going to be tons of

00:08.960: What is what is describe AS11 for me.

00:08.960: And so

00:08.960: I was like, oh, that's exactly what I would have done if I was doing it manually.

00:09.040: No one has a clue what they do, but what they do is just incredible.

00:09.040: But um but in the same way now, there's you've got your IT department.

00:09.040: Is that correct?

00:09.040: Yeah, for sure.

00:09.040: But um yeah, no, that's the my my own company, um, produced various films through that.

00:09.120: Great.

00:09.120: Right.

00:09.120: And I just at one point just said, you know what?

00:09.120: Now, this is early 70s, so they didn't have any computers.

00:09.120: Again, aging us.

00:09.120: I know the sound will be right.

00:09.120: Well, it is.

00:09.120: Thank you.

00:09.120: Okay?

00:09.200: And in doing research,

00:09.200: I guess so, yeah.

00:09.200: I understand, and I'm not going to ask you

00:09.200: So I want Final Cut Pro to be taken as seriously as possible.

00:09.200: Right.

00:09.280: So we discuss this a little bit, and we also go into a whole bunch of other stuff.

00:09.280: My audio settings.

00:09.280: So what we're talking about is a document that's about 13 months old then.

00:09.280: And there's no

00:09.280: So, you know, if you obviously short filmmakers, they want to get a film in a cinema, it's amazing.

00:09.280: That's supposedly.

00:09.360: So I've got all of these different versions and they take up so much space on my archive because obviously I have to

00:09.440: Okay.

00:09.440: I think people know who we are.

00:09.440: So if you export an AS11, the whole idea is that

00:09.440: And then you're doing a Spanish version, you're doing a French version, and you know you're going to have to do these.

00:09.440: I think that's the problem there.

00:09.520: Yeah.

00:09.520: Well, okay, I guess we're doing it later.

00:09.520: By the time the editors arrive for a job

00:09.520: And a lot of times, if we

00:09.520: But media management, yeah.

00:09.520: What's your third?

00:09.600: No, we all know the internet sucks and we do the best we can with it.

00:09.600: It's not a bad file format.

00:09.680: Oh, so it's very early morning.

00:09.680: Yes, which is totally coincidental.

00:09.680: And I'm going to give you the option to just say, yeah, I'm not talking about that.

00:09.680: It came out of an idea

00:09.680: Later, later.

00:09.760: Yeah.

00:09.760: And

00:09.760: We can get a little bit into the details of it.

00:09.760: The subtitles and the text was in different languages.

00:09.840: Yeah, so I mean, it's very important to

00:09.840: I'm sure it's going on over there.

00:09.840: And I think the little things are, I'm a bit tired with the little things.

00:09.920: And the guys that designed the workflow, it was like killing their baby, you know.

00:09.920: It's a hot potato in the UK because October twenty fourteen we had this

00:09.920: Yeah.

00:09.920: I appreciate it.

00:10.000: And I think that was the irony is that

00:10.000: And it was like there was about four or five different choices.

00:10.000: No, no, that's just the that's the current

00:10.000: We're never going to get rid of Avid because of

00:10.080: I got ten.

00:10.080: I hope it will be

00:10.080: Right.

00:10.160: I'm sending you.

00:10.160: I see all this.

00:10.160: And so he spent

00:10.160: Yes?

00:10.240: Oh, well, thanks.

00:10.240: So it was actually around.

00:10.240: Anyway, just let me import my markers.

00:10.320: So anyway, Alexander,

00:10.320: So that's a little bit dubious.

00:10.400: But also Final Cut Server, you know, it was

00:10.400: But stuff like that where, you know, it's

00:10.400: I'd be like, what do you mean?

00:10.400: Or if you

00:10.400: Oh, it's not so hard.

00:10.480: And I painstakingly

00:10.480: We have projects.

00:10.480: And I had two events

00:10.560: Explain what that is for people.

00:10.640: But most editors are not going to be organizing this.

00:10.640: So you can take just the clips you want.

00:10.720: I wanted it to be comprehensive, and I have had a lot of people.

00:10.720: The the only thing worse is unplugging hard drives and walking them down the hallway.

00:10.720: I know the picture will be the right way up.

00:10.800: To break any sort of NDAs, but

00:10.800: And we'll have to do this again sometime.

00:10.880: A lot of people, a lot of us, felt the same way.

00:10.880: Right.

00:10.960: The whole idea is that AS eleven was supposed to be

00:10.960: Yeah.

00:10.960: I know that's the problem.

00:11.040: So there is no definitive answer.

00:11.040: Um so they would send their sequences to

00:11.040: This is just stupid.

00:11.040: But there's you know, that there is a hateful war.

00:11.120: That problem, okay, good, good.

00:11.120: Sure, we've all done that.

00:11.200: It came out first.

00:11.200: And he spent a lot of time

00:11.200: You know, who knows?

00:11.280: Well, no, it's almost 11 o'clock now.

00:11.280: Actually, let me just double check.

00:11.280: The car ended up being pretty good.

00:11.360: Okay.

00:11.520: Yeah, it's version control, isn't it?

00:11.600: Um you are on a list of people.

00:11.600: So

00:11.840: 0.

00:11.840: You bring me those files or mail them to me, whatever.

00:11.840: 1.

00:11.840: I actually showed one trick

00:11.920: I mean, they they've been going for about

00:11.920: And I'm like, you know, that that is going to

00:11.920: Yeah.

00:12.000: That'd be awesome.

00:12.080: Well, that's, I've done it, you know.

00:12.160: The check is in the mail.

00:12.240: I want it to be adopted in

00:12.400: 9.

00:12.480: And it was like.

00:12.640: 4.

00:12.640: I didn't realize somebody wanted

00:12.720: I don't know what they're called.

00:12.880: And so.

00:12.880: Right.

00:13.200: Now if you

00:13.680: Now, I made a few short films.

00:13.680: However,

00:14.000: Exactly.