Episode 5
FCG005 - Long Format Documentary (feat. David Fabelo)
Final Cut Pro X on a long form documentary. David Fabelo sits down to discuss the work flow he has developed for a long form documentary he is cutting making great use of Tagging and Marking and the Timeline Index as a searchable virtual script to greatly simplify the finding of various content points and beats as he crafts his story. David also touches on the use of Audition Clips and how he uses them. Fenwick discusses Uses Motion vrs. After Effects
Download
Featuring
- Chris Fenwick
- David Fabelo - @David_Fabelo
Transcription
00:00.001: Alright, so welcome to Final Cut Grill episode 005.
00:00.001: I'll have this up in a couple weeks, I think.
00:00.001: I'm not saying anything negative about Steve and Mark.
00:00.001: You can start moving around scenes, you know, wi because you've put them into compound clips.
00:00.001: I don't even think about that anymore.
00:00.080: that oh right so it was untested you know it was totally totally untested and and I tested it in a big way that first weekend
00:00.080: Multicam in Premiere is very good.
00:00.160: Think you're going to enjoy the interview, the chat with David, but here we go.
00:00.160: I'm breaking all kinds of rules in terms of workflow, even my own rules, but there's a lot of backstory.
00:00.160: I've been a treating loyal to the platform.
00:00.160: Right.
00:00.160: clips in Premiere.
00:00.160: that someone posted where someone is theorizing that Final Cut Pro 10 and iMovie are going to be much more.
00:00.160: Give me all these features.
00:00.160: I'm about to edit a feature in 10.
00:00.160: Transcriptions?
00:00.160: You know, quite often in the end, you've spent so much time sifting through things or trying to find things that you know maybe it would have been better.
00:00.160: It's like, you know, but there were like 30-minute interviews.
00:00.160: trying to wrap their head around.
00:00.160: I guess it's not such a big deal as I thought it was.
00:00.160: to that kind of thinking.
00:00.160: We're so used to the audio just always working below our video that it takes some time to think about.
00:00.160: But when you think about it, the number of times that you really do want to strip the audio off of something and treat it completely separately
00:00.160: Fortune one hundred companies with a very demanding branding standards.
00:00.160: And so what you do is you like I'll give you a for instance, and I've mentioned this on the other show before, um I had a a thing where I I just cut something the other day that was all in Portuguese and I speak zero Portuguese.
00:00.160: Premiere Pro.
00:00.160: And I went to town on it.
00:00.160: Right.
00:00.160: you know, maybe after 10.
00:00.160: But we had some other interviews I just wanted to get in to kind of kick it off and, you know, get people's attention.
00:00.160: So there you have it, David Vibello.
00:00.240: I tweeted him and within probably 15 to 30 minutes, I had this interview set up.
00:00.240: So the audio isn't really great.
00:00.240: It must have been the most recent, the October.
00:00.240: I I think anyone listening totally kept up.
00:00.240: to the grill.
00:00.240: And I haven't dabbled that much in Premiere, but I've strictly all the features the majority of the features and shorts that I've edited are on Final Tech Pro.
00:00.240: Oh, he's just a loyal Apple fanboy.
00:00.240: stayed on it.
00:00.240: What what I learned by moving away from Final Capro briefly, it's like, you know, they're all tools.
00:00.240: So obviously they have some relationship with Apple.
00:00.240: But I, you know, in my conversations with Mark at least, they genuinely like the tool, also.
00:00.240: What was the breakthrough?
00:00.240: the tagging and the marking.
00:00.240: for my markers, search for my notes, you know, like on a dock style project, that is just that was it was so fast.
00:00.240: is if you can teach it, you really know it.
00:00.240: Think that would be.
00:00.240: And it's not so much that the apps are closely related, it's the feature sets that he is finding in the iMovie 2013 code.
00:00.240: Which it's like, yep, I want that.
00:00.240: One was like, I'm glad somebody's doing this.
00:00.240: documentary and edit storylab where I participated as an assistant editor.
00:00.240: Right.
00:00.240: on the it l it was not three months' worth of work.
00:00.240: With the controversy and all that to really care.
00:00.240: you know, where I had um where I had faced obstacles, but but where it really saved me time.
00:00.240: Let's do some tests and let's let's give it a go.
00:00.240: What's been the biggest hurdle?
00:00.240: You know, and I've kind of worked, I've worked both ways where I've put, there have been some scenes that I experimented with
00:00.240: putting just interview as my primary, as my A role.
00:00.240: It's been those kind of things, or like, okay, when I want to make an L-Kite, do I, you know, but I, am I sure I want to detach the audio from this clip?
00:00.240: I may not want to detach it.
00:00.240: You know, we like things to be the same.
00:00.240: I think that that is a really good example of something where initially people lose their lunch over it.
00:00.240: they need to go and you don't really have to to worry about whether it has to go somewhere if that if that
00:00.240: And then I would adjust something upstream.
00:00.240: I thought this whole program was about not knocking things out of sync when you make an adjustment.
00:00.240: And when you do that, it changes the connection point to the frame that you actually clicked on.
00:00.240: And mess with it a little bit.
00:00.240: it's going to behave differently when you make it connect at this other point.
00:00.240: You know, it's just because I've worked mostly in features where, you know, I just finished a bunch of stuff where I literally cut the entire piece in After Effects.
00:00.240: you know, 'cause it was all graphic, you know, wiggle, jiggle, wiggle, slide, blah, blah, blah, you know.
00:00.240: After Effects since like version two.
00:00.240: believe me, hard.
00:00.240: And everything's hunky-dory.
00:00.240: Now once you do that, any layer that you have in that document, if you want to make an external asset of it, you just append the layer name with
00:00.240: It is what I'll say.
00:00.240: edit is is starts in your A role.
00:00.240: And then, when you need to cut something in, you're cutting it from the B roll.
00:00.240: you know, storyline relationships.
00:00.240: How do you see integrating 10 into the rest of your work otherwise moving forward?
00:00.240: you know, but I I know that I need to have you know this other program um kind of in my tool belt because
00:00.240: If I have a client or if I have a director that isn't that will give me that freedom and trust me with their project to work in ten, then I'm going to pitch them on it.
00:00.240: And now while you're sitting there telling me how my tool doesn't work, I'm going to be sitting over here actually getting some work done.
00:00.240: I think I'm one of the few in my area, in Austin, Texas, to be working in 10.
00:00.240: When you wiggle it, they go forward.
00:00.240: To change car, you know, from a horse to a car and have exactly the same user interface.
00:00.240: But anyway, I think it's totally cool what you're doing.
00:00.240: And I'll put it on the screen.
00:00.240: Project done.
00:00.240: But there's a final there's a couple of Final Cut Pro 10 communities on Google Plus, and so it's been really nice.
00:00.240: I will send you when I start up when I get back into this because I've got a deadline coming up and then a little bit of reprieve, but I'll send you when I start r posting new articles.
00:00.240: But no one out there can say that you can't do this anymore.
00:00.240: And at the end of the presentation, some guy said, you know, he's like, ah, so what?
00:00.240: But a lot of people are just kind of hiding in the shadows and quietly doing work while everybody else is fuming and steaming and complaining.
00:00.240: there's going to be I'm going to go out on a limb here.
00:00.240: And yet, I'm getting a lot of work done in 10.
00:00.240: It's amazing how really when you think about it, yeah, yeah, yeah, we can we could have a whole other episode talking about how Apple blundered
00:00.240: And they say, Yep, and the only people that support it, the only people that like it, the only people that care are the ones that are making money out of it.
00:00.240: But the point is, is that if these people weren't making these if these people are making these plug-ins, the ones we're not talking to yet.
00:00.240: For a large workgroup environment.
00:00.240: definitely uh perplexing me.
00:00.320: Great.
00:00.320: November, I put out sort of a random tweet and I said, Hey, does anybody out there know some people, interesting people talk that are using Final Cut 10?
00:00.320: As we get going and as we get talking, we ended up starting to kind of hone in on some of the features and some of the things that were like the breakthrough moments.
00:00.320: And you know, he's not the podcaster kind of guy, so he doesn't have like the chitten microphone.
00:00.320: project.
00:00.320: Yeah, yeah, something like that.
00:00.320: ever since.
00:00.320: It it isn't.
00:00.320: I did turn my back on it when 10 was initially released.
00:00.320: Were people that, frankly, they had a vested interest in it being successful.
00:00.320: you hinted about shorts and features.
00:00.320: Yes, this is the first one I I I the first project the the test run on 10 was the short project that I shot myself that I just
00:00.320: And I bumbled my way through it.
00:00.320: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:00.320: the fact that I could move pieces around in the timeline the same way we move note cards on the court board.
00:00.320: I kind of have to survive because most of the post most of the small production companies are using Premiere.
00:00.320: you know, tell anyone what the matrix is.
00:00.320: other end of the spectrum.
00:00.320: Baseline of understanding.
00:00.320: some little um three minute docko things uh a few weeks ago and there was no transcript.
00:00.320: like a little clipboard or something, a little notepad.
00:00.320: And there are multiple ways of viewing it.
00:00.320: Yeah, yeah.
00:00.320: He can make markers and email them to me.
00:00.320: where, by the way, everyone at the Sundance Lab was just declaring Final Cut dead, and I was whispering to and these are like these are accomplished editors, I'm whispering to all my fellow assistants.
00:00.320: Interviews.
00:00.320: talking to the subject on the spot while they're doing something else.
00:00.320: Every single thing they say.
00:00.320: the producer.
00:00.320: And um and and Jason Whaling, uh our producer, uh I gotta give him a lot of credit for being very open-minded and adventurous.
00:00.320: you know, timelines, either underneath if it was just voiceover or on top of the Verte if I was going to then want to see the person talking.
00:00.320: where the audio for A clip lives with the clip and not necessarily down below the Merkel you know, the equator line, if you will.
00:00.320: And at that point, what does it really matter if it's above the equator or below the equator?
00:00.320: If that makes any sense.
00:00.320: And that's another one of those little breakthroughs because one thing I when I was using when I was putting voiceover in the primary
00:00.320: So are you using a lot of the graphic tools inside of Final Cut for anything?
00:00.320: Right, right.
00:00.320: you know, the graphics of like the reviews of of her album, you know, that or or or doing mocking ups doing doing some treatment to still photographs.
00:00.320: We haven't gotten to that stage yet.
00:00.320: Keyframes invested in After Effects.
00:00.320: I can propagate that across all the machines in our facility, and any editor can just go tink, tink, change the name, done.
00:00.320: And so I only use motion for stuff like that.
00:00.320: Creative Cloud that when I figured it out, it blew my mind.
00:00.320: Wow, yeah.
00:00.320: and you command tab right back into final cut, the correction is already there.
00:00.320: the file is, there's another little folder that says file name, hyphen assets.
00:00.320: And I just said, Yes, sync this.
00:00.320: I love the way Multicam works in Final Can Pro 10.
00:00.320: Any change that you make in there ripples through what you've already cut.
00:00.320: Yeah, and what I'll also add to that is, and we kind of touched on this a little bit, is still thinking about, still approaching editing
00:00.320: And then you've got your this is where the A role B roll terms come from.
00:00.320: Yeah.
00:00.320: You know, to be able to just say, this is what I'm going to do it.
00:00.320: This is the tool for this job, and here is why.
00:00.320: And I started off with a couple of slides.
00:00.320: And for hundreds and hundreds of years we figured out how to put a bit in their mouth and you put the leather on it when you
00:00.320: to this user interface, these leather reins.
00:00.320: Photoshopped out the steering wheel, and she's still holding the leather reins.
00:00.320: Because I've been on some deadlines, I haven't kept it, kept it going as regularly as I would like.
00:00.320: stumble over anything that you know that no one else has yet or you haven't experienced well it's it's it sounds to me like you're well on your way to getting this
00:00.320: for the independent editor who is curious about can you do a feature in Final Cut Pro 10.
00:00.320: And I said, Well, sir, obviously I know that but see the point is, is that you thought I couldn't do it on this
00:00.320: If these people are making plugins, why would they be doing it if people aren't buying it?
00:00.320: true.
00:00.320: And they're making money with this tool.
00:00.320: Users, I'm always looking for people that are doing interesting things.
00:00.400: Yeah, so I'm not sure.
00:00.400: You know, it turned out he was, it was really, it became a great organizational tool.
00:00.400: that you know that's that's just what I learned on that's that's what I knew best and and I I just I stuck with it and luckily the projects that came my way you know
00:00.400: I said, you know, I guess yeah, I said two years after release, I finally I was seeing everyone around me switch to Premiere.
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: You know, all this now some people so and I'm playing the playing the part of the devil's advocate.
00:00.400: You can make you and I'm gonna for full disclosure, I haven't spent I still haven't spent as much time on Premiere, and I will after this project because
00:00.400: To sort and search, and you know, where's that part where he says blah, blah, blah.
00:00.400: I mentioned the to-do markers, and to-do markers are really cool because they are a different color, but they also have a little checkbox in it.
00:00.400: did the directors or the people you're working for say, here's what you're working on?
00:00.400: Do a final color correction and can we get it to Pro Tools?
00:00.400: Working in the magnetic timeline, I had already done it on a short, but with this feature, I'm you know, one moment we're
00:00.400: It's very seldom.
00:00.400: in terms of in terms of layers, rather than like this notion of of tracks.
00:00.400: When do you find yourself using motion, if ever?
00:00.400: 13 was the 20th anniversary of After Effects.
00:00.400: What I use motion for, interesting question, is we have where I work.
00:00.400: Okay, little black bar, and you know, lines and lines and lines and lines and lines and lines and lines of text.
00:00.400: You know, subtitles.
00:00.400: The the handshake between Premiere and After Effects is brilliant.
00:00.400: We should all switch to, you know, Premiere because you can it's all integrated Premiere Photoshop.
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: I think I would prefer I know I would prefer to work in ten.
00:00.400: In town, that's using Ten, another documentary filmmaker, and she loves it as well.
00:00.400: Yeah.
00:00.400: And you know, I hope it really goes well for you.
00:00.400: used to the program now that it was hard to like think about it.
00:00.400: I I was given 25 minutes at this uh at this meeting and I took a CF card from a friend of mine who had shot a bunch of footage during that event and I loaded the
00:00.400: It's true.
00:00.400: Yeah, I want to look at that now.
00:00.480: Which one do you which one would you rather swing?
00:00.480: A couple of months ago, and he's a great guy.
00:00.480: And then I and I think I had this lingering guilt for two years where I just felt like, you know what, if I'm going to trash it, I want to be informed about
00:00.480: And it was a luxury, you know?
00:00.480: those markers really come in handy in the Timeline Index because what I love about the Timeline Index is I can if I think of something or if I see a marker over in that Timeline index, I click on it and it just takes me there in the Timeline.
00:00.480: And it's my first I've assisted on Docs.
00:00.480: It's just me.
00:00.480: But he he just he told me, I I have a copy of Final Cut Pro.
00:00.480: To kind of understand that process.
00:00.480: Is instead of worrying about the things that it doesn't do, I try I focus on the things that it does really well.
00:00.480: We have some recurring clients that come in and out all the time.
00:00.480: Keynote with Final Cut and After Effects with Final Cut.
00:00.480: all the time.
00:00.480: the extension of the type of file you want to generate.
00:00.480: After that, I was like, gosh, I should have given this a second chance earlier because it's really fast.
00:00.480: Um the mult I I've tried the multicam and Premiere and it just wasn't as I it I didn't take to it as quickly.
00:00.480: in this other way that we had done for years and years.
00:00.480: Old school.
00:00.480: you know, go back to um to where we started in in editing.
00:00.480: Media into my computer while I showed a couple of slides.
00:00.480: how quickly they've updated it to this point, like how fast the updates came, and how I really and how forward thinking their the next version I think is going to be.
00:00.480: You've been grilled.
00:00.560: You know, what I'm trashing.
00:00.560: They're just they're containers, you know, I um that I can go inside and outside.
00:00.560: I believe he's from the UK.
00:00.560: Photoshop, you make the correction and you just save the document.
00:00.560: And um actually my boss said, Don't use that thing again, you know and and so I started playing with 10
00:00.560: Inside, if you need to make an adjustment, if it didn't sink something quite right, that happens.
00:00.560: And I'm going to have it on hand in my in my utility belt and and I'm going to pitch if I
00:00.560: This doc that I'm doing is not the first feature to be edited in Fauna Pro 10.
00:00.560: The release and the million times.
00:00.560: On the iTunes, it helps, and I'm always looking for somebody to help me with the crazy RSS feed, which I still am having trouble figuring out.
00:00.640: For David, and doing this long-form documentary when it's not actually scripted and they don't have the budget to do like full transcripts like a lot of people would do.
00:00.640: Well, m you know, my my history with with Final Cut Pro goes back to version like one point two when I was still in high school.
00:00.640: uh tagging an image with a marker or or I can do it with um with a keyword too.
00:00.640: Who can like sit down and they know every keyboard shortcut and they just you know fly through it.
00:00.640: It's just saving so much time, saving me so much time to navigate.
00:00.640: Do I keep only my interviews in the primary?
00:00.640: We're going from interview to verte with verte interview, it's just always fluctuating.
00:00.640: I'm not, you know, and I wish I was because I know that if you can offer that to a client, you know, you're going to be in higher demand.
00:00.640: The Photoshop to Final Cut tutorial.
00:00.640: is when you open up the when you double-click on the multicam clip in the event browser, and it opens it up down below
00:00.640: But instead, but I've replaced the horse now with a convertible and she's like sitting on the back tray, the back, the back trunk, and she's got her feet down in the car.
00:00.640: I'm on Twitter, David underscore Fabello.
00:00.640: I really am.
00:00.640: Maybe a little bit of a faster storyteller.
00:00.640: And thanks for being a part of the show.
00:00.720: This is gonna, I mean, not like that episode, but I just the concept of talking to real life editors.
00:00.720: And somebody, I'm sorry, I can't remember who it was.
00:00.720: W the way you do them in 10, I don't even thi I don't even think about compound clips as nested sequences anymore, really.
00:00.720: That she's very accustomed with.
00:00.720: you know, manufacturers or people that are building plug-ins and things like that.
00:00.800: You also have to think about it.
00:00.800: So so tell me so your breakthrough was keywording.
00:00.800: I'm waiting for the time when the director can have a copy of the media at home.
00:00.800: Does the concert go into the primary?
00:00.800: What a minor problem the other thing was.
00:00.800: I have you know, I recently just a few weeks ago discovered that I could change connection points.
00:00.800: So I can go in and color correct it inside the multicam editor, it's called.
00:00.800: Let me think here.
00:00.800: The Final Cut Pro 10 paradigm, I did get a chance back in college to edit on a Steam Beck.
00:00.800: I now feel much more confident in my abilities with the program and with the program itself to give a little pushback and try to convince someone, hey, we
00:00.800: Email me, chat me, hit me up on Twitter, and if I know the answer, I'll make a custom David hold on, I gotta ask you again, Fabolo?
00:00.800: That's my website.
00:00.880: They've all been independent features.
00:00.880: There was a breakthrough along the way, and I just really, once I started to understand it, I really, really loved it.
00:00.880: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:00.880: Are you transcribing interviews?
00:00.880: Okay, so you're but you're doing it yourself.
00:00.880: That actually was that was kind of the next hurdle that I think I faced once everything was logged and organized.
00:00.880: I actually two cameras, ten passes of the song, all lip synced, and I just loaded all the things in.
00:00.880: you you have to kind of strip all that old you know, old thinking away, that um the twentieth century NLE, you know, thinking.
00:00.880: I'm on Google Plus, which is almost like the it's almost like the Final Cut Pro 10 of the social networking.
00:00.960: But when I I I went out of my way to go and seek out a couple of short films on Avid.
00:00.960: There aren't many sit-down interviews, but there are kind of verite interviews.
00:00.960: I used Premiere Pro for about six months in 2010, and I really liked it.
00:00.960: That correction has propagated through the entire cut.
00:00.960: What did we call it?
00:00.960: So David, you mentioned earlier that you're pretty well convinced you're going to have to learn some Premiere just because it seems like so many people are going that way.
00:00.960: I mean, sure, there are some, you know, little roadblocks and little, you know, it's sort of like a mindset thing.
00:00.960: Fobello.
00:01.040: That blog site is called x for indies.
00:01.120: So I'm still pretty fresh.
00:01.120: metaphor, I now understand that relationship metaphor so much better.
00:01.120: If you're ever interested, there's some pretty cool tutorials that I've done recently on integrating Photoshop with Final Cut.
00:01.200: And I've had some experience with Avid since.
00:01.200: Steve Martin and Mark Spencer had training available online that day.
00:01.200: And I yeah and I never I never really took to the Adobe just interfaced the I don't even use Photoshop, I use Pixelmater.
00:01.200: Like the the just the simple L cut is just one of those examples where it's like, oh, if I expand and if I'm doing this in the secondary storyline on top of my primary, that's okay.
00:01.200: That's like a film film deal, right?
00:01.200: I mean, there's a lot of people that are very vocal about like how awful Final Cut 10 is.
00:01.200: There are many of us out there, some more vocals than others.
00:01.280: It isn't.
00:01.280: I think the director isn't as, you know, technically savvy, let's say, very creative.
00:01.280: Um you know, I don't even know uh you know, I don't even know if it's the first thing that comes to mind is is not a technical one, it's more of a creative one, which is like um
00:01.280: with that problem or that obstacle, it led me to think about the magnetic timeline working in layers more than in tracks.
00:01.280: not every that's not always going to be the the case.
00:01.280: It is a.
00:01.280: 1 comes up, I'll hook you I'll look you up and we'll have a chat and kind of decode that one and see what we think of it, huh?
00:01.360: Thank you, the podcast that doesn't even exist yet.
00:01.360: There's no no assistant editor.
00:01.360: And it went and it worked fabulous.
00:01.440: So so it's like and it it starts with the interviews, you know, and then and then maybe it starts with your Verite and your B-roll and eventually
00:01.440: That's and and that's really great when a director, you know, gives you a note and you can just note it there and
00:01.440: So this is really just you said just this spring was when you did your first little short, and then you went back and did this.
00:01.440: Sorry, Pixelmater.
00:01.440: And that was like the weekend that Multicam was released.
00:01.440: I just I do that.
00:01.520: they can crack open a piece of software and they'll go, Oh, yeah, yeah, I can do this and they sort of figure it out.
00:01.520: What's the thing that you're going like, ah, I wish I could just change this one thing?
00:01.520: We will get to that point.
00:01.520: We've also had some interviews that you're going to be hearing soon with some people that are working in really large environments.
00:01.600: In other words, is it like just a blind thing like, oh, Steve Jobs made it?
00:01.600: Right.
00:01.600: Just there are you know, clearly there are things that are different.
00:01.600: Um I cut the whole thing in Portuguese, but then I had to do English subtitles.
00:01.600: And he just went and he sat down.
00:01.600: And I'm really looking forward to this ten point one.
00:01.680: But so at one end, there's the people that kind of like they can relearn something every time they open it.
00:01.680: Sometimes I'm summarizing something.
00:01.680: Oh, yeah, yeah, that was the right.
00:01.680: The problem is, I type really poorly.
00:01.680: We talked about your aha moment.
00:01.680: Okay.
00:01.680: If people want to hear more about what you're doing or keep in touch with you, how can they find you on the internet?
00:01.760: Like all the time.
00:01.840: And then you go into, you, you launch it, and you go into, I think it's, I believe it's the file menu, and there's something where it says generate assets, and you tink that thing on.
00:01.840: It's just there's a word for that.
00:01.920: I mean, I I'll I'll admit because it was the the the first nonlinear system I was introduced to at uh at a formative age.
00:01.920: This is how I'm doing it.
00:01.920: And yeah, if I have a choice on every project, it it would be Fine with that Pro Ten.
00:02.000: And we all go through that.
00:02.000: And I told him, well, we can do those things.
00:02.000: So David, are you taking advantage of what's your take on the connected clip metaphor?
00:02.000: So I haven't really, you know, messed around too much with um with some of those uh some of those tools.
00:02.080: And then I I sh I found a a short little uh dock style project that I shot um and I
00:02.080: I want that.
00:02.080: I haven't bothered looking at it because I have Final Cut 10 and Final Con 10 works great.
00:02.080: I think I'm very excited about what 10.
00:02.080: Thanks, man, thank you.
00:02.160: And it just went, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, be put it synced it all up into a 20-camer
00:02.160: And when you pull it one way, it turns one way.
00:02.160: I will make I I if you get stuck, I will make a custom David Fobello tutorial like saying, David, this is how you solve that problem.
00:02.240: And the whole the whole panel where it pops out and it's sorted and you can search them.
00:02.240: I would love that.
00:02.240: And I've got a blog that I link to there where I just have updates.
00:02.240: So there you go.
00:02.320: He's really interesting.
00:02.320: They want it to be successful because that's what they do.
00:02.320: So it's it's funny it's funny to hear the the critiques, and yet there's certain principles that I see in ten that still
00:02.320: Hey, so when I started off to do this podcast, I thought this is exactly the kind of show I want to do.
00:02.400: Let me ask you, David, how long have you been using it?
00:02.400: I know you can create nested sequences.
00:02.400: You have to see it for yourself.
00:02.400: And if you haven't cracked that thing open, because some people don't even see that button, go in there and look at it.
00:02.400: Should I tell them?
00:02.480: I bet he has an iPhone and an iPad, too.
00:02.480: But I said to myself, you know, I talked a lot of trash about 10.
00:02.480: You're not sending yourself interviews out to a transcription.
00:02.480: 9 and really not having very many problems at all.
00:02.480: And that's okay.
00:02.560: Yeah, it really is.
00:02.560: I have heard through the rumor, Mill, that the latest iteration of
00:02.640: And that's the level that I like to be.
00:02.640: Oh, what window am I in?
00:02.640: I'll take some of that.
00:02.640: Right, he didn't know he had a rotten egg in his closet.
00:02.640: Quite often, it's because you found another way to do something.
00:02.640: I sigh.
00:02.720: It's like, ah, okay.
00:02.720: So I'm actually very comfortable in After Effects.
00:02.720: And I'll and I'll warn you, I just have to warn you that the that the um
00:02.800: Yeah, I think the sleuthing that he did digging through the package contents on those two apps is really amazing.
00:02.880: But I gave him a ring on the Skyper and we started chatting.
00:02.880: Yeah.
00:02.880: I've been leaning on a lot of their tutorials.
00:02.880: The fact that I can search, you know, for you know, if I'm logging an interview with markers or if I'm just like
00:02.880: I'm I what I did wait yeah, I ba basically I'm not transcribing I'm not making a marker for
00:02.960: And uh I was hanging on every word of uh discussing FCP TET.
00:02.960: It just came out and my teacher told just handed me the box and said, hey, learn this.
00:02.960: It's me, the director and the producer.
00:02.960: There you have it.
00:02.960: So we'll be back next time with more users on the funnel cut grille.
00:03.040: And I just I would rather swing you know on with Final Cut Pro.
00:03.040: And you click on that and you have this little flyout that pops out on the lower left hand corner of your timeline.
00:03.040: I 100% agree with that.
00:03.040: So you're doing this documentary, and you mentioned that you use PixelMater, correct?
00:03.040: May the producer and I have have talked about, okay, we need to at some point figure out the stylistic look in terms of how graphics come in, whether it's like
00:03.040: You're dead to me.
00:03.040: I think in the next couple of months there's going to be a little bit of a groundswell shift where people are like, hmm.
00:03.120: Okay, so you're in how long have you been at this current feature that you're working on?
00:03.120: And on the first slide, it was a woman sitting on a horse.
00:03.120: And I said, I started off by saying, for millennia, we have been taming horses and riding them.
00:03.120: I would love that.
00:03.120: Yeah, I totally agree.
00:03.200: And I'll tell you what, I'm going to do.
00:03.200: And I know I'm not doing it the same way anyone else.
00:03.200: Those people are going to pick the tool that they want.
00:03.280: And I actually have a little advantage because I've heard you speak before.
00:03.280: So you're not just cutting together wedding videos.
00:03.280: I think the breakthrough began.
00:03.280: And that's when I was like, hmm, I really dig this tool.
00:03.280: Your one your film starts on one side and goes to the other.
00:03.360: Gotcha.
00:03.360: And what I have found, because I've been using it now for about two years, what I have found
00:03.360: If you know somebody or you are one of those people, by all means, hit me up on Twitter.
00:03.520: And let me clarify this.
00:03.520: Sure.
00:03.520: It was about three days' worth of work.
00:03.520: So I make all these lower thirds and I just call the layer number one dot png, number two.
00:03.520: No, you know, I did a in the same presentation where I did the horse slideshow.
00:03.520: I can do it.
00:03.520: Remember, it's always good if you're a podcaster.
00:03.600: Now, some people would say, when they hear somebody say that,
00:03.600: Um and there were some headaches at first.
00:03.600: So there's a lot of real nice gem of sound bites in there that could very easily get lost because if you were to like let's say now I don't know are you dealing with transcribing
00:03.600: A flatbed.
00:03.680: Wow.
00:03.680: Because that's beyond, that's past what I'm capable of.
00:03.680: You know?
00:03.680: Or is it still.
00:03.680: David Fabella, thanks for your thank you for your time.
00:03.760: Yeah.
00:03.760: I'm kind of going through my notes here.
00:03.840: No, I've been on his show twice.
00:03.840: Give me two of those.
00:03.840: This is my first to be the lead editor on.
00:03.840: A lo not CS two, but you know, version two, like in the ear in the early nineties.
00:03.840: I love the fact that you've had the freedom, at least on this project, to prove the tool.
00:03.920: Which more most often it does for me.
00:03.920: Just the way everybody was, you know, saying, you know, ouch, crap, run away.
00:03.920: It's been done a million times.
00:04.000: Somebody said, Yeah, you should check out this guy, David Fabello.
00:04.000: And I had to do my research.
00:04.000: We do tons of work for them.
00:04.080: I've never spoken with Steve, but you know, I highly respect what they do.
00:04.080: But I'm preaching it.
00:04.080: 1 might offer.
00:04.160: And it's a bit of a cop-up, I know, but it's really true.
00:04.160: And you know, I will, you know, you can when you asked me, you know, what were the stumbling blocks, it's I mean, I've gotten so
00:04.160: But I'll I'll I'll kind of think about that for the future and in case this is in case I th you know
00:04.160: Right, right, right, right.
00:04.240: So it was really that was really good to have that training ground and then
00:04.240: And when I'm going to Verite, do I put that in the secondary or in a compound and I have to jump in and out when I'm making adjustments?
00:04.240: I'm going to do this project in this program because you've hired me.
00:04.240: And then I cut a pr I cut a promo and I cut some music and I cut to the music and I put a little thing at the end.
00:04.240: I can not there's nothing you did that I couldn't do on my Avid.
00:04.320: Okay.
00:04.320: Hold on, I'm gonna have to click around.
00:04.320: Right, right, right, right, right, right.
00:04.320: And one of the reasons I was really excited to work on a feature, and I knew by this point, because I had done my online research
00:04.400: I want to apologize for how bad that audio was.
00:04.400: I've been editing professionally about six, seven years now since college.
00:04.400: And then the other, the next breakthrough was
00:04.400: I got to agree that the way that you can search for keywords and have you discovered the to-do markers yet?
00:04.400: So so what has been you mentioned your breakthrough was the the keywording and the and the big yeah key keyword organization
00:04.400: Gotcha.
00:04.400: A flatbed.
00:04.400: And when you pull it the other way, it turns.
00:04.480: It's really very seldom.
00:04.480: Like it's just I love one of the things I love is that you can go
00:04.560: Hey, I haven't even I got a name, I got an icon, that's about as far as we we've gone so far.
00:04.560: I fast, but poorly.
00:04.560: This sounds very much like the primary, secondary.
00:04.560: Fabello is spelled F A B E L O
00:04.560: I can do it.
00:04.640: Because some principles are still the same.
00:04.720: And I was like, which one?
00:04.800: You know, I gotta tell you, um, when I started the idea to do this show a few weeks ago, it was the I believe it was the seventeenth or eighteenth of
00:04.800: And pro and I know and I know, which makes me nervous starting this conversation.
00:04.800: And then there's people that are like, you know, real Mavericks where no pun intended OS 10.
00:04.800: You know?
00:04.800: So, but I, but it made me feel the more I heard it, the more rebellious I felt.
00:04.800: And then there have been other scenes where I put the Berete in the A role and then the interview would be the in the secondary
00:04.800: And it's only been recently that I've been like having that kind of like, I've been coming around to
00:04.800: Sure.
00:04.800: I'm going to offer up a suggestion.
00:04.880: Listen, quote, listen, quote.
00:04.880: It's a new feature in Photoshop.
00:04.880: Yeah.
00:04.880: And then I advance the slide, and the next slide is the same woman.
00:04.880: blogspot.
00:04.960: They do final cut training.
00:04.960: No, it it was it was ultimately my choice.
00:04.960: I call it the little nipple that that grabs onto the clip down below.
00:04.960: Yeah.
00:04.960: It was like so cool.
00:05.040: That's what I would like to have.
00:05.040: You can just expand it.
00:05.040: And I think that just ultimately we don't like different.
00:05.040: Basically, everything else I do, I do in After Effects.
00:05.120: They don't like to talk about it.
00:05.120: Some people would say, Well, you know, you can make subclips in Final Cut 7, you can make subclips in Premiere.
00:05.120: And if we hit a rut, there's also a way to take it back to seven, if we really get stuck in the mud.
00:05.120: We're interested in looking forward.
00:05.200: That's the level of comfort that I like to personally like to have with an application.
00:05.200: So in a three minute piece, I had like thirty lower thirds.
00:05.200: Yeah.
00:05.200: I've been reading stories and I've been taking tips from a lot of those experiences.
00:05.200: That's kind of silly.
00:05.200: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:05.200: I mean, you got your blog.
00:05.200: Hey, David, we got to hang up here.
00:05.200: So there are people using it, but
00:05.280: I'm not sending and I know a lot of experienced editors are just like, are you shoe nuts?
00:05.280: But that was exactly what happened to me on the the little documentary short advertisement things that I did, because there was no transcripts and
00:05.360: Now, since this is an audio podcast, David mentioned the timeline index.
00:05.360: And I've been, you know, watching doing it the hard way, watching interviews and and using the markers for these long
00:05.360: And then to concert, you know, it's a music doc.
00:05.360: Yeah, and ultimately, describing this in words sounds a lot more confusing than it is when you just get in front of it.
00:05.360: No, here's my take on that.
00:05.360: And I know this because every I've only talked to one other filmmaker.
00:05.440: It must be good.
00:05.440: Is this the first feature that you're currently working on that you're doing in 10?
00:05.440: I just the con you know, tho the features that you that you can do in those other programs
00:05.440: Yeah.
00:05.440: It changes the relationship.
00:05.440: Which is really cool.
00:05.520: Right, yeah.
00:05.520: So that was, I don't know when that was, a year and a half ago, something like that.
00:05.520: That's right.
00:05.520: So you've got your A roll.
00:05.520: So, um, I'm always looking for
00:05.600: You know, it was like, God, I was so worried about that.
00:05.600: Oh, awesome.
00:05.600: Right.
00:05.680: I would be like, I something would move out of place, out of sync for a moment, and I'd be like, well, wait a second.
00:05.680: I think I started using it probably in 95 or something like that.
00:05.680: And there are things that After Effects does really well.
00:05.680: So now I have all these PNGs and I drag those into a keyword collection in Final Cat 10.
00:05.680: But the point of this show is to show you that there are people that are using this tool, that are enjoying this tool.
00:05.680: You're always going to hear people say this.
00:05.760: You're not doing the kids' soccer videos.
00:05.760: And you know, what if this scene actually moved from the back end to the front end?
00:05.760: Yeah.
00:05.840: You know, he's just sitting there on his I don't know, I think it was like an iMac or a MacBook Pro.
00:05.840: And 90% of the time, you really do want the audio to be a part of that clip.
00:05.840: Which is which is kind of exciting.
00:05.840: com.
00:05.840: It's funny how work gets in the way.
00:05.920: When I found that feature, I was like, and for the listeners, that is command option, and then you click on the clip.
00:05.920: I'm telling and I was sheepish at first.
00:05.920: I'm not, there's some things I'm doing the same as others.
00:06.000: I I first really used it just earlier this year in the spring on a shorter
00:06.000: And they're highly skilled.
00:06.000: Whatever the latest one.
00:06.000: Are you using them for anything?
00:06.000: And then I
00:06.000: Right, right, right, right.
00:06.080: Like, you know,
00:06.080: Actually, you don't even have to save the document.
00:06.080: When you pull back, it stops.
00:06.080: So, I'm very excited.
00:06.080: Not that I have anything against those people, but there is a common criticism of people that are looking at Final Cut Pro 10.
00:06.160: And the far end of the scale, and this is part of the reason why I do all of the teaching that I do.
00:06.160: And we s I started in July.
00:06.160: And once I get the lower third built exactly the way I want it in motion
00:06.160: Well, what I definitely for any projects that I'm shooting, that I'm directing
00:06.160: So that's the thing: when you find the people and you get them away from the bullies, they'll tell you, they're like, Oh, I love it.
00:06.160: Very cool.
00:06.240: I think a lot of people did.
00:06.240: And and it's it's kind of I I sometimes will tell people, you know, it's kinda like the tagline from the Matrix.
00:06.240: But a lot of times I'm writing direct quotes.
00:06.240: That like this clip connects at this point
00:06.240: And you know, frankly, I got kind of bagged by it once, and it kind of left a sour taste in my mouth.
00:06.240: And I'm looking forward to seeing how it works with that Mac Pro.
00:06.320: What causes the loyalty just out of curiosity?
00:06.320: But but I love that I can quickly search
00:06.320: So I look at it and I go, you know what?
00:06.320: And I just I just look at them and I go, Yeah, okay, go ahead.
00:06.400: David Fabello, Fabello, you got it right on the first shot.
00:06.400: Uh and then I
00:06.400: And I I have a lot of respect for those people.
00:06.400: No, I will check those out.
00:06.400: And believe me, there's going to be corrections.
00:06.400: And I think that that's what's, you know, that's.
00:06.400: I'm doing this show.
00:06.480: I mean, there was probably many more than one breakthrough, but it began at the browser level, at the organization level.
00:06.480: And they're big corporate you know
00:06.480: The initial stumbling block was just the
00:06.560: Once you've done it, you go tink, done that, and it doesn't show up as something that has to be done anymore, which is really cool.
00:06.560: And I'm still a storyteller.
00:06.640: Right, right, right.
00:06.640: So I just went through it and made markers at every key phrase.
00:06.640: I have it in the suite.
00:06.640: Yes.
00:06.640: And it will unfortunately be something that makes you say
00:06.640: Yeah, another thing that's really cool about the multicam
00:06.640: I'm good at I'm going to admit something.
00:06.720: And I love those guys.
00:06.720: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06.720: Yes, I do realize that.
00:06.720: It's a feature that's called generate assets.
00:06.720: So, what you do is you start a Photoshop document
00:06.720: And I do this for people all the time.
00:06.880: He's an interesting guy, and he's doing a long-form documentary.
00:06.880: I just tink the color board around a little bit, make that look better.
00:06.880: And I started to blog my experience with this project.
00:06.960: And he's using the tagging and the marking and the connected clips and the compound clips.
00:06.960: Yeah.
00:06.960: So I don't think he really had kept up.
00:06.960: I really need this tool.
00:06.960: No, exactly.
00:06.960: He was a great guinea pig right in the beginning.
00:07.040: I mean, I was reading through that list and I had two thoughts.
00:07.040: No, that's very, very cool.
00:07.120: Now, granted, they could switch over and say, okay, well, now we're going to be the premier training guys or the avid training guys.
00:07.120: That's Alex Gullner.
00:07.120: Right.
00:07.120: And that led me, you know
00:07.120: Yes.
00:07.120: 20 layer multicam clip
00:07.120: Thanks again for taking the time.
00:07.200: And I didn't know David before this, obviously.
00:07.200: I listened to the Crossing the 180 podcast.
00:07.200: And then his questions were just like, okay, can we get it to resolve where we think we're gonna
00:07.280: So
00:07.280: Which one is he here?
00:07.280: I I hate I hate those people.
00:07.280: It really helps if people go and leave comments.
00:07.360: And even then layers may not even be quite right anymore.
00:07.360: And that was another like aha moment of like, oh, I now understand that parent child.
00:07.360: And frankly, it's really the only thing that makes me kind of miss
00:07.360: And I you know, and I wish I had the freedom on every project.
00:07.440: I think the only people that were blindly loyal to Final Cut 10 in the very beginning.
00:07.440: I could change where the clip connects.
00:07.440: Or it sounds like you're really just cutting pictures together.
00:07.440: And so the message there is being: you know, you don't expect
00:07.440: Yeah.
00:07.520: They're all hammers.
00:07.520: No, no, exactly.
00:07.520: So so all that argument that like
00:07.520: And so what is going in your primary
00:07.520: Yeah, yeah, look for those.
00:07.520: Later.
00:07.600: And I use it all the time in the.
00:07.600: You can search for keywords, you can search for markers, you can search
00:07.600: They're going to be talking.
00:07.600: And now all of a sudden you're realizing, you know, oh, I guess that's not a big
00:07.600: And she's got the leather reins, you know, that you
00:07.680: Oh, but it wasn't as bad as you think.
00:07.680: You know, I did a lecture here in San Francisco a few months ago.
00:07.680: And we're ver we've been very accustomed.
00:07.680: And I'm putting the works and all out there.
00:07.680: Some of us are more vocal than others.
00:07.680: And it's amazing.
00:07.760: It's just I mean, I had to cut
00:07.760: And I read, I would have to send it to you.
00:07.760: And I think honestly, I think that in the next couple of months
00:07.840: And so that's really kind of what this conversation is about.
00:07.840: Right, right, right.
00:07.840: You just have to click off the layer.
00:07.920: Don't get me wrong.
00:07.920: Those are things that I do
00:08.000: And within minutes, I thought, you know what?
00:08.000: And that is a very good question.
00:08.000: Gotcha.
00:08.000: And then I think one of my breakthrough moments was I did a 20-camera music video with it.
00:08.000: And yet.
00:08.000: It's just any time I sit down and work with tracks again
00:08.000: I look forward to it.
00:08.080: So this is my, it's a documentary feature about a singer-songwriter.
00:08.080: But I think the next breakthrough there was like
00:08.160: And two, yeah, the same as you.
00:08.160: You just dive right in and fix it.
00:08.240: So
00:08.240: If you look back at the history of its release on the day it was released in July of 2011,
00:08.240: They're great guys, too.
00:08.240: And now the feature.
00:08.240: But that being said, I know you can group.
00:08.240: Now
00:08.240: I'm just now noticing camera two is really kind of blue.
00:08.240: But I don't always have that luxury.
00:08.240: There's some things I'm not, you know, let's have a conversation.
00:08.320: Although, I will admit
00:08.320: Yeah, there's two sides to the coin.
00:08.320: But I do understand where you are, and as a matter of fact, that's exactly what happened to me.
00:08.320: So
00:08.400: You know, so it wasn't
00:08.400: And when I realize how well it does those things, I realize how
00:08.400: Like, what?
00:08.400: The problem is and this is a really interesting point that somebody brought up and I it may have been on the show already.
00:08.400: And I will be the first to admit, Final Cut ten is probably the not the right tool today.
00:08.480: I'm not like that.
00:08.480: And there's some things that Motion does very well.
00:08.480: I see where you're going.
00:08.560: So let me ask you this.
00:08.560: I did look at it when it came out initially for about five minutes.
00:08.560: I believe if I can double check my notes here, I th
00:08.560: Coincidentally, when I got back from the Sundance
00:08.560: I do realize that.
00:08.560: I want to talk to real users.
00:08.640: It's just, you know
00:08.640: I'm not.
00:08.640: I I think of them as like as bundles.
00:08.720: But
00:08.720: I think the reason for doing this show is that I'm kind of sick and tired of all of the bullies.
00:08.720: And then also data-fobello.
00:08.800: I I wish I had that skill.
00:08.800: It's a match frame dissolve.
00:08.800: I'm still just a strong storyteller.
00:08.880: What type of features are you working on?
00:08.880: I think the embedded audio metaphor, if you will.
00:08.880: But when you open up Conca Pro, when you when you start to really work with it, especially in that time line,
00:08.880: If you get stuck on something,
00:08.960: Like 99.
00:08.960: Well, there are levels of understanding with everything.
00:08.960: Or somebody's going to go, Oh, can we put that word on the next line?
00:08.960: Send me a message.
00:09.040: Was it your choice to do this dock on ten?
00:09.120: Exactly.
00:09.120: Like edit, you know
00:09.200: Anyway, so I've been working on it since July.
00:09.200: Yeah, thank you.
00:09.280: So you're not y you're not like a big motion graphics after effects guy then?
00:09.280: And again, that's because, like I say, I have a lot of keyframes invested in After Effects.
00:09.280: png, number three.
00:09.360: So I was like, Oh, that'd be cool.
00:09.360: But it was a decision I made you know, where with
00:09.360: The Southern Hemisphere.
00:09.360: Yeah.
00:09.360: No, I will say that.
00:09.440: And it's been those kind of creative like
00:09.440: This is crap.
00:09.440: That's a good eye, though.
00:09.520: He was curious about it too, and I I told him about my experience with it.
00:09.520: Do you do you find yourself let me ask you, do you find yourself
00:09.600: What history do you have with other systems?
00:09.600: And I've actually been editing on Final Cut Pro.
00:09.600: Okay, so now you said something really good there.
00:09.600: I for me to really learn something, I have to get to the
00:09.680: And I had never
00:09.680: And in the lower left-hand corner of your window, there's a little thing.
00:09.680: No, and that's where I and that's when I mentioned like thinking of it
00:09.760: Okay, first shot.
00:09.760: I think this year, two thousand and
00:09.760: So I like to say I have a lot of.
00:09.840: What would happen to the story there?
00:09.920: I really
00:10.000: Keep talking.
00:10.080: So he's using the micro the built-in microphone, and I apologize for that.
00:10.080: 9.
00:10.080: And it gave me a groundwork to, you know, to
00:10.080: One.
00:10.240: But I do know how to do it.
00:10.240: 99, 2000.
00:10.240: We had Mark on Digital Cinema Cafe.
00:10.240: This is stupid.
00:10.320: Is that what you said?
00:10.320: Yeah, yeah.
00:10.320: First of all, it's important to know that I've been using
00:10.320: And I've
00:10.400: This is not a pro, rah rah
00:10.480: But I
00:10.560: Just like, give me.
00:10.560: I mean, everybody says, you know, well, it's so expensive to do that.
00:10.560: Really enjoyed it.
00:10.640: I think that's something that escapes people sometimes when they're just like.
00:10.640: png, and out in the finder right next to where the
00:10.640: I'm trying to avoid
00:10.720: Then there's the people that, you know, kind of learn and fumble and get sort of a
00:10.720: It's just um things just go where
00:10.800: I read an article.
00:10.880: This show's going to be.
00:10.880: David, thanks for doing this.
00:10.880: And so he was like.
00:10.880: And then I go back to my cut, my line cut.
00:10.880: And what that blog is, it's a workflow blog.
00:11.120: Yes.
00:11.120: Pixelmater?
00:11.120: I splatter them out all over my timeline.
00:11.200: So
00:11.200: So I mean maybe it'll be computers
00:11.200: Right.
00:11.200: Right, right, right.
00:11.200: This isn't the way an editor is supposed to work.
00:11.200: But
00:11.280: It's just like, oh, there, it's done.
00:11.360: Okay, so you hinted.
00:11.360: Thanks for everything.
00:11.520: Yeah.
00:11.680: com.
00:11.840: And I mean,
00:11.920: So, anyway, we're going to go to this interview and I.
00:11.920: or blah, blah, blah.
00:11.920: But
00:12.000: You know, there are people that can like.
00:12.080: Because I may.
00:12.160: And by the way, David, just so you know.
00:12.240: Why is a compound clip in Final Cut 10 a big deal?
00:12.240: And and yet and yet here's the irony of it.
00:12.320: So I'm gonna I'll uh
00:12.320: You had a breakthrough.
00:12.480: Welcome.
00:12.560: And
00:12.640: What other systems have you worked on?
00:12.720: I think of them as
00:12.800: I don't have to worry about lassoing.
00:12.880: Or were
00:12.960: So you go back into
00:13.120: We're so used to having
00:13.200: I told him where I
00:13.280: I think it looks like a.
00:13.440: You can't really
00:14.000: And that
00:14.080: And I'm just
00:14.400: .